Cyclone Jack

Feedback has been given, and much of it has been ignored. The fact is, you can't really balance an AoE Sleep as a L2 power. There is a reason almost every other set has an AoE Immobilize there. It gives players almost immediate access to some form of AoE control that is still balanced even though its perma right out of the box. You *cannot* balance an AoE Sleep with an 8s recharge, because either the Sleep would be so short as to be useless, which is what we saw in Beta 2, or the Sleep starts out perma, just like the Immobilize, which would make leveling beyond trivial (ie: overpowered). The sets that don't have a Tier 3 Immobilize have a 3rd single-target attack or mez, such as Levitate or Deceive, but they seem unwilling to go this route as well, because they don't want to make any meaningful changes to the set. For example, Beanbag would be fitting here.

* Tranq is good. There is nothing wrong with a L1 Sleep and this adds additional debuffs, allowing it to be useful vs Boss and higher mobs. * Cryo Freeze Ray is your standard single target hold; pretty straightforward. * Liquid Nitrogen. An 8 second cooldown AoE skill that sets up Containment and is also good with Domination. This fixes one of the main reasons the current set fails, IMO, and that's having a solid, spammable 3rd ability that works with both Containment and Domination. This also gives the set -KB, which pairs well with the higher tier powers. Interesting choice on no damage, and I think that makes this Immob quite unique and interesting. So the Slow debuff would be auto hit, while the Immob would require the ToHit check? I like it. * Sophoric is interesting. Making it location allows it to work exceptionally well as an area denial power, such as when fighting in a tight area with multiple groups nearby where a stray shot could cause aggro. It opens up additional tactical options, which is always good, and something I think needs to be looked into more with other sets. * Cloaking Device. LotG mule and move on, not much more to say about self-only Stealth powers. Sometimes you just want a one-slot wonder. 🙂 * Flash Bang is pretty straightforward. Giving it damage is good since Liquid Nitrogen doesn't have any, and you don't want too many non-damage powers, even if the set has a high focus on Sleeps. * Smoke Canister is still a solid power and, like you said, works really well when you can keep enemies within the AoEs. * Tear Gas change is great because it mimics the other smoke-like powers by being a pulsing control. This helps give the set a mechanical theme as well as a conceptual one and, IMO, really ties things together. * Tri-Cannon pet is a pet. It does pet things. 🙂 Overall pretty solid iteration. Having 3 pseudo-pet controls that are all mechanically the same really ties things together and gives the set a very unique identity that stands out. Now, I do want to say that while I still don't think the set needs an AoE Immobilize, the -KB that this supplies is really a huge boon to the set. Again, not really *needed*, but very helpful. Technically, the current Liquid Nitrogen skill would work if it weren't for the fact that has like a 90s recharge, and it doesn't help with KB. The key here is that this version has an 8 second cooldown, and is usable every fight, and even multiple times a fight if needed, and works with both Containment and Domination. Basically, the 1st 3 abilities, of any set, need to be usable multiple fights a fight. These are the foundation of the set, and the backbone of the leveling experience.

Ugh, I wish this set didn't feel so horrible to level. Its like you're going out of your way to make the clunkiest set to level, that eventually turns into something decent once you get it fully slotted, if you can slog through it. I love the concept, but the execution is just...not great. I'm not sure what else I can say, as it seems that this experiment is going to go through as is. Hopefully it is well-received, but I'll be passing on it initially. Maybe we'll see some future patches that fix things up once the HC team are able to see how it performs over time.

Glad to see something affect it. I never got anything to proc the Immobilize with the sets I tested. I'm guessing that Ice isn't wet enough, or is too readily available, and it has to specifically be water-based.

This is much better. While I didn't mind the weird wraparound thing, it was a little goofy. 😂

It does not. I tested it. And you are correct, giving a Hold a chance to also Immobilize on a Knockdown patch would be a joke. Honestly, I have no idea what they're trying to. Typically, any power set that has a "Does X with Y" has a way to do both X and Y. This appears to be relying on specific powers from other power sets, such as Cold Domination or Icy Assault, except none of those interact with this either. Or, even worse, it is relying on powers only available to non Controllers/Dominators, such as Water Blast specifically. Hopefully, they simply forgot to flag all of the Cold/Ice powers as causing the 'wet' condition.

Define "wet", because none of the Ice or Water based power sets mention wet in their powers. Tested alongside: Cold Domination: Infrigidate, Benumb, Sleet, Heat Loss Icy Assault: All Powers Nothing seemed to interact with it.

This is my 1st time messing with minipets now that I know the freebies menu is a thing 🙂 Not sure if this is a known issue or not, but the Pet: Mini Snow Beast is sorted as if it were named Snow Beast instead of Mini Snow Beast. (Between Spirit Panther and Vanguard MVAS)

The changes the power try is *AMAZING* 😍 Jet pack at level 2 with the pop-up is a nice touch. Also, getting Walk on the tray at L2 is fun. Grabbed the Hero Corp Insider exploration badge and got this popup: "P41648053"

It worked for John Wick, so why not. 🤣

I'd love to see some Lore-based Masterminds. I think it would be awesome to run around with some Clockwork, Winter Lords, Sky Raiders, or Soldiers of Rularuu, especially since we have the Prismatic costumes. A Ranged DPS set based on the IDF Heavy Trooper Backpack would be pretty awesome as well. And a concept that I toyed with way back on live was a PPD EAT (before VEATS were a thing) that had different "Departments" like Officer (generalist/mastermind), SWAT (debuff/defense), Ghost (ranged stalker), Psi-Division (reverse dominator), Awakened (formless Kheldian), Powered Armor Division (ranged/melee with armors). They'd have stories that expanded upon the low-to-mid level enemy groups (Skulls, Hellions, Outcasts, Trolls, Family) and delve much deeper into the Superadine chain, while also tackling the entire concept of how a "human" police force even works in a city full of superheroes and super-powered villains.

I start Hero-side, hit up P2W, beat up Hellion Gunners for a few minutes until I hit L5, then run to King's Row, finally level up, pick up a Police Band Radio, and start running missions. Once I hit 22, I IO out, then I might look at running Flashback for some merits/badges if I want to grab some of the special ATOs. I also tag along with some RL friends when they're on. At some point during all of that I'll typically hit Pocket D, talk to Null the Gull on the truck, and change my alignment to Vigilante or Rogue so I can hop back and forth depend on the group I'm playing with.

I was all about Blasters back then, especially my Ice/Ice blaster. It was the perfect pairing for me, and I created the perfect build for me (186% Recharge). I had more hours on that one character than all of my other characters combined, by far. This time around, while I did remake the character, I decided to shelve them and try out a variety of other characters. I have found that I've really been enjoying Controllers and, to a lesser extent, Dominators. I think Dominators would pair up perfectly with me, but the End use is just through the roof; though I'm still working a few of them up towards Perma-Dom to see if that fixes things.

That's a really good idea that would add to a variety of character themes based around the same set. You could have the gun version, the grenade version, and the power armor version. 3 different animation sets would really open up to a wide variety of character concepts. And if you use the grenade/power armor version you'd still select the weapon during creation, but it just wouldn't draw the weapon in combat.

Yeah, I figured it was something there that couldn't really be done normally, which is why I suggested a possible micro-root, which would "interrupt" the movement vector (maybe even a .25s Hold). And who knows, maybe HC and the other servers have already looked into that and found that it didn't make a difference. And like you said, it's not a huge deal; and sometimes adds to the charm watching a Freakshow "stumble" at full speed down a hallway. 😄

One thing that has always kinda bugged me about Stun/Disorient is that it often doesn't seem to affect enemy movement speed for a second or two. Its like they have to reach their queued destination before the movement aspect of Stun fully takes effect. I'm wondering if it would be possible to add a -100% movement or something for 0.25s (perhaps a hidden 0.25s Immobilize?) at the beginning of each Stun, or is this something that's sort of "baked in" to enemy behavior and all that. Just a thought I had when running with a friend last night. 😄

Then I'd never qualify, because my teammates are my pets. 😜🤣 I couldn't care less about the reward; in fact, remove the reward and see how many people still want this as is. I care about sending a cohesive message to new players; you know, the entire purpose of this feature. This does not match what is in Character Creation, nor does it help inform new players about the diversity of the ATs. In fact, it does the opposite by reducing basic ATs to a single role. That is my problem with it.

Yeah, that's my fear, too. 😉😜🤣 At the end of the day, HC will do what HC wants to do. I've left my feedback and that's all any of us can really do. I'm not gonna be mad or rage quit or throw my virtual hands up into the air and declare that "I don't want to live on this planet anymore." if this goes through as is. I'd be a little disappointed at best, then go back to playing the game with my friends and our dozens upon dozens of alts. 😄

And exactly how is that going to help new players understand Archetype roles when it is not a representation of the game? And I quote:

So Widows can fill Melee OR Control, but Corruptors can ONLY fill Ranged Damage, and Defenders can ONLY fill Support? Perfectly Balanced. Also, when pertaining to this feature, its not an OR, its an AND. A Widow fulfils Melee, Ranged, AND Control. Corruptors ONLY fulfil Ranged.

So a short duration AoE Stun and a moderate duration Cone Stun with a single target Hold and Immobilize is enough for it to fill the Control slot? While I will agree that it at least has some control, is a Warshade's Control so much better than a Corruptors ability for Support? Or a Defenders ability for Ranged Damage? Or an Ice/Ice/Ice Blaster's ability for Control? Oh, but you say, we're talking about a broad overview of the AT, not individual powers, right? Enter the Fortunata. If we're talking about a broad overview of the AT, is it OK to give the Widow a Control Role, when only one powerset has any controls? So if you bring a Night Widow onto the team, a character with literally zero control powers, magically the Control Role is fulfilled? Literally every other AT has access to more controls than a Night Widow, including a Sentinel, but sure, ya lets call them a Controller, because they are Epic! Must fill 3 roles!!! Heck, the fact that Soldiers and Widows fill the Support Role (and are even listed as Support in Character Creation) boggles my mind, because outside of a debuff or two, the only real support they have is a built in Leadership pool. If that is what's considered Support, three toggles that are accessible by every character in the game, while Corruptors are not, then there's a fundamental problem with this design.

And that's the problem. Basic ATs can, and do, fill multiple roles. The game even says so during Character Creation. On top of that, they somehow force *EATs into precisely 3 roles, even if it doesn't make any sense. A Warshade and Widow are Control? Really? A Warshade offers no more control than some of the Melee sets, while a Night Widow has literally 0 (zero) control abilities. Even Character Creation says: Arachnos Widow: Crowd Control: 2. So a Corruptor, which has a Support of 8 and Ranged Damage of 7 can only fill the Ranged Damage Role (because Scourge), whereas a Widow with a Control of 2, the lowest of any of the ATs (tied only with Sentinels), can fill the Control Role. "But!" You say, "The Fortunata has controls!" And I respond: So do Blasters, Corruptors, Defenders, Stalkers, Scrappers, and Tankers. In fact, a Blaster, Corruptor, and Defender are able to have up to 4 (four) single target holds on the same character, while also having access additional controls. No, the reason they made Warshades and Widows Control is because someone said "They must fill 3 roles because *EATs are Epic!" Forgetting that Epic only means that they are tied to the story of world in a much greater way than that of the basic ATs. Not that they are better, more powerful, or more diverse.

Would it be possible to revert Smoke Grenade back to what it was, and just swap its tier with Cloaking Device? I feel that trying to balance Smoke Grenade as a L2 power ended up making the power objectively worse and all but useless in those low levels (which is probably why we don't see low-level AoE Sleeps).

Maybe add some extra dialog to the Trainers when the player reaches level 20 to seek out the University and talk to the person who starts that arc, if they haven't done so already. Additionally, even though Twinshot (and the evil doctor villain-side who I can't think of for the life of me) automatically becomes a contact at L5, maybe add a small line of dialogue to the Origin/Starting Contacts once the player reaches level 5 that also points them to Twinshot. Currently, these contacts give you a second contact that isn't Twinshot, and its up to the player to choose where to go; but having them mention that Twinshot is a recommended contact for new players, since her Arc sends you through the zone to all of the important key locations, I think could be a good idea.

As has been stated numerous times throughout the thread, just give a bonus for having a variety of ATs in the group. Making arbitrary roles will not inform players about the diversity of the archetypes as much as just teaming with them. If a new player gets a different combination of ATs for Posi 1, Posi 2, and Synapse, they will quickly learn that the ATs are much more diverse than your typical MMO, and that ATs can fill more than one role.