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Alignment missions for Rogues & Vigilantes

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Hey there,


I'm sure this is "bigger than a breadbox" but it's always something I wanted, so I'll throw it in.  For Rogues and Vigilantes, what I always wanted was Tip missions "on the other side of the fence," (Paragon City for Rogues, the Isles for Vigilantes) that reinforce your current alignment.  Like in Paragon, Rogues only get tips that can make them a Hero, and I always wanted to see them be able to be Rogues there.


As I said, I recognize this would probably be a significant amount of work (a whole new set of tip missions or options for the existing ones, plus making sure the new stuff doesn't make the whole alignment system go kablooie), but I figured I'd at least bring it up as a wish-list item.


Thanks and have a great day.



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I am behind this proposal; which means I’m going to break it down to figure out what’s needed.


First, we already have the framework in that they need to be an alternate path for the existing tips to fit the existing model. The trick is I think we actually need to create the opposite of what we’re thinking to make it work.


Now, I’ll be honest, I’ve not really played any of the vigilante to villain missions. I hate playing complete monsters and even on live I weant rogue (if not hero) as early as possible. As a result I’m going to be talking about implementing rogue options into the Paragon City missions for them.


The first and most important point that has be addressed in this regard is that, almost without fail, the rogue to hero missions in Paragon almost invariably involve the rogue TRYING to enact a roguish scheme, but unplanned events generally lead to you NOT getting your payday, but inadvertently doing something that makes you look like a hero (or at least getting out of the debacle without looking guilty) while doing so.


Translation: until the morality mission your rogue is still trying to be a rogue, but the universe isn’t cooperating. You more stumble into heroism than choose it until the morality mission.


Which presents a problem in terms of creating an alternate path for them; you basically have to edit the universe instead of altering your actual choice.


Take “A compromising photograph” for example; Manticore blackmails you into helping Longbow with a mission. You, being a rogue, stretch the mission parameters so you can also rob the safe of the villain Longbow is raiding and you end up rescuing some heroes in the process and end up looking like a hero because the system you were supposed to bypass was boobytrapped and would have killed them with poison gas if you disabled it as ordered, but your sabotage so you could also rob the safe releases sleeping gas instead).


There’s not really a good place to split that off while still being a rogue (i.e. looking to score a payday vs. evil for evil’s sake).


Maybe trying to steal back the compromising evidence against you... from Manticore while you’re level 20 and with modern media storage making it near impossible to get every backup he’s certain to have.


Yeah, trying to score a payday while doing a mission you don’t particularly want to is the roguish angle already. Likewise, leaving the unconscious heroes behind to be sold into slavery or worse... that’s pretty solidly villain rather than rogue so you gotta rescue them.


Where I honestly think the reinforcement almost needs to come is NOT all the tip missions, but in an alternate for the Heroic Morality Mission at the end, but the problem there is that the alignment switch mission are also the hero reaffirming missions.


Where’s the payday on trying to stop Longbow from taking out Doc Quantum, or convincing Blast Furnace to not be a villain or rescuing a rogue Bane Spider scheduled for execution. The main payday in all of those would be... don’t get involved.


You’d almost have an easier time adding missions for the rogue in Paragon missions that work from an actively trying to be a hero perspective and re-labeling the current ones as the Rogue alignment tip missions and create the four rogue reconfirmation missions for having done ten of the current ones.


Like, in the above case, leave the current option as the Rogue Alignment and add a heroic version where you decide to play the mission straight. You go to disable the security system, but catch that it’s trapped to kill everyone with poison gas if it’s tampered with so instead you have to help the heroes escape after the security system goes off. Longbow blames you for the screwup, but afterwards you get another note from Manticore telling you that he knows why you didn’t disable the system and so has destroyed the evidence (i.e. the public may not see you as a hero yet, but another hero recognized your intentions.


Likewise, from looking at a few of the vigilante missions in the Rogue Isles on the wiki, it seems like most of them hinge on you making very dark choices but still with the motivation of stopping a greater threat.


Take “A Trashcan Set On Vibrate” for an example; you’re trying to stop an Archon from powering himself up using the life essence of captured heroes who are now near death and discover the best way to shut the villain down is let those captured heroes die.


Rescuing the heroes and fighting the still empowered villain is hero morality; the decision is the right call for vigilante as defined in city of heroes. So make that choice the vigilante one.


For the villain one we need a more callous ends justify the means option. Instead of just shutting the archon down, you go in with the plan to take the empowerment process for yourself to help you more effectively take down “real villains” and instead killing the heroes to power down the archon, you use the process on yourself to put you on the level of the archon. This kills the two weaker subjects and the after mission blurb states that even though you saved the two others, they’re looking at you like you’re a monster.


At that point you could just keeps the existing rogue/vigilante confirmation missions you have now; just allow them to drop no matter your location instead of only in the Isles for Rogues and Paragon for Vigilantes.



Edited by Chris24601
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  • 1 year later

Sorry to necro an ancient thread, but I wanted to see if this had been suggested and add on that it'd be nice for Rogue and Vigilante tips to have all three of the alignment choices on either side of the water. So Rogues could pick Hero outcomes on tips in the Rogue Isles if they wanted, say, in addition to being able to make Rogue or Villain choices in Paragon. Really I think the morality system is a mess, but tweaking the mission narratives that way would add some fun nuance to things without redoing how alignment was implemented into the game engine.

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