Ninja/Time/Mace ... the Tankermindroller

[Redlynne]

If you're changing the secondary powerset, you may want to "rebalance" the power picks and slotting to better suit your preferences.

Out of the Ninja/* powerset itself, I'd recommend the slotting for the Ninjas, training powers and Smoke Flash (so 6 of 9) either "as is" or perhaps look around for some damage procs you can slot into the Ninjas in lieu of the stock 'n' standard Acc/Dam/End mix.

 

However, at this point, I'm seriously considering doing a rebuild on the Ninja/Time/Mace framework, simply because I wrote this up and posted it before I'd even started playing again (so, relying on 6+ year old memories of how to build and why) and I'm already running into second guessing some of the choices I made ... such as not taking any of the Ninja primary attacks that use the Bow ... while running around at up to Level 10 in Nova Praetoria.  I've also run into various issues with my bindloadfiles that have forced additional tweaks and reworks, but since I can no longer modify my old postings after the forum move, I'd basically need to just write up a new build post and start over anyway at this point for that.

 

So look at this build as being a first/rough draft that I wanted to have access to for leveling purposes, with the thought always in mind that it would no doubt need to be tweaked and updated and playtime accrued and experience with the build increased.

[Rebel230]

On 7/24/2019 at 12:08 AM, Redlynne said:

If you're changing the secondary powerset, you may want to "rebalance" the power picks and slotting to better suit your preferences.

Out of the Ninja/* powerset itself, I'd recommend the slotting for the Ninjas, training powers and Smoke Flash (so 6 of 9) either "as is" or perhaps look around for some damage procs you can slot into the Ninjas in lieu of the stock 'n' standard Acc/Dam/End mix.

 

However, at this point, I'm seriously considering doing a rebuild on the Ninja/Time/Mace framework, simply because I wrote this up and posted it before I'd even started playing again (so, relying on 6+ year old memories of how to build and why) and I'm already running into second guessing some of the choices I made ... such as not taking any of the Ninja primary attacks that use the Bow ... while running around at up to Level 10 in Nova Praetoria.  I've also run into various issues with my bindloadfiles that have forced additional tweaks and reworks, but since I can no longer modify my old postings after the forum move, I'd basically need to just write up a new build post and start over anyway at this point for that.

 

So look at this build as being a first/rough draft that I wanted to have access to for leveling purposes, with the thought always in mind that it would no doubt need to be tweaked and updated and playtime accrued and experience with the build increased.

For Ninja I am not taking any of the bow attacks, I would prefer to take attacks when I take an epic or patron pool. Can you smoke as a mule for the auras or anything good? I am hoping with proper IO sets I can keep them alive with /thermal.

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, Rebel230 said:

For Ninja I am not taking any of the bow attacks, I would prefer to take attacks when I take an epic or patron pool. Can you smoke as a mule for the auras or anything good? I am hoping with proper IO sets I can keep them alive with /thermal.

My experience with Ninjas (on Ninja/TA where there was NO HELPING them with the secondary) is that Ninjas aren't borderline suicidal ... they're superjump off the cliff and keep your eyes closed suicidal if they aren't getting support in preventing them from killing themselves.  This is why I consider Tankerminding via Bodyguard Mode so incredibly crucial for them, particularly with a powerset like Time that has not only a PBAoE Heal plus Heal over Time but also boosts their Regeneration for a while as well into the bargain.  This means that by taking the attacks onto yourself you are simultaneously DIVIDING the damage up among your Ninjas while also simultaneously MULTIPLYING the effective healing (and, let's be honest with ourselves here, overhealing!) that Temporal Mending is able to deliver for you ... and that's not even including the effect of Temporal Selection into the bargain.

 

Smoke Flash doesn't even take any Set IOs.  It can't mule ANYTHING.  Smoke Flash accepts Endurance Reduction, Range and Recharge Reduction ... and THAT'S IT.  Nothing else (aside from HamiOs, and they aren't superior to Common IOs in this context) can be slotted into Smoke Flash.

 

I've recently started to think that skipping the Bow attacks out of the Ninja primary is a mistake if only because you can slot the Annihilation Resistance debuff proc and/or the Frozen Blast Immobilize proc into Fistful of Arrows ... and you can slot the Winter's Bite (unique) proc into either Snap Shot or Aimed shot for Slow and Recharge debuffing along with the Devastation proc for a Chance to Hold.  In addition to giving you some damage production (to multiply the effectiveness of your Provoke Taunts with) these procs would also allow you to exert additional soft/hard control effects over the action while your Ninjas do your fighting for you.  Snap Shot and Aimed Shot would also give you quick recharging "ranged pull" powers without needing to wait for the recharge on Nemesis Staff or Black Wand to draw $Targets towards you to be dispatched by machinegunning Shurikens from your Genin (which I'm seeing a LOT of while doing all the content in Nova Praetoria with only 2 Genin at my disposal as Disposable Minions 1 & 2).

 

As for keeping Ninjas alive with Thermal ... good luck with that.  The Pet Aura IOs will certainly help, but Ninjas are inherently ... flimsy ... when it comes to survival, although if you can get them up to the NO GET HITSU!! softcap they will start to shine, but that requires a LOT of polishing work.

[Rebel230]

8 hours ago, Redlynne said:

My experience with Ninjas (on Ninja/TA where there was NO HELPING them with the secondary) is that Ninjas aren't borderline suicidal ... they're superjump off the cliff and keep your eyes closed suicidal if they aren't getting support in preventing them from killing themselves.  This is why I consider Tankerminding via Bodyguard Mode so incredibly crucial for them, particularly with a powerset like Time that has not only a PBAoE Heal plus Heal over Time but also boosts their Regeneration for a while as well into the bargain.  This means that by taking the attacks onto yourself you are simultaneously DIVIDING the damage up among your Ninjas while also simultaneously MULTIPLYING the effective healing (and, let's be honest with ourselves here, overhealing!) that Temporal Mending is able to deliver for you ... and that's not even including the effect of Temporal Selection into the bargain.

 

Smoke Flash doesn't even take any Set IOs.  It can't mule ANYTHING.  Smoke Flash accepts Endurance Reduction, Range and Recharge Reduction ... and THAT'S IT.  Nothing else (aside from HamiOs, and they aren't superior to Common IOs in this context) can be slotted into Smoke Flash.

 

I've recently started to think that skipping the Bow attacks out of the Ninja primary is a mistake if only because you can slot the Annihilation Resistance debuff proc and/or the Frozen Blast Immobilize proc into Fistful of Arrows ... and you can slot the Winter's Bite (unique) proc into either Snap Shot or Aimed shot for Slow and Recharge debuffing along with the Devastation proc for a Chance to Hold.  In addition to giving you some damage production (to multiply the effectiveness of your Provoke Taunts with) these procs would also allow you to exert additional soft/hard control effects over the action while your Ninjas do your fighting for you.  Snap Shot and Aimed Shot would also give you quick recharging "ranged pull" powers without needing to wait for the recharge on Nemesis Staff or Black Wand to draw $Targets towards you to be dispatched by machinegunning Shurikens from your Genin (which I'm seeing a LOT of while doing all the content in Nova Praetoria with only 2 Genin at my disposal as Disposable Minions 1 & 2).

 

As for keeping Ninjas alive with Thermal ... good luck with that.  The Pet Aura IOs will certainly help, but Ninjas are inherently ... flimsy ... when it comes to survival, although if you can get them up to the NO GET HITSU!! softcap they will start to shine, but that requires a LOT of polishing work.

Thank you for the solid response, and yes I see what your saying about the IO sets with the bow attacks. Yeah thermal may not have been the best choice, I think /dark may have been a better option with melee pets but its 50 now so im stuck with it, lol. 

[Redlynne]

Dark is at least ... thematic ... for Ninjas, but it also comes with its own set of preferences for positioning and engagement tactics.  For one thing, the heal is Target AoE rather than PBAoE, which has some implications for when it can be used (must have $Target versus at any time).  I like using Temporal Mending AFTER a fight is over, in addition to while a fight is happening, so as to "top up" my Ninjas on health before moving on to the next group of $Targets.  You won't get that kind of performance profile out of Dark, for instance, because the Target AoE heal requires your Allies/Pets to be clustered up around a (live) $Target in order to use it.  That means that if your group is "split" (some by you, some by the $Target, and you're not "huddling up" near the $Target very nearly in melee range yourself) then you'll only heal some of them but not all of them.

 

Can you work around such factors?  Sure ... but you need to "train" yourself as a Player to take advantage of the different circumstances, situations and positioning with Dark in a way that can at times be somewhat less ... forgiving ... than what you'd need to be doing with Time.

 

 

 

But then, what do I know about these things, eh?

[Blaque Zeke]

On 5/12/2019 at 6:00 PM, Redlynne said:

Redlynne, I have a question for you.  How do you deal with all the knockbacks and holds? That is the only thing that gets me sometimes.  Thank you for the build as well, I love ninjas and time makes them super playable!

 

[Redlynne]

With the new build that I made which is in another post that builds on the discoveries made in this one.

[Blaque Zeke]

Thank you and awesome job!