Kaballah

in no particular order - bonfire - earthquake - phantom army - ice slick - various AOE stuns - and of course, seeds all of these single powers, just among explicit control powers are dramatically more relevant and useful than Mass Confusion.

this is such a meaningless value for developed characters, there are dozens of builds for essentially all ATs that can trivialize content. every well-made controller or dominator reaches this point, every tank and brute, most stalkers and scrappers and sentinels, most masterminds, many defender/corruptors, many blasters

Not interested in promoting a wildly unpopular nerf of Seeds. A straight, simple buff of Mind Control's recharge has been needed since Live and would be well-received, and if it proves to be *FINGERQUOTE* TOO POWERFUL *FINGERQUOTE* in testing well gosh I guess it could be reverted.

seems like this would be a lot less data to track/less to expect of the playerbase than tracking every single player's rejection of it individually

A more thoughtful overhaul of the Mind Control set would be nice but I'm shooting for something small, simple and immediate. This single change would be a tremendous help for the set, it's needed this since Live.

Have been discussing this a bit in the Controller subforum, it is just crazy that the base recharge of Mind Control's Mass Confusion is 4 minutes vs. Seeds of Confusion's base recharge of 60 seconds. The whole paradigm of the Tier 9 4 minute "BIG MOVE" has been dismantled with the reduction in cooldown of nuke powers in all sets. The overall utility of Mind Control isn't great but reducing the recharge of Mass Confusion to parity with Seeds would be a good start. Electric Control's Synaptic Overload (60 second cooldown) isn't very good by comparison either.

Jumps take way, way too long to happen in any sort of team situation, I just don't find it terribly useful compared to a 1-target confuse with an eventual cooldown of under 3 seconds. Especially with the purple confuse set's contagious confusion piece. Jump time should be drastically reduced, or jumps should fork and each go to two targets to get it more in line with having a 60 second base cooldown. 3 jumps = 15 eventual targets: would be totally fine for me if this excluded the contagious confuse piece's effect, who cares it's a good power at that point.

if anything this power should have an even shorter recharge, in a fast team it is essentially a 1-target confuse with a very long recharge.

the chain takes around 1.5 seconds for each jump, and unless you are just going to wait 15+ seconds for it to land on every target, a cone or AOE are enormously better.

if it did a pull instead of a repel it would be way more usable. same for several repel-based powers tbh.

Actually on this note, Ice Control has Arctic Air, an autohit confuse toggle, although it does have other things going on that make it differently powerful from Seeds (not worse, but different)

One of them will be popular, easy to implement and easy to revert, the other would be nerfing plant control.

Really not here to talk about nerfing Plant control.

Well yes they're not comparable powers, because Seeds is dramatically better in every way that matters. NB: not asking to have Seeds nerfed here, but Mass Confusion and Mind Control in general are plainly in a really poor state, as anyone who has played both sets can see. No reason for people to get defensive about Seeds being a good power here. They are absolutely 1:1 in direct competition with each other as they're literally the only two AOE confuse powers in the game, and Seeds is just hands down way, way way way better.

"scope creep" is a thing, just shortening the cooldown for Mass Confusion is a very small change and shouldn't be a massive six month project to get implemented. I agree Mind Control is not in a great place overall but that one small change would go a very long way.

I feel like the cooldown for Seeds is a relic of when they were selling the Plant Control set for money, similar to how Titan Weapons was blatantly just plain superior when it was released.

in practice the cone of Seeds is easier to hit full packs with than the AOE radius of MC, I really can't see anything that isn't better about Seeds after using both extensively. I agree about reducing the 4 minute AOE holds too, these days it's something every AT can do with some varieties of Judgement.

The whole paradigm of 4 minute tier 9 "BIG MOVE" powers got dismantled with reducing cooldowns for nukes across all sets. It's really long past time to make Mass Confusion a little more on par with Seeds, Arctic Air, Bonfire/KD, Phantom Army and other much better CC powers.

Just inexplicable that the recharge for Mass Confusion is four times the recharge for Seeds of Confusion. Seeds is just plain enormously better in every way. The overall utility of Mind Control vs. Plant Control isn't too great either but reducing Mass Confusion base recharge to parity with Seeds would be a start.

It's a great pity how obvious this is, non-Granite Stone needs some good offensive feature like Bio's -resist/+damage.

this seems to be resolved

Aid Self works pretty good on ice armor tank vs most enemies, 6 slot it with 5 panacea 1 interrupt. The prereq can be satisfied with Injection, a reasonably useful power that doesn't have to be slotted with anything. tanks are definitely not a dying breed, sometimes I've been on teams that are 4 tanks out of 8.

You can fix that in several ways, e.g. with Superspeed or a stealth IO in Sprint or whatever. Confuse is hilariously useful and you can slot the contagious confuse proc piece from the purple confuse set on it, it's a really good power. It's basically 1/2 of Seeds of Confusion, i.e. the best power in the game.

Post 50 you just get Clarion and stop worrying about CC. There is also the Hybrid toggle but Clarion can have 100% uptime and even if you are already CCd you can still fire it.

You get to the point where all your defs are well over capped very easily without relying on stuff like Parry, so don't think that's going to make or break you. Any of these are just fine IMO. e: A useful thing about Broadsword is that it applies -def on everything, which is good for everyone in your team (at least up to the point where everyone is accuracy capped anyway) and you can also put Achilles Heel proc pieces on whatever you want.