Powersets for all around content tanking.

[Darkir]

What powersets are good to tank and do dmg for all around content? I'm thinking fiery melee, dark melee, or titan weapons and bio armor or rad armor (for the taunt toggles). Would fiery aura be better?

 

What primary does the most damage for non-farms? fire?

 

Is having soul drain perma worth going dark melee?

Edited September 28, 2019 by Darkir

[Frostweaver]

stj/bio makes a really good all around killer. as does claws/dark.

That being said, though, firey aura is... really powerful in specialty builds (farming) but requires significant IO set math to be decent for all around content tanking.

 

The thing is, almost any set combination can be really outstanding at all-around tanking. The only sets that do not 'tank as well' are wp and sr, since their taunt auras are weaksauce... They are not weak for survival, just for playing tank.

 

the best damage primaries are not the best primaries for mitigation or team tanking. except for TW, which has it's own problems. Fire is pretty high damage, but on brutes it doesn't have one of it's best tools to shore up taunt weakness (combust). It is also not the highest-damage set depending on the circumstances. It does have good all around damage, but there are better ST and AOE sets.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Frostweaver

[Darkir]

1 hour ago, Frostweaver said:

stj/bio makes a really good all around killer. as does claws/dark.

That being said, though, firey aura is... really powerful in specialty builds (farming) but requires significant IO set math to be decent for all around content tanking.

 

The thing is, almost any set combination can be really outstanding at all-around tanking. The only sets that do not 'tank as well' are wp and sr, since their taunt auras are weaksauce... They are not weak for survival, just for playing tank.

 

the best damage primaries are not the best primaries for mitigation or team tanking. except for TW, which has it's own problems. Fire is pretty high damage, but on brutes it doesn't have one of it's best tools to shore up taunt weakness (combust). It is also not the highest-damage set depending on the circumstances. It does have good all around damage, but there are better ST and AOE sets.

Ok, so lets assume money is no object and I have 2 billion inf to spend on this toon (I do). Also, what are your thoughts on perma soul drain vs. build up?

 

Also, is the taunt aura in bio armor and rad armor enough to forgo taunt? Would blazing aura be just as effective?

Edited September 28, 2019 by Darkir

[Frostweaver]

The taunt auras are not really enough by themselves, not for a brute (except /Ice). For a tanker, yes, but they get an improved taunt affect.
You can help that by slotting taunt enhancers for duration, and spines has a taunt-slottable aura of it's own. But in my experience, even a well-built sentinel can peel off part of your aggro without too much trouble until you have gotten at least six seconds worth of aggro in. six seconds, though, is often enough for a well-built brute to kill off over half the spawn.

Basically, if you want to keep boss/AV aggro there's pretty much no getting around taunt, and you don't NEED to keep the trash aggro because you are a brute.... by far the game's most efficient steamroll aoe killer. Yeah, most stalkers are able to put out a little more ST DPS than you, and most blasters have better burst AOE, but steamrolling content is what you DO. As a brute, 'tanking for the team' is better served by taking taunt, 6 slotting it with mocking beratement, and then just forgetting you have it until it's time to fight Romulus. You are never going to be a tanker, but with you around teams won't need a tanker that much. But it could take... time, on an ST chain, to peel aggro off that dominator who jumped the AV prematurely... unless you have taunt. Time in which a fragile dominator, controller, defender, or corrupter could easily get two shotted.

[Completely Personal Opinion]
Soul Drain on a scrapper kinda kicks butt, on a brute a bit less so. Perma SD kinda feels like it's just trying to make up for the rest of Dark's aoe problems... I would never pair dark with any secondary except one that greatly benefits from it's -to-hit, (which incarnate content kind of ignores) or It's heals, Perma SD is still slow enough (I have never gotten it below 28 seconds) that even slotted for procs/damage it is NOT a decent AOE, and will NOT help you steamroll. However, It does make for a much more tankery build, and it has quite decent single target attacks.

The thing is, once you get heavily into incarnates, even build-up and it's various powerset equivalents are not as useful on a brute. Some folks still use them for Gaussian double buildup, but unless your team is abysmally slow (unlikely since you are a brute) you get a LOT of junk inspirations coming in. Once you invest in an 'auto convert' bind, staying at or near damage cap (around 550% with good slotting and incarnate buffs) starts to become almost trivial. This is, of course, assuming you are playing a decent (reasonably expensive, 600-800 mil) build and have some incarnate slotting. Two or three decent PBAOE's (ball lightning and cages can fill it out) will absolutely help you deal with all the trash in most cases without having to touch any build-up power except for maybe Assault Hybrid.

A Team with  brute is almost always a steamroll team, but I, personally love having Taunt on a 'general purpose' brute.... Not so much for aggro control or acting tankery, but to deal with all those range monkeys and gather them up for easy disposal.

[/Completely Personal Opinion]

if you have two billion, you probably already have a Farmer Brute... which means you probably already know all this 🙂 Jack of All Trades or master of HULK SMASH!

BTW, as you probably already know, these rules utterly change when talking about Farming brutes. Sorry for this post being a little disjointed, it's 4 AM here and I am very groggy.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Frostweaver

[Frostweaver]

I just drank a cup of coffee, so I am going to try to state a lot more clearly and make a TL/DR version.

Taunt won't make you a tank. but in general content, it's almost always worth getting, If only for the awesomeness that is a mocking beratement mule, and for keeping your fury up/screwing with enemy Rangers. But then, you are a Brute. You kill stuff a Tanker would just hold aggro on. If you REALLY want to keep that AV's aggro, Aura and attacks likely will not be quite enough, unless you are /ice or you are the only real DPS on your team.

Perma-SD is not worth making a build around. Dark Melee's aoe sucks, and that is not in question... But with the secondaries that Dark melee synergizes with, it becomes near-godlike (Firey Aura, Shield, willpower, Electric) On sets it does NOT innately synergize with, even War Axe is better.

Oh, and if you ever get the chance, NOTHING will ever feel more like a God of destruction than being the sole DPS on an ITF team full of Rads and spiders.

 

IMO, these are the combinations with 'super synergies' from the ones you were interested in:

TW/wp,electric,ice,ea Most of the rest just don't have the end management or are too clicky to synergize well, even when you get to incarnates.
 

DM/FA

DM/Rad,elec,sr,sd are notable

 

FM/just about every secondary that doesn't need help from your primary for mitigation...stone/Rad/inv/ice/SR/Dark are notable

And weirdly enough, stone armor has three primaries... Savage, Claws, and KM, which make it really tankery and HUGELY compensate for some of it's downsides. and Like Ice, it has a hell of a taunt aura.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Frostweaver

[Darkir]

Thank  you very much for the information and the longer explanation posts. Yes, I have a rad/fire farming brute that I made into a kind of all around toon with 90% s/l and fire resists with softcapped fire def and 35% s/l def. I'm looking for something different and so I was thinking about the options I listed and started making builds to see what kind of numbers I could get out of each. 

 

Here is the current winner, but I should note I haven't looked at Ice because I must have missed the taunt aura.

 

Edit: I looked at ice and it doesnt seems to have a taunt aura just a dmg aura, how does icicles help you keep aggro better than blazing aura or beta decay or evolving armor?

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.5
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Brute
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Armor
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(13), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mk'Bit-Dam%(21)
Level 1: Alpha Barrier -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(9), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 2: Gamma Boost -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 4: Proton Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(5), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5), UnbGrd-Max HP%(7), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(7)
Level 6: Cremate -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dam%(27), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(43), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 8: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 10: Incinerate -- SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprUnrFur-Dmg/Rchg(34), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprUnrFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprUnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End(43)
Level 12: Fallout Shelter -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(15), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 16: Radiation Therapy -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(17), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(17), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Obl-%Dam(50)
Level 18: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Beta Decay -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A)
Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(23), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(23), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(25), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 26: Fire Sword Circle -- SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBrtFur-Dmg/Rchg(34), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprBrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprBrtFur-Rech/Fury(40)
Level 28: Particle Shielding -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(29), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(29), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(31), NmnCnv-Heal(31), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(31)
Level 30: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(33), Rct-ResDam%(33)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Mk'Bit-Dam%(50)
Level 35: Ground Zero -- SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(39), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(48)
Level 38: Char -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Melt Armor -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A)
Level 44: Fire Ball -- Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(46), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Rgn-Knock%(46), Ann-ResDeb%(48)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury 
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(3)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(3)
Level 0: Invader 
Level 0: High Pain Threshold 
Level 0: Born In Battle 
Level 0: Marshal 
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
------------

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Edited September 28, 2019 by Darkir

[Frostweaver]

heh. chilling embrace is the most important part of Ice outside of it's status protection.
It gives -15% damage, -32% racharge, slow, and the most powerful taunt aura in the game. Mud pots comes close, but stone doesn't get a secondary aura. You can use it to debuff and slow a LOT more than the 16 target aggro cap, but Icers tend to jump around a lot to keep everything debuffed. In that respect, CE is actually slightly superior to defender debuffs, since defender debuffs are generally hard capped and targetted/area. CE has a 13 second debuff, and a 5 second pulse, so keeping 30+ mobs debuffed at one time takes little more than bouncing around. Great tanking.

Icicles is it's secondary aura, and it's pretty much like the rest of the taunt auras everyone else gets. I use it as a dumping ground for ATO's, since with no secondary effects, it's not such a great proc monster, and damage procs on brutes are third rate.

Without it, Ice would just be a Weaker version of EA. Sentinel version of Ice armor is like an entirely different set.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Frostweaver

[Frostweaver]

Looking at your build, it is a little confusing. You don't like cones?

[Darkir]

6 hours ago, Frostweaver said:

Looking at your build, it is a little confusing. You don't like cones?

Yeah, I really dislike cones unless they have a huge arc, plus they don't have a set to help defense.

[SeraphimKensai]

Dark melee/stone armor. A teleporting slb of rock that's impervious to harm taunts ppl with mud pots, has a self heal in the attack chain plus soul drain.

[Frostweaver]

This is Frostweaver's build. Tough as a safe, designed to deal with the ITF's overloaded spawns and defense debuffs with ease, and to be extremely Tankery as well as putting out respectable DPS in an inspiration-light environment. Also more than capable of handling the Farming she had to do to get her incarnates maxed. She ignore Malta, laughs at Arachnos, and even eyes Carnies with skepticism. +4/8 is her normal working environment, and easily herds for MSR's and ITrials. Her teams are very, very safe for a brute. She moves around constantly and is almost impossible to slow down and was a tanker back on live.

She could probably be improved (Making the psi hole smaller), but from my point of view she's as close to an ideal Hybrid brute/tanker as she can get. I haven't put down her accolades because I haven't finished getting all of them, but right now she's got Tanker-level HP and is about as unkillable as a defense hybrid can get without that counterproductive pile of slush that is hybernate. She can cripple 3 full spawns at a time, and steamrolls with the best of them.

And, umm, she also tends to yank her team back when they get split. and keep an eye on status effects. Some folks don't care for that much, but I figure that if you are teaming you should be a team... There's an AE in every zone and lots of solo missions for people who just want to solo harder content.

 

 

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.3
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Brute
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Ice Armor
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword -- SprBrtFur-Rech/Fury:50(A), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(25), SprBrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(29), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(29), SprBrtFur-Dmg/Rchg:50(31), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg:50(37)
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(9), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(9)
Level 2: Hoarfrost -- Prv-Absorb%:50(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx:50(3), Prv-Heal/Rchg:50(3), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg:50(5), Prv-Heal/EndRdx:50(7), Prv-Heal:50(7)
Level 4: Chilling Embrace -- Taunt-I:50(A)
Level 6: Build Up -- AdjTrg-Rchg:50(A), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg:50(11), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg:50(13), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg:50(13), AdjTrg-ToHit:50(15)
Level 8: Incinerate -- Mk'Bit-Dam%:50(A), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg:50(11), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45)
Level 10: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 12: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(A), UnbGrd-Max HP%:50(15), UnbGrd-ResDam:50(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(17), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(19)
Level 16: Glacial Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(23), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(23)
Level 18: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(19), LucoftheG-Def:50(21), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(21)
Level 20: Energy Absorption -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(25), PrfShf-EndMod:50(40), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(42), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(42), LucoftheG-Def:50(42)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- Rct-Def/EndRdx:50(A), Rct-ResDam%:50(50), Rct-Def:50(50)
Level 24: Injection -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 26: Fire Sword Circle -- Arm-Dam%:50(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx:50(27), Arm-Acc/Rchg:50(27), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(33), Arm-Dmg/Rchg:50(34)
Level 28: Taunt -- MckBrt-Rchg:50(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng:50(33), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg:50(33), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(34), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg:50(34), MckBrt-Taunt:50(37)
Level 30: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-Travel:50(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx:50(31), BlsoftheZ-ResKB:50(31)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A)
Level 35: Greater Fire Sword -- Hct-Dam%:50(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), Hct-Acc/Rchg:50(36), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Hct-Dmg/Rchg:50(37)
Level 38: Icicles -- SprUnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End:50(A), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(39), SprUnrFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(39), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(39), SprUnrFur-Dmg/Rchg:50(40), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg:50(40)
Level 41: Aid Self -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), NmnCnv-Heal:50(43), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg:50(45)
Level 44: Spring Attack -- ScrDrv-Dam%:50(A), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), ScrDrv-Acc/Rchg:50(48), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg:50(48), ScrDrv-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), FrcFdb-Rechg%:50(50)
Level 47: Field Medic -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 49: Permafrost -- GldArm-3defTpProc:50(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), PrfShf-End%:50(5), PrfShf-EndMod:50(46)
Level 50: Reactive Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement
Level 50: Incandescence Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
------------

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Frostweaver