EggKookoo

No, it doesn't. Please remember, origin-oriented mission content is just one suggestion. It is a suggestion that involves quintupling the workload for all new content generated under the paradigm, made by people who do not expect to have to do any of that work. Your excuses do not change the work required nor do they broaden the audience for it. Either you plan to do the work yourself or your suggestion is bad.

No, it doesn't. Please remember, origin-oriented mission content is just one suggestion. Really I'm just looking for ways to make my choice of origin (mechanically) relevant. Otherwise I think it should just go away. If your origin is "RP only" as some have suggested, then make it a text field in your bio just like your background is. Disconnect origins from being able to slot DOs and SOs, so you could slot any of them. That might also meaning reducing the drop rate of SOs by 80% and I think the rate of DOs by about 89% (if I did that math right). Regarding being willing to "do the work," I'm not sure what you're getting at. Not everyone who makes a suggestion (in a forum labeled Suggestions & Feedback no less) can reasonably be on the hook for implementing it. I happily donate money to the Homecoming team and I would be willing to donate time as well. That's all kind of beside the point as I'm not a Homecoming dev and probably am not likely to be one in the near future. The point of this thread is to hash out if "making your origin relevant" is a good idea, and to do so in a public place so the actual devs can see it and decide if there's any merit. I don't expect us (well, unless you're a Homecoming dev) to actually do any of the stuff we're talking about.

There's no way to macro or bind dropping a pin on the minimap, is there? Like, I'd like to highlight the monorail or maybe one of the stores. I suspect you can't get there from here.

That requires 2 powers and slots to out perform me on move speed (with one power, no slots used), and even then sometimes I can still win because I am extremely adept at dodging around buildings that they, being slightly less agile will fly up and over. >.> Right, but my point is that you don't even have that second power option with Speed. It feels like SS should always be the fastest travel power (excepting maybe Teleport as it's also the most end-hungry and arguably riskiest). That was true until Fly got Afterburner, which I agree was a good addition to the set. I just wish Speed's equivalent was also something equally powerful-feeling.

Wait until your flying teammates get Afterburner.

Let me reframe it. Let's say we introduce a new arc, available to all players. However, some of the specific content in that arc makes reference to your origin. Some of the choices are shaped by your origin. The overall flavor and tone of the arc is informed by your origin. Does it feel like you're locked out of content because it's tailored for you when you run it, and tailored for me when I do?

I am dying to get into MA but honestly I'm just having too much fun playing the game right now.

Wait wait, this is an argument I can work with! :) Let me see if I can break it down. Origins weren't set up to be divided into genres. True, for the most part. That doesn't mean they can't be divided into genres, if you allow for some overlap. It also would mean that once you start looking at origins as the inspiration for your character's core genre, you'd have to select an origin based on that (or pick just whatever if you don't care about those kinds of things). There isn't enough variety in origins. Also true. From launch, people have wanted an alien origin (I believe Emmert said we should use natural, which frankly doesn't feel... er... natural to me). For the short term it means just fitting to the best origin you can. I'm not sure I'd use natural for a dragon, for example. Magic might work better, but I suppose it depends on your concept. In the long run it might mean adding more origins. "Natural" doesn't mean detective noire. Correct, which is also why I added the reference to Journey to the Center of the Earth. Natural could encompass exotic "real world" Jules Verne or Edgar Rice Burrows settings. Land that Time Forgot is another one, which might dovetail with the dragons = natural thing if you wanted that. I agree that origins were not set up for this purpose. Frankly I'm not sure what they were meant for. I have trouble swallowing that they were created solely as a gate for enhancements, especially since they feature so prominently in character creation. I suspect the devs had some kind of content-related intentions behind them but didn't have time or resources to make it happen. Also, origins-as-genre, and genre-as-mission-content, weren't really my core suggestions. I'm just trying to throw out something to kick off some ideas. Really I just want my choice of origin to matter in some way (or eliminate it).

I mean it's kind of basic logic. Making your choice or origin have consequences for content is like a textbook example of making it "meaningful." I don't if it can be explained any plainer. Regarding excluding a portion of the players, so what? The game does that all over the place. Heroes can't take missions in the Rogue Isles and vice-versa. Praetorians are stuck in Praetoria until lv20. Barring turning off exp gains, you can outlevel content in a given area that another player might have been able to do. I'm not suggesting all content be origin-locked. Having origin-specific missions only "excludes" you if you choose not to make a character of that origin, and in an alt-heavy game like CoH there's little excuse for you to not roll one up if you want that content. Further, missions are shared across teammates. If you're Science and you are teamed with a Natural, you'd be able to do their "Natural" mission with them just like you could do any other of their missions. If anything it would be an incentive to team and encourage "origin diversification" if such a thing was ever needed. Finally, CoH has a history of soothing these kinds of restrictions, like the aforementioned exp disabling. Beside an origin respec, I'm sure they could have special circumstances where you can have a kind of "all origin" task force or whatever. I mean I know creating new TFs is even more pie-in-the-sky but it's not a problem of concept, just a question of resources.

I imagine the intersection of "not easily handled by one application of Gang War" and "easily handled by two applications of Gang War" is pretty small ("handled" meaning the use either outright defeats the enemy or does enough damage so that it doesn't take much effort to finish it off). It varies as you substitute different "nuke" abilities but in most cases it's still probably fairly tiny. I know you're not. That point was originally aimed at OEM61, who was essentially making that claim. I can't help it if you interjected.

I know you're trying to make a joke, but that second casting of Gang War is gonna win you fights for sure. Heck, I thought I was succeeding. Sure, a second dose of Gang War will help take down an EB that you're soloing, but an AV? Maybe it might finish him off if he's already on the way out. And I know that soloing AVs is a thing, but most players go in as teams. Your Gang War is a drop in the bucket (admittedly a fairly large drop, but still). Two uses of Gang War against a giant monster will amount to what, 1-2% of the damage the thing takes overall before dying? Even if I'm off by an order of magnitude (which I doubt), it's not going to win that fight for you. I mean I'm not trying to say Burnout is useless, but saying it's not highly situational or is some kind of reliable game-changer is a tough sell.

(And yes, I realize we're debating Super Speed in that other thread. :) )

I feel like you're trying to apply an impossible standard to the idea and then rejecting it because it can't live up to that standard. CoH already sends your "Superman" and "Batman" on missions to clear gang members from warehouses, and then into portals into other dimensions/timelines to fight aliens. No one's head explodes. If you're deeply into your concept as a street vigilante, you just bypass the content that doesn't fit that. Adding origin-themed/oriented mission content would just be more of that. And the vast majority of players aren't so deeply into their concept that they filter missions based on some kind of setting or genre standard. Frankly I'm baffled at resistance to the idea of making some aspect of the game more interesting. I mean I expect people to say it's unworkable or possibly confusing or even flat out impossible without a a major code overhaul, but if your objection amounts to "that might make me have an opinion about my origin" I'm kind of at a loss...

I'm crossing zones all the time. I mean I literally do it at least once between missions. A boost to my travel power is almost the opposite of "situational." On the other hand, I never (getting multiples to 50 back live and now in my 30s with my new main) once felt like I needed to recharge all my powers for a large end cost and a large end penalty. Wish I happened to have a specific power up and ready at a certain point? Sure. All my powers? No. And the former can be easily managed unless (like your example below) I wanted to pull off two "ultimates" in a row, which really doesn't happen. "Yeah, me an fifty other heroes were beating on Jurassic but it was my second casting of Gang War that won the fight!"

Another thing they could do, if we're talking new arc content (which I agree is kind of wish-listy), is create arc genres based on origin. Natural? You get more "detective noir" and "indiana jones" style arcs (Journey to the Center of the Earth, etc, although that could overlap with Science next.) Science? You're getting into pulp silver age arcs with Kirby-like cosmic baddies. Tech? More arcs that take you to other dimensions, time travel, or fighting high-tech foes. Mutant? Maybe arcs that involve conflicts between mainstream humanity and those who are "different," and deal with the future of both. Magic? You're dealing with demons, cults, Lovecraftian horrors, and mysterious ancient forces. I'm not specifically talking about the kinds of enemies you'd fight in these arcs, although that would also apply. I mean the nature of the conflict and story of the arcs themselves. And each genre would be more likely to drop DO/SO enhancements that relate to its associated origin. And they wouldn't be exclusive to characters of that origin, just more likely to come up as radio/newspaper missions, perhaps. I mean unless they wanted to go all out and create genre-specific contacts to kick them off.

Based on this thread, the position that Burnout is worthwhile is in the minority. My opinion is it's way too expensive in both end cost and recharge to be worth it. I can't think of the last time I though "oh man, if I just had all my cooldowns reset!" It's certainly one of the most situational powers in the game. My thing about Super Speed is that it's now just about the slowest travel power starting mid-game, in terms of getting across a zone. It's not much faster than SJ. Teleport is clearly the fastest. And with Afterburner, Fly is functionally faster. It's about 90% SS speed but without the need to deal with walls and things, which is something I've found I need to take SJ for anyway. And it has quirky weird powers like Whirlwind, which I doubt many bother with. This would all be fine if the final SS power was something amazing to compensate. They can't really make SS faster without exacerbating its maneuverability issues. They can't add mobility like running up walls because the game engine won't allow it. They can't give it a kind of "so fast it's instant" teleport-like feature without stepping on Teleport's toes. Maybe they could give it a speed-based attack but that's basically what Whirlwind is, so... I think I'm mainly just disappointed in Burnout.

While being fully aware I don't know how the game is coded, swapping enhancements shouldn't be that hard. DOs might be a bit more complex than SOs since there are more variables, but each SO has a "representative" for each origin. And while there are more DO permutations, you only need to match one of them to make it work. I mean there are only so many enhancements in the game. It shouldn't be too hard to create a lookup table. IOs and training aren't affected. I forget, are HOs? TBH that was my thinking at first. I find it odd that one of the very first decisions you make when creating a character is to pick an origin. Aside from being a gate for enhancement drops, it pretty much never comes up again. Why bother? Either get rid of origins entirely (and globally reduce the DO/SO drop rates to compensate) or make that decision worth something interesting. I would just rather it be the latter than the former.

Because it's a decision I made on all my characters with the knowledge that it isn't relevant, and there's no way to change it. Brainstorming idea: When making origins relevant, allow origins to be respecced. This is something that we've known for a long time would be very difficult to implement. Are you talking about something wonky/krufty in the code? Otherwise the only problem I see with allowing you to change your origin via respec (or Null, great idea!) is that you could end up with a bunch of useless enhancements. There are a number of solutions to that, including just letting you convert them to the appropriate origin as part of your own origin change. I mean SOs map 1-for-1. Are there any IOs that care about your origin? But yeah, if there's some weird baked-in thing with the code that makes this a nightmare, I see the problem.

Because it's a decision I made on all my characters with the knowledge that it isn't relevant, and there's no way to change it. Brainstorming idea: When making origins relevant, allow origins to be respecced.

Interesting position. Explain?

Not really a specific suggestion so much as a call for brainstorming. If the Homecoming devs are planning on future content and Issues, what could be done to make your origin feel relevant? Maybe origin-specific mission arcs? Origin-synergy with IOs or temp powers? Origin-specific foes, kind of like with Void Hunters but perhaps more sanely balanced? I dunno. Ideas?

I'm probably delusional but I swear back live I could toggle on both Super Speed and Super Jump with one key.

Ok, that's cool. Didn't mean to hurt Hasten's feelings...

Yes, the pool with the single most used power in the game needs help. I actually respecced out of Hasten because I can get the same thing with a couple of recharge reducers. Hasten is vastly overrated. Or did you mean Flurry? ;-)