Underfyre

That settles that. I'll run up a Dark/Bio Dark/Fire (for variety) Sent on my next validation, my numbers say they do plenty of damage.

Defenders and Corruptors have the same blast sets too. Corruptors are even more offense oriented than Defenders. But like I said earlier, making them Assault sets would essentially turn Sentinels into Blappers with Defense secondaries. At that point it officially turns into "Why play a Blaster?" Especially if the damage got bumped up.

VS duration and recharge are matched, so as long as you recast him before he goes away he's essentially perma from the get go. I'm kind of going back and forth on how to put his value in. With your equation it will be 1.29% which seems high. With mine it's 0.34% which seems low. Nope...apparently working it out to how many times it's cast over the cycle (14.305) then doing the rest of the math just turned out to be a way longer equation for what you already posted.

In the case of the spreadsheet, the total amount of time it takes to complete the rotation. For the Sentinel sheet you need at least 2 cycles to build up enough Opportunity for it to calculate correctly, so at minimum 15 seconds. On the Water/SR sheet it takes 21.65 seconds to complete the rotation of 5-7-7-4-21-1-8-7-7-4-21-1-8. For the Elec/Bio it sheet it's a much longer 54.65 seconds to account for VS having such a long duration and his long cast time messing with things.

The solution I came up with was: ((RECHARGE + ((ROUNDUP(CAST / 0.132) + 1) * 0.132)) * 2.5% * 8.3 * 25% / ROTATION_TIME) * ACCURACY) With the duration of the debuff being 8.3s, I don't think it's really necessary to factor in how many times he has a chance to cast, just that he's alive and casting. Comes to a whopping 0.34%, I didn't alter it for Core yet.

Blaster puts in leg work and makes sacrifices to become Sentinel-ish, Sentinel can't put in leg work and make sacrifices to do the same.

I mean they don't technically do this. A pure ranged Blaster doesn't do what a Blapper does. Doing what a Blapper does has an inherent risk/reward to it that can be mitigated slightly by stacking defenses. But they don't have DDR, they don't have status resists, so if the wrong thing starts coming in they may end up eating pavement. A pure ranged Blaster will likely not have to deal with those problems at the cost of damage potential. Sentinels? They have the DDR and status resists, and not the same level of Blapping potential with only Cross Punch and 1 melee attack from epic pools. But those do have the capacity to increase damage, depending on the set. I'm not asking for Blapper damage, I'm asking for better than current damage. Change the base scalar, change the inherent, whatever.

I have a suspicion that VS is also adding to the Reactive Radial debuff stacks, because why wouldn't he? I'm just not sure how to account for that. I mean, it's a constant based off of his single ability, so it shouldn't be super difficult. I'll have to think about it.

Thinking about it, it would be taking everything that makes a Blapper, condensing it to a single primary, then giving it a Defense secondary. Literally stepping on Blasters toes. Not a good idea.

I mean, since I have this better cooldown string to work with it's easier to expand the rotation block. If I push it out to account for the whole minute of the VS that would be the closest to accurate.

It was doubling, and I have no idea why that was ever there. When I noticed how egregiously out of line the damage was I started fishing around for mistakes.

I mean I've given it a minor amount of thought, but yeah, it kind of devolved into throwing rocks. T1 - Throwing small pointy rocks T2 - Worse DPA but harder hitting version of throwing pointy rocks that people think is better but isn't T3 - Earthquake cone (Dominator Fissure, but with damage behind it), or a rock that explodes targeted AE style (I like this one better) T4 - The best version of throwing rocks, probably Hurl Boulder T5 - aim T6 - Fossilize from controller set T7 - Very big boulder? T8 - Targeted AE version of Mud Pots, but with more damage T9 - Earthquake

I don't see that being bad. Just constantly doing more damage, or healing/end. The damage boost is already fairly low anyway, so I'm sure it won't be breaking anything. Then maybe keep the Opportunity mechanic for the -res part.

Assault would be way cooler than just ranged, that's 5sho. And they could have Earth Assault. I want an Earth Sentinel.

Health caps aren't something I track, but from Mid's I get: Scrapper cap: 2409 Sentinel cap: 2088 Both are capped at 75% resists. Health pool matters, especially where regen/s is concerned. The armors as sets aren't 1 for 1 copies. So we have differences like the superior Fiery Embrace against the weaker Molten Embrace. There are no damage auras (besides the one from the epic pool) since it's a "ranged" AT. Sentinels definitely scored with Master Brawler.

I really really really didn't want to include outside factors. I just wanted to look at something extremely simple like an opening attack. I figured the Brute would have some residual rage, just not all of it. It was a constant in both teams, but technically yes, adding more damage increases the value of the debuff. I didn't consider it until afterwards. Team dynamics will get wildly out of hand very quickly when we want to factor in even just a few details. "But whattabout the extra damage from Opportunity? The Sentinel would be doing more damage." "But whattabout the Blasters stacking Defiance? The Blaster would be doing more damage." "But whattabout the debuffs from the Defender? The changes how much the Sentinel is contributing as a force multplier" "But whattabout the mobs innate resists? That will lower how much it's resisting on top of purple patch"

Other sets even use their Ice defense sets. Can you imagine?

Alright, team dynamics. We're just going to assume the Sentinel is opening to justify them being there in a non-opportunity situation. For fun we'll assume the scrapper has Superior Critical strikes for an additional 6% on top of their 10% for a boss. Brute - 41.7077 * 180% = 75.07 Defender - 36.15 Controller - 30.59 Blaster - 62.56 Blaster - 62.56 Corruptor - 41.71 Tanker - 52.83 Scrapper - 62.5615 + (62.5615*16%) = 72.57 Total: 434.04 Brute - 75.07 Defender - 36.15 Controller - 30.59 Blaster - 62.56 Blaster - 62.56 Corruptor - 41.71 Tanker - 52.83 Sentinel - 52.83 Total: 414.3 * 1.05 = 435.02 With Opportunity active: Brute - 75.07 Defender - 36.15 Controller - 30.59 Blaster - 62.56 Blaster - 62.56 Corruptor - 41.71 Tanker - 52.83 Sentinel - 52.83 Total: 414.3 * 1.25 = 517.88 Math wrong here? Does this justify the lower modifier for the class?

Well their secondary is made to take more damage, and they don't do that super well either. So subpar primary and subpar secondary for what? Because they're not allowed to do as much damage as Scrappers? Get outta here.

I'm looking at what I think a team looks like from a classical MMO background. Not what CoH of today thinks a team looks like, but like classic Tank, Heals, Control, DPS kind of thing with just 8 people. Out of spite I'll use a Brute as the tank with 80% rage lol. But like I said, simple math, not looking at every single modifier available to every AT in the group kind of math. Everyone just gets the 1 attack, 100 base scaled by their AT and the ability will use a 100% modifier. Opening attack, so no defiance up, no scourge, no containment, nothing to keep track of. Just scrapper doing its crits and a sentinel that saved its opportunity for the AV.

I'll tackle it later today. I'm just thinking of using the standard 100 damage ability, then spread the AT modifier to each member, then compare having just the Scrapper doin its damage, and having everyone doing more damage from the Sent. Not trying to tie in a million different debuffs, just show the result of total damage done between each AT.

I mean if you want to punish yourself even more, you can do the math on the effects of a team with the Scrapper and Sentinel swapped. Show what the 15% resist debuff does for a similarly built team. I'd do it, but I'm at work right now.

Another consideration is that Scrapper crits are active 100% of the time, but Sentinel Opportunity is up about 50% of the time. So it's more of a 15% debuff.

Gunna put my spreadsheet through validation tests now. This will be a running tally. I'll just post times as I get them. Feel free to put your times up if you do your own comparisons. I'm running tests with Rikti Pylon settings since that is a single target with the least amount of variables involved. Bear in mind that the sheet can't account for lost time due to things like healing and clicking Ageless and stuff there are going to be variations. It's occurring to me that using Hybrid will skew numbers since it will be up for like 1.8 cycles (with Water/SR anyway) instead of up half the time like the sheet factors. Anyway.... The sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t-biqau7l2-_mKiNXdRlB2ZmvwbIUCfP7k83dvz3Mg0/edit?usp=sharing Assume no runs use Hybrid from here on out. Just the passive 10% boost. Also assume I'm stringing out the rotations to match the longest cooldown (Usually AIM) I am recording these runs if anyone wants them for time verification. Red numbers are deprecated since the set has changed so much that I would have to do new runs to get new numbers. Set Expected DPS Observed Avg DPS Variance Variance % Water/SR 255.23 230.42 -24.81 -9.72% Elec/Bio w/Pet 330.68 330.45 -0.23 -0.07% Elec/Bio 314.05 296.08 -17.97 -5.72% Dark/Fire 281.31 276.00 -5.31 -1.92% Dark/Fire no Decimation 273.61 272.45 -1.16 +0.43% Dark/Rad 225.03 219.25 -5.78 -2.64% Dark/Rad w/Annihilation 228.54 222.17 -6.37 -2.87% Psi/Regen T2 248.04 230.91 -17.13 -7.42% Psi/Regen T1 235.56 217.32 -18.24 -8.39% Water/SR: This one was probably bad to start with because I don't have the 10 second cooldown on Enhanced Water Jet implemented. I changed the rotation to match what I ended up using in game. Rotation: (5)-7-7-4-21-1-8 Build: Expected DPS with given rotation: 246.55 258.39 (227.39 237.78 without hybrid) 328 seconds: 244.73 DPS (hybrid used) 325 seconds: 245.81 DPS (hybrid used) 308 seconds: 252.33 DPS (hybrid used) No Hybrid runs Time : DPS 335 : 242.29 406 : 222.27 367 : 232.31 387 : 226.91 379 : 229.00 348 : 238.02 372 : 230.91 351 : 237.07 Time : DPS No hybrid average: 373.75 : 230.42 Electric/Bio: Already had this made on the test server anyway, may as well compare. Seeing a bit of disparity, but I also 0'd out the cast time of VS on the sheet, which is cast twice in the time frame of the runs, so 6.6s unaccounted for. Lengthened rotation to 60s and added abilities 1 and 5 to rotation. Fixed VSs doubled damage, added his cast time back in, added in VS Radial debuff procs in. You get to double dip with him up. He's somewhere between helpful and very helpful. Expected DPS with given rotation: 370.56 330.68 without hybrid Time : DPS 208 : 312.18 208 : 312.18 190 : 329.65 198 : 321.49 198 : 321.49 174 : 348.21 170 : 353.39 168 : 356.08 Avg: 330.45 Removing the pet from the equation kind of smoothed things out, but still seeing disparity. Probably because Decimation mostly only applying to the ability immediately preceding it, but the formula just applies to to the total rotation time. That and Annihilation nor proccing near as often as it should. Added in abilities 1 and 5 to rotation to account for Aim and Opportunity casts. Rotation: 3-6-4-20-21-(1), Two cycles will build your opportunity, there's a chance it may trigger off of Tesla Cage and you cast it out of cycle. The very high damage runs had many procs. It's essentially worth 4.4 seconds of cast time. Contribution is only averaged in the sheet. Build: No pet, Expected DPS: 332.86 314.05 246 : 283.70 215 : 306.18 245 : 284.34 252 : 279.99 226 : 297.50 249 : 281.83 230 : 294.55 213 : 307.86 214 : 307.01 219 : 302.94 198 : 321.49 Avg: 232.22 : 292.95 As promised. Dark/Fire. This one I plotted out because I was tired of doing */Bio builds. Dark was a top contender, so I wanted to see how it played with */Fire. There's also good synergy between Fire being a resist set and Dark having the To Hit debuffs. The answer was "above average." Molten Embrace is no Fiery Embrace, it doesn't scale with enhancements like Fiery Embrace does. Rotation: 3-4-(5)-21-7-20-(1) Dominate holds the Decimation Proc, so I moved it to be in front of the 2 hardest hitting abilities not based off of procs. Switched Aim to be before Dominate, it lasts long enough for all 3 abilities after it to be under the Gaussian proc. Looking at the DPS shift after the first run kind of shows this. Once again, a 5 ability rotation kinda synced up Opportunity casts to happen after 2 full rotations. Build: This build *REQUIRES* Cardiac and Ageless to function. It's too end hungry without them, but it has enough damage to do well without Musculature. This is an end game build that doesn't function well in exemplar content. Expected DPS: 262.12 273.09 New sheet DPS Long rotation: 253.11 New sheet DPS Short rotation: 261.28 275 : 267.27 261 : 274.75 263 : 273.63 248 : 282.45 247 : 283.07 Average: 258.8 : 276.00 Decimation removed, slot empty, Expected: 253.42 263.70 New sheet DPS: 234.21 237 : 289.62 (yes, really) 272 : 268.80 282 : 263.81 269 : 270.38 274 : 268.78 251 : 280.60 271 : 269.32 Average: 265.14 : 272.45 Apparently lengthening the rotation to match the longest cooldown (Aim) is pretty important. Alright, Dark/Rad test coming to you courtesy of @Sir Myshkin. Check his Post for the build. So off the bat, Meltdown has a cooldown of ~118 seconds and Adrenal Booster has a cooldown of ~163 seconds, and I'm not going to expand the sheet out to cover that kind of time span. I think as long as I cover the duration of the buff that should cover things. The expected will probably be lower than the actual, as I've seen in almost every test so far. So this build can be End hungry, Ageless offsets it at first, but towards the end you have to hit Proton Therapy on cooldown to keep your endurance up, this ties up some cast time. Meltdown crash definitely hurts, be ready to use Proton Therapy when it drops. Being pinned to Defensive Opportunity also helps with End use. Damage wise, it never went below half health, very sturdy with a near constant 44% (7.5% after resists) to hit debuff. Proton Therapy was purely to keep End up. Also, I haven't modeled for Tactics to hold Build Up. Whatever, it's fine. Rotation: 3-6-4-7-19-(2)-(18) Expected: 202.98, these tests are going to take forever. Roughly 8 and a half minutes per run. I'm not excited. 601 : 191.63 Switched rotation and build, dropped Engulfing Darkness to pick up Smite. Integrated Gloom into rotation, first run saw several procs. Retooled the Gaussian proc in the Aim slot to have Tactics numbers just to account for the damage increase. Make sure you make a duplicated page before you do this stuff kids. Rotation: 2-4-6-7-20-(18) Expected: 206.9 New sheet DPS: 196.52 365 : 232.88 438 : 215.37 431 : 216.80 445 : 214.00 429 : 217.21 For the next runs I swapped the Ragnarok piece out of Dark Oblit for the Annihilation proc Expected: 226.61 New sheet DPS: 214.17 430 : 217.00 420 : 219.13 414 : 220.45 375 : 230.08 389 : 224.17 Today's build is Psi/Regen/Ninja. This is the character I built after I challenged @ScarySai to a race between Sentinels and Blaster with the lowest end damage producers and he never acknowledged. I used Ninja instead of Psi to get a hold of some -res debuffs. The secondary does nothing to boost damage output, and Psi is filled with lackluster attacks. On top of that, the T1 ability is absolute garbage, so you're locked into Defensive Opportunity. Counterintuitively, I have Decimation slotted in the hardest hitting attack, now that I think about it, but whatever. Lotus Drop almost guarantees a Fury of the Gladiator proc, and Sting of the Wasp should give about a 50% uptime of Achilles' Heel. The Rotation: 2-4-8-20-22-(5). At the tail end of Ageless a gap does start to form between SotW and LD. The build: Expected: 225.93 New sheet DPS: 207.03 384 : 227.69 390 : 226.15 399 : 223.93 363 : 233.46 332 : 243.33 Swapped the T1 for the T2, other wise everything is identical. Switching to the T2 power and losing Offense mode is still a 5.89% increase in DPS. And that's with a secondary that doesn't directly increase damage. Expected: 212.33 New sheet DPS: 203.15 417 : 219.78 428 : 217.42 458 : 211.55 425 : 218.05 417 : 219.78

So are you saying my numbers are blatantly wrong, or are you looking for numbers validation? Cuz I can run some in game tests and get expected vs real results. I understand not taking numbers for gospel when they're, by and large, purely theoretical. I've mostly only tested and verified mechanics, not complete builds.