Jump to content

Defense Softcap


Nightmarer

Recommended Posts

Hello,

 

I wonder if you guys can help me clarify something. If I am not mistaken, for regular content, foes up to +5 lvls have 50% chance to hit you (with a few exceptions). That means that, taking into account that the game always keeps 5% chance to hit no matter what, defense softcap (no debuffs accounted) is 45%, that as far as I know has not changed. Does same math apply for EB's and AV's? I was under the impression it did, but I am being told that for EB's / AV's the softcap is 55%. I have a hard time believing that for EB's and I think it would be very stupid if AV's needed a higher def softcap, but it wouldn't be the first stupid thing old devs (hello Synapse) did.

 

Can anyone please help me clarify?

 

 

Thanks 🙂

 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Standard content:

 

Base to hit of enemies is 50%.  45% defense soft-caps you against them at 5% to hit.  +1 through +4 mobs gets an Accuracy bonus.  At +5 and above, they get To-Hit bonuses.  Enemies also get an accuracy rank bonus.  So, a +4 AV has 1.4*1.5 = 2.1 Accuracy bonus giving them 5%*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit.

 

Incarnate content

 

Base to hit of enemies is 63.75%.  So, the Incarnate Softcap is 58.75% defense, leaving the same 5% to hit.

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics

 

 

Edited by Caulderone
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Chelsea Rorec said:

I tried to explain it to him but i didn't do it very well.

He never believes me and it takes someone else on the forums before he realise what i said is correct.

🤷‍♀️

What you tried to explain me has NOTHING to do with that. You said literally that AV softcap is 55% (which as you just saw is bullshit) and also 45% was too low def for +1 and +2 foes which is also a pile of crap since foes to hit is 50% up to +5 lvls above you. There's a reason why i don't believe what you say, and that is it.

 

So basically, to floor a +4 AV id' need around 50% def (not 55%) and any foes up to +5 lvls above me have exact same chance to hit (50%). All in all it is nothing like you said, but hey, keep gimping your builds to squeeze that unnecessary 10% def or more, your char, your decision.

Edited by Nightmarer
Typos, typos everywhere
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Nightmarer said:

So basically, to floow a +4 AV id' need around 50% def (not 55%) and any foes up to +5 lvls above me have exact same chance to hit (50%). All in all it is nothing like you said, but hey, keep gimping your builds to squeeze that unnecessary 10% def or more, your char, your decision.

Not exactly.  45% is the best you can do against normal content.  Going up to 50% doesn't change things.  The minimum base to hit is 5% and the mobs are getting Accuracy bonuses to that minimum 5% to hit chance.

+0 minion = 5% to hit

+4 minion (1.4 acc) = 5*1.4 = 7% to hit

+0 boss (1.3 acc) = 5*1.3 = 6.5% to hit

+4 boss (1.4*1.3) = 5*1.82 = 9.1% to hit

Once they get to +5, then they get +to hit bonuses, and then more defense might matter.

So, the correct statement would be:  to floor a +4 AV you need 45% defense.  Their floor would be 5%*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit you.

 

Now, extra defense can help against defense debuffs to an extent.

 

For Incarnate content, same deal except the softcap is 58.75% instead of 45% defense.

 

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Caulderone said:

Not exactly.  45% is the best you can do against normal content.  Going up to 50% doesn't change things.  The minimum base to hit is 5% and the mobs are getting Accuracy bonuses to that minimum 5% to hit chance.

+0 minion = 5% to hit

+4 minion (1.4 acc) = 5*1.4 = 7% to hit

+0 boss (1.3 acc) = 5*1.3 = 6.5% to hit

+4 boss (1.4*1.3) = 5*1.82 = 9.1% to hit

Once they get to +5, then they get +to hit bonuses, and then more defense might matter.

So, the correct statement would be:  to floor a +4 AV you need 45% defense.  Their floor would be 5%*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit you.

 

Now, extra defense can help against defense debuffs to an extent.

 

For Incarnate content, same deal except the softcap is 58.75% instead of 45% defense.

 

 

Aha, now I get you, I keep mixing To Hit and Acc. Basically To Hit remains the same but since the +acc bonuses apply afterwards, for a +4 AV, there's no difference between 45% def and 55% def, their chance to hit will be 10.5% anyway and the extra def would only be helpful to counteract def debuffs.

 

Did I understand correctly now?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I told him there is 2 softcaps 45% and 55%.

I mentioned 55% helps Vs AV's.

Hes taken it that i said 55% is an EB/AV softcap when its not.

It does help a bit.

He now going to keep building all his toons with just 45% def cap and ignore any incarnate content or def caps becuase hes a pig headed moron and hes using this posts to prove hes right.

Thats what i'm dealing with in game.

I honestly give up.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are two softcaps, but AVs have nothing to do with it.  AVs get accuracy, not to-hit.

 

Normal content = 45%

Incarnate content = 58.75%

 

I believe I made that clear above and that he understood that.

 

edit to add numbers:

+4 AV, 45% (or more) defense = 5*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit you

+4 Incarnate AV, 58.75% (or more) defense = 5*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit you

+4 Incarnate AV, 45% defense = 13.75*2.1 = 28.875% chance to hit you

Edited by Caulderone
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Caulderone said:

There are two softcaps, but AVs have nothing to do with it.  AVs get accuracy, not to-hit.

 

Normal content = 45%

Incarnate content = 58.75%

 

I believe I made that clear above and that he understood that.

 

edit to add numbers:

+4 AV, 45% (or more) defense = 5*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit you

+4 Incarnate AV, 58.75% (or more) defense = 5*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit you

+4 Incarnate AV, 45% defense = 13.75*2.1 = 28.875% chance to hit you

Oh no he believes you.

But before his post we had a convo where i badly explained the def caps and he wouldn't believe me.

So he came here because he believes a random on the forums before me.

So now ingame its: Nightmarer 2: so 55% for regular AV's is f**king useless

All day long.

He can't grasp the concepts that there is an incarnate def cap to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later
On 1/4/2020 at 9:13 AM, Caulderone said:

Not exactly.  45% is the best you can do against normal content.  Going up to 50% doesn't change things.  The minimum base to hit is 5% and the mobs are getting Accuracy bonuses to that minimum 5% to hit chance.

+0 minion = 5% to hit

+4 minion (1.4 acc) = 5*1.4 = 7% to hit

+0 boss (1.3 acc) = 5*1.3 = 6.5% to hit

+4 boss (1.4*1.3) = 5*1.82 = 9.1% to hit

Once they get to +5, then they get +to hit bonuses, and then more defense might matter.

So, the correct statement would be:  to floor a +4 AV you need 45% defense.  Their floor would be 5%*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit you.

 

Now, extra defense can help against defense debuffs to an extent.

 

For Incarnate content, same deal except the softcap is 58.75% instead of 45% defense.

 

 

Thanks for all the information you shared in this thread. Just asking for clarification on the Incarnate cap. Do level shifts affect this? Like is the cap still 58.75% if I am +1, +2, and +3? Or does it only need to be 45% when you start getting shifted (or at any certain level shift)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Level shift has no effect on whether or not a mob is an Incarnate mob.  Non-incarnate mobs cap is 45%, Incarnate mob cap is 58.75%.

 

Now, a level 54 incarnate mob is +4 by default.  It would be effectively +3 with +1 level shift.  This would affect the accuracy bonus.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...