Defense Softcap

[Nightmarer]

Hello,

 

I wonder if you guys can help me clarify something. If I am not mistaken, for regular content, foes up to +5 lvls have 50% chance to hit you (with a few exceptions). That means that, taking into account that the game always keeps 5% chance to hit no matter what, defense softcap (no debuffs accounted) is 45%, that as far as I know has not changed. Does same math apply for EB's and AV's? I was under the impression it did, but I am being told that for EB's / AV's the softcap is 55%. I have a hard time believing that for EB's and I think it would be very stupid if AV's needed a higher def softcap, but it wouldn't be the first stupid thing old devs (hello Synapse) did.

 

Can anyone please help me clarify?

 

 

Thanks 🙂

 

[Caulderone]

Standard content:

 

Base to hit of enemies is 50%.  45% defense soft-caps you against them at 5% to hit.  +1 through +4 mobs gets an Accuracy bonus.  At +5 and above, they get To-Hit bonuses.  Enemies also get an accuracy rank bonus.  So, a +4 AV has 1.4*1.5 = 2.1 Accuracy bonus giving them 5%*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit.

 

Incarnate content

 

Base to hit of enemies is 63.75%.  So, the Incarnate Softcap is 58.75% defense, leaving the same 5% to hit.

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics

 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Caulderone

[Chelsea Rorec]

I tried to explain it to him but i didn't do it very well.

He never believes me and it takes someone else on the forums before he realise what i said is correct.

🤷‍♀️

Edited January 4, 2020 by Chelsea Rorec

[Nightmarer]

Thank you very much indeed. It's pretty much what I thought.

 

[Chelsea Rorec]

Just now, Nightmarer said:

Thank you very much indeed. It's pretty much what I thought.

 

lies

[Nightmarer]

13 minutes ago, Chelsea Rorec said:

I tried to explain it to him but i didn't do it very well.

He never believes me and it takes someone else on the forums before he realise what i said is correct.

🤷‍♀️

What you tried to explain me has NOTHING to do with that. You said literally that AV softcap is 55% (which as you just saw is bullshit) and also 45% was too low def for +1 and +2 foes which is also a pile of crap since foes to hit is 50% up to +5 lvls above you. There's a reason why i don't believe what you say, and that is it.

 

So basically, to floor a +4 AV id' need around 50% def (not 55%) and any foes up to +5 lvls above me have exact same chance to hit (50%). All in all it is nothing like you said, but hey, keep gimping your builds to squeeze that unnecessary 10% def or more, your char, your decision.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Nightmarer
Typos, typos everywhere

[Caulderone]

6 minutes ago, Nightmarer said:

So basically, to floow a +4 AV id' need around 50% def (not 55%) and any foes up to +5 lvls above me have exact same chance to hit (50%). All in all it is nothing like you said, but hey, keep gimping your builds to squeeze that unnecessary 10% def or more, your char, your decision.

Not exactly.  45% is the best you can do against normal content.  Going up to 50% doesn't change things.  The minimum base to hit is 5% and the mobs are getting Accuracy bonuses to that minimum 5% to hit chance.

+0 minion = 5% to hit

+4 minion (1.4 acc) = 5*1.4 = 7% to hit

+0 boss (1.3 acc) = 5*1.3 = 6.5% to hit

+4 boss (1.4*1.3) = 5*1.82 = 9.1% to hit

Once they get to +5, then they get +to hit bonuses, and then more defense might matter.

So, the correct statement would be:  to floor a +4 AV you need 45% defense.  Their floor would be 5%*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit you.

 

Now, extra defense can help against defense debuffs to an extent.

 

For Incarnate content, same deal except the softcap is 58.75% instead of 45% defense.

 

 

[Nightmarer]

7 minutes ago, Caulderone said:

Not exactly.  45% is the best you can do against normal content.  Going up to 50% doesn't change things.  The minimum base to hit is 5% and the mobs are getting Accuracy bonuses to that minimum 5% to hit chance.

+0 minion = 5% to hit

+4 minion (1.4 acc) = 5*1.4 = 7% to hit

+0 boss (1.3 acc) = 5*1.3 = 6.5% to hit

+4 boss (1.4*1.3) = 5*1.82 = 9.1% to hit

Once they get to +5, then they get +to hit bonuses, and then more defense might matter.

So, the correct statement would be:  to floor a +4 AV you need 45% defense.  Their floor would be 5%*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit you.

 

Now, extra defense can help against defense debuffs to an extent.

 

For Incarnate content, same deal except the softcap is 58.75% instead of 45% defense.

 

 

Aha, now I get you, I keep mixing To Hit and Acc. Basically To Hit remains the same but since the +acc bonuses apply afterwards, for a +4 AV, there's no difference between 45% def and 55% def, their chance to hit will be 10.5% anyway and the extra def would only be helpful to counteract def debuffs.

 

Did I understand correctly now?

[Caulderone]

Yup.

[Nightmarer]

Thank you very much indeed for clarifying 🙂

[Chelsea Rorec]

I told him there is 2 softcaps 45% and 55%.

I mentioned 55% helps Vs AV's.

Hes taken it that i said 55% is an EB/AV softcap when its not.

It does help a bit.

He now going to keep building all his toons with just 45% def cap and ignore any incarnate content or def caps becuase hes a pig headed moron and hes using this posts to prove hes right.

Thats what i'm dealing with in game.

I honestly give up.

 

[Caulderone]

There are two softcaps, but AVs have nothing to do with it.  AVs get accuracy, not to-hit.

 

Normal content = 45%

Incarnate content = 58.75%

 

I believe I made that clear above and that he understood that.

 

edit to add numbers:

+4 AV, 45% (or more) defense = 5*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit you

+4 Incarnate AV, 58.75% (or more) defense = 5*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit you

+4 Incarnate AV, 45% defense = 13.75*2.1 = 28.875% chance to hit you

Edited January 4, 2020 by Caulderone

[Chelsea Rorec]

13 minutes ago, Caulderone said:

There are two softcaps, but AVs have nothing to do with it.  AVs get accuracy, not to-hit.

 

Normal content = 45%

Incarnate content = 58.75%

 

I believe I made that clear above and that he understood that.

 

edit to add numbers:

+4 AV, 45% (or more) defense = 5*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit you

+4 Incarnate AV, 58.75% (or more) defense = 5*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit you

+4 Incarnate AV, 45% defense = 13.75*2.1 = 28.875% chance to hit you

Oh no he believes you.

But before his post we had a convo where i badly explained the def caps and he wouldn't believe me.

So he came here because he believes a random on the forums before me.

So now ingame its: Nightmarer 2: so 55% for regular AV's is f**king useless

All day long.

He can't grasp the concepts that there is an incarnate def cap to.

[Caulderone]

Well, point him back at that last post you quoted.  It gives examples that should be easy to see and understand.

[Chelsea Rorec]

2 minutes ago, Caulderone said:

Well, point him back at that last post you quoted.  It gives examples that should be easy to see and understand.

Yeah you need to spell it out in plain english for him.

[Warwallalt]

On 1/4/2020 at 9:13 AM, Caulderone said:

Not exactly.  45% is the best you can do against normal content.  Going up to 50% doesn't change things.  The minimum base to hit is 5% and the mobs are getting Accuracy bonuses to that minimum 5% to hit chance.

+0 minion = 5% to hit

+4 minion (1.4 acc) = 5*1.4 = 7% to hit

+0 boss (1.3 acc) = 5*1.3 = 6.5% to hit

+4 boss (1.4*1.3) = 5*1.82 = 9.1% to hit

Once they get to +5, then they get +to hit bonuses, and then more defense might matter.

So, the correct statement would be:  to floor a +4 AV you need 45% defense.  Their floor would be 5%*2.1 = 10.5% chance to hit you.

 

Now, extra defense can help against defense debuffs to an extent.

 

For Incarnate content, same deal except the softcap is 58.75% instead of 45% defense.

 

 

Thanks for all the information you shared in this thread. Just asking for clarification on the Incarnate cap. Do level shifts affect this? Like is the cap still 58.75% if I am +1, +2, and +3? Or does it only need to be 45% when you start getting shifted (or at any certain level shift)?

[Caulderone]

Level shift has no effect on whether or not a mob is an Incarnate mob.  Non-incarnate mobs cap is 45%, Incarnate mob cap is 58.75%.

 

Now, a level 54 incarnate mob is +4 by default.  It would be effectively +3 with +1 level shift.  This would affect the accuracy bonus.