M3z
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Posts posted by M3z
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-Alpha only (the other incarnates add nothing to the game, barrier incarnate adds nothing to the game)
-Remove jump packs (only increases blaster/corr/def dominance of the zone due to lack of slows/cc/actual mezes that last longer than a couple seconds etc) Also continues to incentives passive playstyles which given the lack of slows/ccs makes it impossible to fight these people.
-Disable all insps that are not tier 1 (this option already exists in arena so maybe that effect can be transfered over?)
-Remove all NPC's or severely nerf arachnos, there is a huge disparity in power between arachnos/longbow, Arachnos stun/hold for 4-6 seconds (I think they use PVE values), but the biggest issue NPC's create is they make MMs unplayable in the zone. This isn't a matter of "position yourself better" or "just avoid the NPCs", it's just unplayable in a game that demands high amount of movement(enemies hide in mobs, or you chase and pets aggro a mob). If you are a MM and you play on hero side (against arachnos) the boss level spiders AOE one shot your pets.
Basically everything @Silent Method2was saying, if anyone wants me to elaborate on why all incarnates except alpha should be removed from zone I can.
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Zone pvp might just be playable again.
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10 minutes ago, Hew said:
@M3z see above. You might want to see what you can do with the extra focus stack.
@Replacementthank you for repeating this in a short form. 🙂
I've been on test with a min/max build, extra focus stack doesn't equal to essentially not critting at all on your 2 biggest attacks (if someone tries to mention to me the 28% crit damage please just stop lol). Energy transfer not critting, makes sense to me, total focus only critting 28%, makes no sense. I like the energy focus mechanic but yeah still not understanding not getting crits on crit based ATs.
Dev blow/GPB both full crit, both have higher base damage. Again didn't someone pylon test this and it ranked 18/20?
TF critting might be overkill for how you play, but it isn't for what I do.
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1 minute ago, Hew said:
Does pgb + insight (which is an EXTREMELY finicky thing to compare to... when the moon is blue and two rabbits are at the feet of the hill wearing an orange raincoat each) do more than 1200 damage? Just curious. Because that is 1200 damage right there, the vast majority of which is energy damage.
How is gpb+insight finicky, what does that mean lol. That it's not easy to generate insight? Because it definitely is and it definitely does way more than 1200 lmao.
Rad melee's devastating blow 222 base damage (20 more than total focus) and fully crits, greater psi blade+insight is 300+ base damage and fully crits.
I'm just trying to find the logic here. Didn't someone just pylon test this set and it ranks 18 out of 20? lol
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Just now, ABlueThingy said:
TF crits. We were talking about ET.
ET doesn't crit(for damage) because historically the original Devs didn't let any melee attack crit for more damage then an assassin strike. Speculatively because they were trying to keep Assassin Strikes uniquely damaging as that kind of is all they do. But I'm just reiterating what Capt. Powerhouse said.
Like he said, there is one exception and it's Crushing Uppercut and it can't do that trick unconditionally.
I guess that leaves room for us to argue that ET could be an exception to the rule too as long as it was conditional? I always liked the idea of spending more HP to do more damage.
Proof of TF crits:
Side note: What is that other effect? The "Massive bonus to critical hit chance" thing?
Yeah I never mentioned ET, why doesn't TF fully crit, when something like greater psi blade+insight crits? This set doesn't do the burst of psi melee and probably doesn't do half the DPS of katana, so why doesn't TF crit lol.
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soooo why does TF not crit again?
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Just now, Infinitum said:
What AT?
stalker
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7 minutes ago, Infinitum said:
Yes ive gotten 1100+ on TF and 1400+ on ET on my fire EM tank.
the damage number i quoted for greater psi blade was in pvp, im sure i can double/triple that number in pve
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First off this makes energy melee WAAAAY better than its current iteration. That said, is there a solid reason why total focus doesn't full crit lol? @Powerhouse I can sort of understand why energy transfer doesn't crit given now you can cut the animation down and its high base damage but shouldn't total focus do a full crit?
Can TF+ET even do anywhere close to the damage of an insight greater psi blade crit? I've done over 1400 before, with a 2.5 second cast. You can argue you need to get insight to do large damage (greater psi blade crits without insight damage still does huge numbers) but you also still need to total focus first before getting the fast ET animation.
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3 things:
1. Just reduce ET animation cast time to its original cast time. I don't want energy assault changes or none of that. I doubt this set can compete with psi melee in ST even if we revert it completely to i12.
2. Are MMs gonna get any help soon or not? LMAO I get it that blasters are Leandro's favorite AT but cmon mercs have been god awful for more than a decade. And from what I've read a lot of MM players(NOT ALL) have to solo because they get excluded or cant compete in late game content(not saying it's not possible, there are just a lot of problems with this AT in general).
3. Can we get new arena maps? The community voted on them almost a year ago and we were told "they are easy to implement". If they aren't then that's fine. But if it doesn't take a coder that long to put 4 walls around a pre existing map and add 2 spawns then what's the hold up. This would be so huge for us, just having anywhere new to play. We've been playing on the same maps since pvp started basically.
I get it you guys are volunteers so obviously these are not demands and you can do whatever you want. But just wanted to throw these out here and let it be known what some of the concerns these communities have.
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2 minutes ago, HelBlaiz said:
That leaves anyone curious to TRY pvp with the task of either catching up to the veterans, gearwise, or failing to have any impact whatsoever due to lack of build. One regular pvper with a completed build vs another regular pvper with a completed build might come down to skill, but if someone shows up with SOs just to see what the deal is, I doubt they'd see it that way. THAT, combined with combative individuals (not competitive) who waste newbies because they can are why I don't have much interest to try PvP.
Someone mentioned getting a toon to 50 with a full build is more than possible in one day. They mentioned it like that was super easy, barely an inconvenience, but that is one whole day devoted to making a character to TRY pvp. If the character turns out to be hot garbage, then another day has to be spent making a new character and/or a completely new set of IOs.
It might be easier than on live, but that is too much commitment of time/resources just to hang out with the cordial, competitive crowd without feeling like fodder.
In other MMOs yes absolutely.
In this game it takes 1-2 days (like I mentioned in a previous post) not that long.
I'm not trying to defend how this games gear system works or how screwed up it is to go to a zone and 80-90% of builds are going to be bed. I much prefer i12 style pvp that was using the same rules as pve.
And if you wanted to find out if a build you are interested in is good or not, you can just ask the homecoming pvp discord or me and we can tell you where a build is good where or if at all (zones, 1v1, small teams, 8v8s etc).
Also, there are communities specifically built for new players (SMOL KB: https://discord.gg/PMdDUyN) so if you are interested in pvp but may not have the perfect build, this is a good place to play.
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12 minutes ago, Lines said:
Since it got bought up, I'm trying to remember how unranked PvP worked on SWTOR. Does everyone get bolstered to more or less the same stats and effectiveness or something like that? Or did gear matter?
From what I remember, you needed to get the weeklies/dailies to get the proper gear. I think the gear had a stat in it that was just for pvp. But it was pretty easy to get all the gear, I think I remember it took 2 weeks or something. Not that bad considering how long it takes to get good gear in a game like WoW (months).
Doesn't beat CoH though lol. I can farm a character, farm the resources, get all the accolades in 1-2 days at most(there are others who are WAY faster than me too).
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2 hours ago, Chris24601 said:
To expand on my previous point about PvP being generally unpopular across ALL MMO's (i.e. fewer than 5% seem to willingly engage with it) is that part of this is that ANY level/gear-based game is generally horrible for PvP.
When you look at the popular PvP platforms they consistently involve player-controlled avatars of roughly equal ability (some systems have options with strengths/weaknesses, i.e. fragile speedster/mighty glacier/jack of all stats) and, if there are power-ups they are things gained inside the PvP environment via the skill of the player.
This is PvP as sport where your actual skill matters and that IS immensely popular as a genre.
MMO PvP is who can get to max level and put together the best PvP-gear ... then going after people who are not so equipped as the tab-based RNG combat system does the work. There's no skill at all beyond your ability to grind content to get the best gear to let you dominate others.
THAT'S why its never been popular in any traditional (i.e. level/gear-based progression with tab-targeting RNG combat) MMO.
I agree that in general MMO pvp is not popular.
That said, MMO pvp doesn't boil down to gear and tab-based RNG (atleast the MMO pvp ive played: SWTOR, WOW, Age of Conan, CoH), gear is a barrier of entry for MMO pvp but most people who are serious about pvp have min/max builds (this limits peoples interest) meaning the serious people are on equal footing and people must battle it out using game mechanics/skill etc etc. To say there's no skill beyond your ability to grind gear is just wrong. In pay2win games I'm sure that's the case but not in the MMOs I've played. If it just came down to gear I would've stopped playing A LONG time ago.
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7 minutes ago, DrBasics said:
The problem that is present here is a problem that all the communities suffer from; ignorance.
Many ignorant people (read: majority that are uninformed of PVP) will simply associate the toxic/bad behavior of Zone (or wherever it is present) PVP and Arena PVP. They see no difference between the two.
The same way the ignorant (read: majority that are uninformed of RP) will associate every RP'er with being ERP, herp-derp Goldshire in World of Warcraft and/or "I put on my robe and wizard hat". And in my personal (anecdotal) experience, the people who troll RP'ers the most are of the PVP community. (keep in mind that I am not chastising anyone here)
So the UNFORTUNATE task you face is breaking the stigma associated with ALL pvp'ers, despite sectors that have nothing to do with you.
I have tons of VODs on my youtube channel that show what arena pvp is like if people are curious. But yeah I agree with you, hence why I'm here explaining the differences. I'm used to it at this point because much of the CoH community has been pretty hostile to the community which was also stoked by devs like Castle as well which was really unfair given how large the organized pvp community was at one point (isn't that supposed to be good for a game?).
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These changes are really good, hopefully the HC team takes them seriously, I especially like your suggestions for mercs.
The movement speed buff and stance changes would be pretty ground breaking for MMs in pvp. The biggest weakness of MMs in the current meta is their lack of movespeed, without any way to lock opponents down anymore because of the mez system that's in place MMs are basically useless unless they are speedboosted up.
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22 minutes ago, FoulVileTerror said:
One of the other points which seems to show up a bit in this thread, but hasn't been explicitly stated:
It sounds like some players would try PvP if PvPers did a better job of policing their own community when it comes to toxicity.
Not saying that's necessarily fair or reasonable (but maybe it is; requires more thought, at least), but I'm definitely getting the impression that some players here feel that way.
Am I way off the mark?
As far as the arena scene is concerned we police bad behavior, there really isn't much in the way of trash talk unless it's among the vet players but as far as trash talk towards new players or farming new players etc. we don't really tolerate it.
Can't speak for zones since I don't go there much but I know a lot of the troublemakers get banned but overall zones are pretty toxic in terms of how people play (this is a given, zones are the wild west of pvp) and trashtalk. That said it makes it fun as long as you don't take it seriously (I like to go to zones just to watch the trash talk sometimes lol).
People just gotta remember there are two pvp scenes happening on homecoming, the arena scene is pretty chill compared to zones.
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3 hours ago, HoundsTooth said:
I want to try PvP, especially 1v1 or small teams in the arena, but barriers to entry are too high. It seems like you need a really optimized build. I’m a casual player and I have a hard enough time affording purple/PvP/winter IO’s. I don’t want to invest the time into farming or playing the market to afford a good build when I might not even like PvP. If there was an active PvP community on the test server,
I would join.
Indomitable pvp scene is a continuation of the live 'test pvp scene' and it's active with 4 vet teams and around 3-4 new teams. Not as many as the heydays of i12 but been stable for the most part.
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Just revert ET animation and maybe lower TF animation by .5 seconds or something.
Don't give the set more AOE, don't make the set like energy assault for doms where you have to have some special energized circumstance to do a short ET animation.
Seriously, just revert the ET animation. Would love to have another somewhat viable melee set in pvp other than super strength and psi melee lol.
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Just to clarify, there are no meaningful "exploits" that are going to do much for anyone, unless you mean base tp'ing in zones or something (zones are just not that fun in general IMO). And if you're talking about animation cancelling you don't NEED to know animation cancelling. I win matches all the time without using a single animation cancel.
PvP is mostly about having a viable build depending for the format you're trying playing in. There's a lot of skill, knowledge and coordination that goes into pvp but if you're just starting out having a good build and showing up to Smol KBs is a great place to start, you can develop the other skills later.
If someone wants builds or has questions Homecoming PvP discord is friendly and answers everyone's question. The Homecoming arena pvp scene is a continuation of the live test pvp scene which has been doing competitive SG vs SG matches since PvP started(for those of you who aren't aware how long competitive pvp scene has been around!).
If you are new and want a casual pvp environment SMOL KB was made to get new people/PVErs into 8v8 arena pvp
Discord link here: https://discord.gg/PMdDUyN
If that doesn't interest you and you know what you're doing or just want min/max build advice or want serious 8v8s check out Homecoming PvP
Discord link here: https://discord.gg/ACfXPxK
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Looks good!
We've been doing something similar in the PvP community where we check spike damage, kills, evasion, heals, how many attacks someone used, how often people are locked etc etc.
Here's an example
Definitely made things a lot more interesting for me, I love looking at stats
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uh oh... a pvp thread...
But seriously though @Croax or anyone who has any questions(for instance Croax you said you didn't know what was going on with that psy build) about pvp can message me here or on discord M3z#1843, I can help explain mechanics, why builds are made a certain way etc etc zone build/arena/small teams advice anything but fightclub really (I don't know much about FC but there are others in the community who do)
I'm sad I never got to make the rest of the videos I had planned that were going to explain pvp mechanics(DR curves, animation based damage etc), build orientation and meta ATs.
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18 hours ago, Tyrannical said:
Its far more balanced than the other servers. 😏
My point isn't that this server is more or less balanced than others. My point is if we can go roll a titan weapon scrapper and go 2 shot an AV why should we be concerned with this set. It's gonna be strong sure but not game breaking.
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Should implement it, let's not pretend this game is balanced lol. Would love to pvp with ill.
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4 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:
Taking what I say out of context I see. I love PvP, good quality pvp in a game built for it. CoH does not have this in any semblance. There is just too wide a gap between build power possible to consider it balanced or viable. And yes those who pvp here who basically exist only to gank, grief, harass, and have no actual interest in playing pvp on a pvp centric game are indeed seen even in pvp mmo gamer circles as subhuman trash.
I still to this day often for a pvp itch go play Guild Wars 1 and do random arena team pvp because it is always different, fun, and well matched. Were even a squishy elemntalist can with the right melee skills stand against a warrior primary long enough to slip in a shock touch to stun and KD them and finish them off while deflecting attacks with parry skills. Not to mention a game where gear all has the same stats basically so no one has any gear score advantage.
IMO the coh servers out there that give max level and all possible character upgrades at creation are the only good pvp CoH servers, because only in such a variant can every one be entering PvP on remotely equal footing, and even then because of the additional power factor caused by certain power pairings, pvp just cant be called well balanced nor designed in CoH. Something the devs themselves felt for years after it got forced into creation.
PvPers in CoH literally are composed of meta gamers with top tier builds afking at key ambush sites to try and gank the random wanderer. Usually in groups because they are too cowardly to wander the zones alone. And such a minority of the least valued players in the greater coh community that thankfully its very unlikely the HC team will ever devote any energy to them with the few resources they have.
And you can call me Berk, Mr. holocaust fan. Like serious you have a name that just cries I love the Council and 5th Column.
Imagine feeling this strongly about something you have no clue about
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Focused Feedback: PvP Updates
in [Open Beta] Focused Feedback
Posted
GOAT patch notes, thank you guys!