WindDemon21

Because it hasn't been increased "so much" as to offset it in some situations. It was always there before there is no reason to remove it from the bots into the personal attacks. One example, outside of reischman obviously, is marauder/cyclops/mintaurs when they pop their unstoppable. That -regen lets you widdle down, wait, why am I explaining this at all. We're not talking about -regen being useful, again, were stating, that the -regen should remain in the bots so you don't have to pick up the attacks to keep it. End of discussion.

As mentioned several times, so that you still have it for the many builds that are either too busy, or skip the personal attacks. It's also on the point of not losing out on the -regen by doing so and feeling like you *need* to take the personal attacks if you want that -regen. Again, we're not talking about how much better bots are now in relation etc, just that you shouldn't have to take the personal attacks to now get the -regen that was always in bots in the first place.

Also keep in mind, that this is also not accounting for any time you team, and that -regen means more against an AV than any one person's DPA.

From that one aoe maybe, but from the one that was on a 4s recharge timer and lasted 30 seconds, that most definitely was a perma 500% -regen in all cases. And averaging the other one, in long fights was about 650% -regen on average.

Again, YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT! It's not about "how much -regen is there now. The point is KEEP IT IN THE BOTS!

Ah so then there may be a fix to put it back in the bots!?!

I mean, FOR what it is, I do think it's better as a click, however, the problem is the power itself. IF intended to keep it as is, for one it doesn't take sets. That is one of the worst part of ANY power that can't accept anything. That's why adding a tiny end drain/defense debuff/to hit debuff has been one o the main things added to a lot of powers. Not that the value is anything major, but to allow sets so you can get bonuses on the power, but more importantly, get somewhat good acc/end/rech on the power in fewer slots. We've REALLY been needing a "standard buff/debuff" IO set for powers like this, sonic siphon, siphon power, fulcrum shift, disruption aura, corrosive enzymes from nature etc. So we can get acc/end/rech stats, procs, and bonuses on these powers. I'd really hope to see this implemented by next patch. That and fix the slow sets and change the stupefy stun kb proc to a kb-kd/extra disorient chance proc. (kb-kd for powers like hand clap, force of thunder, and lightning clap so you can still get the 6th bonus of the stupefy set), and make the purple stun proc something better too.

*sigh* AGAIN, we're not arguing the percentage, of -regen, vs the new damage of the bots etc. We ARE arguing, that it shouldn't be in the MM attacks and should remain in the bots...

I thought that too but even then would still want the majority in the bots so the attacks feel less NEEDED in comparison but still help. Even something like 50% per minnion, 75%lt, 100% assault, and 50% per attack. That way it's 400% from the bots, and up to 150% from the attacks. Still less than current, or beta max, but let's be honest again that nobody really will use the aoe against a st usually, and lots still skip at least one of the st attacks.

The personal attacks are supposed to be there to give you something to do in slow support sets mainly. The point being, many choose to skip the attacks, or are too busy to use them. Essentially not only losing the - regen with bots now, but also forcing you to get them to retain some of the - regen also at a huge detriment to end cost and cast/ support time. Again, prior bots did average 650% -regen. If they want to lower that a little given the increased damage fine, but please devs keep it in the bots.

Even con solo maybe. On a team, higher con (esp got reischman), that -regen plays a LOT more of a factor than any dps increase from live. Again, even with it lowered from what it can do on live, the end result is still much more valued in the pets, than forcing it into the attacks and losing it on those that would prefer to skip the attacks. It's the same -regen overall anywho in that scenario. Again, it's about not forcing those attacks for the effect.

You're missing the point. The equivalent -regen can be anywhere in the pets, but the main thing is, key factors should NOT be tied in the MM attacks. One of the best things about MMs, is if you choose you can skip them, and do a playstyle actually focused on the pets and busier support sets. This is an area that really takes a hit on that, especially given the MM end costs. The MM attacks, should be worthwhile on their own outright, but not key to the set for something like the -regen that used to be in the bots attacks. Again, merge it between all of the pets, end up with less -regen overall that what is on live which is going to happen anyway, but do not change it to the MM attacks INSTEAD of the bots.

Ah ok thanks, however, the rest of the point still stands. (that only changes the average -regen from live to about 650% average, so this version is still a nerf, and one hell of one to those who are too busy or skip the MM attacks. Please move the -regen back to the pets.

This reads as the 30% chance is for the knockback, not the -regen. Even with that being so, in any regard, PLEASE keep the -regen in the pets and NOT the MM attacks. Especially in the aoe for something that is mostly only useful against a single target? c'mon. And even if it is 30% chance, on the one 4s rech, even though his other attacks you can still pretty much guarantee that he'll use it enough in 30s to perma that 500% -regen.

And just for reference, the only place that -regen ever really matters, is against AVs. And ESPECIALLY on mm end costs, you can NOT expect us to spam photon grenade on a single target for the -regen.... Please fix the -regen back into the bots...

I wouldn't even mind a scaled debuff, something like, 50% from each minnion bot, 150% from the lt bots, and 300% from the assault bot. (totalling 750). Edit: just for reference, you currently get -1000% from live bots from the assault bot.

Yup, it's abhorrid. Especially on busy sets like storm, elec affinity etc. Please, even if spread through the other bots, and lowered to maybe 750% -regen (or heck even 500%), but keep it in the pets. The attacks should be useful in their own right for damage and not kill your end. They shouldn't tie an existing essential mechanic into them and steal it from the pets for those, MANY who choose/do not want to take the MM attacks, again, especially for those busy secondaries and such.

Shoulda quoted this in my just a second ago post, but, the smaller size is not better on it's own when you know what you're doing. HOWEVER, the smaller size WITH the -speed added to dampening field, would be better. It would be a BIG help, to making these powers synergize better together to help offset the loss of force bubble. (that said, some -speed to repulsion fields aura wouldn't hurt either to to make it's "keep off me" work better too. It woudln't have to be as strong as what I'm suggesting for dampening field 'quicksand/tar patch levels') Again, that's all for positioning to help make up for the loss of force bubble. The power itself still feels somewhat anemic at that recharge, and still suggest the ticcing absorb be added. It woudln't have to be anything of an overpowering value, but enough to make a difference, and allow slotting in the heal sets for some end reduction, rech, bonuses etc. (edit: for stats most would deem useful, and not situational, and we'd all be in agreement, the slow sets for this, are just awful too)

You did? I didn't see it but definitely did too lol,. Also side note hoping, nay PRAYING they add it to tornado which makes sense it should have it anyway, As I've stated again, what it is now, just isn't enough as a tier 9, but also per it's recharge. If its going to remain as it is I'd say easily to at least lower it's base recharge down to 60s or even lower, working like disruption arrow. But bar none, if it had the ticcing absorption, and also, maybe even MORE importantly tbh, adding a hefty -speed/jump/tp/fly to it, would value it a lot more, especially with the current repulsion field. Because then, it helps keep the mobs in place better, while you use the, now MUCH smaller radius of repulsion field's repel, to push them towards the center (versus having the slow in repulsion field's aura itself). This is why, hurricane on it's own, is REALLY bad trying to manuever a mob, because they run around you changing the directional vector of the repel, and constantly getting spread around before the pulsing tic applies and wears off. This is why you NEED slows from snow storm/freezing rain, or an aoe immobilize in the case of controllers, to keep them from moving around WHILE you position them where you want to with the repel. Hence again, add -speed/fly/jump/tp to it, and some ticcing absorb. Though, I'd forgo the absorb IF it got that singularity pull in too :P, though generally, the absorb with the slow added would make the power about perfect.

I haven't tested that yet, almost too afraid cause i know it's nice on melee, but if it turns into what the blaster version lists for, it's going to suck so bad :/.

I woudln't even mind if say maybe, it went from 500% to 400% total, as long as it's still between the bots, but it should not be in the MM attacks especially with their end costs.

Been busy with other changes, but gotta say not a fan of the -regen moved to the attacks, wish it would still be in the bots, even if spread out among them to equal the same amount. Going to be very end costly to try to keep that regen on with all 3 attacks, otherwise it's a -regen nerf too.

I mean, that entirely depends how you play with it. With kb-kd, and no repel then, and lessened chance of knockdown (unless ARE they making it the same kd chance then and not nerfed chance with this change?) Cause otherwise, the kd chance with a kb-kd in repulsion field is fairly poor, especially with the radius of the kb aura (not repel) So it would suck to lose both the repel, and then only have a small radius of kd with much less chance to do that kd. Again depends how you use it, but that's what sucks most about this change. You can't use repulsion AS the small radius kd if you want, AND have the aoe repel from force bubble. So you kinda get screwed either way. Kinda making it really only valualabe WITHOUT the kb-kd, either as a keep away power, or to use like hurricane to position the mobs.

Which is still a loss lol. A radius loss.

*chants* PULL IN PULL IN PULL IN *chants* XD Also, as a tier 9, for that ALL it's doing as well TBQFH it's not enough, is too late, and recharge is too long for that being all it does. As mentioned, pulsing absorb would be best to add to the power, maybe some -damage/-speed, that and maybe add the pull in but i woudln't hold my breath on the pull in with it's big radius. But absorb, -speed, and -damage definitely. (I'd say, at minimum though the absorb, and the -speed). The -speed, cause with repulsion field, it's easier/better for that slow in a field that you can "kiss" with the repel versus the slow in the repel, only working when you're actively on them with it. It's good for protection to have the -speed in repulsion field, but better for field control to have it in the location power. So absorb, and -speed (like quicksand/tar patch levels) at minimum should be added.