About incarnate level shifts

[Snowdaze]

31 minutes ago, SurfD said:

Wait, really?  I don't thin I have ever seen it drop anything but a Common.  Maybe just bad luck on my part then.  Nice to know, which bumps the potential payout up even more.

facts!

[thunderforce]

21 hours ago, Snowdaze said:

Can someone explain to me what the need to only run content that is purple con is? I understand the want for a challenge, but that shouldn't be at the expense of normal difficulty settings or current game design. There is no need to "force" a harder time on people.

There isn't such a need and the proposal doesn't force people to fight purples. The current system is at the expense of normal difficulty settings; in DA, if you want to make full use of the interesting bits of incarnate abilities, the Notoriety scale effectively goes from -4 to +1 rather than the normal -1 to +4. (Outside DA it goes from -2 to +3, which is less bad... but if having less level shift means a less bad thing happens, what do we conclude?)

 

I think the idea of being able to add "incarnate level shifts" to enemies, posted upthread, is a good one. It makes it optional (and while I think removing level shifts altogether outside of iTrials would be a good idea, I recognise there will be enormous pushback to that). Why not just add +7 Notoriety? The "incarnate level shifts" wouldn't need enemy groups' level ranges to be revised, and in my view should not provide bonus XP and inf - it's just a challenge setting for people, not a tool for farming.

[Snowdaze]

 

1 hour ago, thunderforce said:

There isn't such a need and the proposal doesn't force people to fight purples. The current system is at the expense of normal difficulty settings; in DA, if you want to make full use of the interesting bits of incarnate abilities, the Notoriety scale effectively goes from -4 to +1 rather than the normal -1 to +4. (Outside DA it goes from -2 to +3, which is less bad... but if having less level shift means a less bad thing happens, what do we conclude?)

 

I think the idea of being able to add "incarnate level shifts" to enemies, posted upthread, is a good one. It makes it optional (and while I think removing level shifts altogether outside of iTrials would be a good idea, I recognise there will be enormous pushback to that). Why not just add +7 Notoriety? The "incarnate level shifts" wouldn't need enemy groups' level ranges to be revised, and in my view should not provide bonus XP and inf - it's just a challenge setting for people, not a tool for farming.

You cant level shift the current enemies because the enemies you are fighting aren't incarnates! I now repeat my first post for effect!

On 5/13/2020 at 1:14 AM, Snowdaze said:

Explain to me what it means to be an incarnate then if you aren't effectively more powerful then the ordinary folk. OP suggestion could be done, but it defeats the game lore it is designed for.

 

If the OP doesn't want to be level shifted then they can craft and equip a T2 power. If at that point you want to complain that you aren't getting full benefit from said incarnate power then you are missing the point of the incarnate power all together. You are either more powerful, or you are not.

 

Gunna go with: leave incarnate level shifts alone. Using the extra power after 50 is a choice.

[Snowdaze]

Lastly I'm sorry the game didn't stay alive long enough to give us proper enemies to fight with all this epic power. However that doesn't mean we should go around breaking the game because Battalion isn't here to kick out asses!

Edited May 14, 2020 by Snowdaze

[thunderforce]

It doesn't break the game to design around gameplay first and let the lore (where enemies don't even have "levels") adapt to fit. You might as well demand that no enemy be allowed to be over level 50 at all, because that's how it is for players.

[Snowdaze]

30 minutes ago, thunderforce said:

It doesn't break the game to design around gameplay first and let the lore (where enemies don't even have "levels") adapt to fit. You might as well demand that no enemy be allowed to be over level 50 at all, because that's how it is for players.

Now it feels like you are grasping at straws. The levelless enemies are specifically designed for world events so lowbies wont be roflstomped and can still contribute. You put them in normal content then it's never any harder or any easier, its plain white bread. As for no enemies over 50, well you are clearly just angry to make such a statement, because both you and I know thats just dumb. Now if you GO BACK AND READ my second post I said: "If anything research should be done to potentially add +5 through +7, and for the love of all things, limit the terror of it's mass wiping potential to 50+'s! And leave the current incarnate system alone!"

 

Now this can't just happen over night, the enemies in the game are not designed to scale higher then 54 for most of them, which literally means they would have to modify X number of endgame factions to allow for 55-57. But I would like to state, lore wise this makes very very very very very little sense. It would be input just to satisfy your sadist needs to beat your head against a wall.

[thunderforce]

46 minutes ago, Snowdaze said:

Now it feels like you are grasping at straws. The levelless enemies are specifically designed for world events so lowbies wont be roflstomped and can still contribute. You put them in normal content then it's never any harder or any easier, its plain white bread. As for no enemies over 50, well you are clearly just angry to make such a statement, because both you and I know thats just dumb.

You missed the point; it's nothing to do with Giant Monsters. In lore, all enemies are "levelless". No-one has ever heard of a "level". Mobs getting a level shift has nothing to do with the lore.

 

But if you can somehow pretend that "levels" are a part of lore, you might as well ask how it is that players can never exceed level 50 but mobs can. It makes no less sense than complaining about mobs getting a level shift to make them challenging.

Edited May 14, 2020 by thunderforce

[Snowdaze]

1 hour ago, thunderforce said:

You missed the point; it's nothing to do with Giant Monsters. In lore, all enemies are "levelless". No-one has ever heard of a "level". Mobs getting a level shift has nothing to do with the lore.

 

But if you can somehow pretend that "levels" are a part of lore, you might as well ask how it is that players can never exceed level 50 but mobs can. It makes no less sense than complaining about mobs getting a level shift to make them challenging.

Levels are a game system to make the game feel natural. As you become a more powerful hero through experience and your own "SECURITY LEVEL", the enemies you fight become less effective against you, and you encounter new factions that have other tricks and more effective and then less as you once again become more powerful then them. Security level 50 is the highest the city assigns any hero. 

 

Also all invasions have levelless (system wise) enemies, not JUST giant monsters which I mentioned nothing about. 

 

If you factor in everything an incarnate gains, they are MUCH MUCH tougher then they appear, that is the point. If you have done any iTrials or the incarnate gated TF's, look at what the devs had to do to make them challenging. They didnt just add some HP and some damage, they literally made it so you had to follow a strategy. iTrials are designed to to challenge you! Regular content is NOT designed to challenge incarnates! THAT IS THE POINT OF BEING MORE POWERFUL! Incarnates are not weak delicate things that need help from others!

[thunderforce]

9 minutes ago, Snowdaze said:

Levels are a game system to make the game feel natural.

 

Regular content is NOT designed to challenge incarnates! THAT IS THE POINT OF BEING MORE POWERFUL! Incarnates are not weak delicate things that need help from others!

Levels are, yes, a game system. Not part of the lore. That's my point. Nothing to do with levels can contradict lore.

 

The second part of this isn't saying more than that you personally want to steamroll stuff. Fine: with a full set of T4s and the Notoriety at -1, you can steamroll stuff whether or not you get a level shift. Other people would like a challenge; don't deny them it. (It seems pretty clear, in fact, that the DA story arcs were designed to challenge incarnates, given the selection of mobs with nasty ability combinations; it didn't work, but that was the design.)

Edited May 14, 2020 by thunderforce

[Snowdaze]

8 minutes ago, thunderforce said:

Levels are, yes, a game system. Not part of the lore. That's my point. Nothing to do with levels can contradict lore.

 

The second part of this isn't saying more than that you personally want to steamroll stuff. Fine: with a full set of T4s and the Notoriety at -1, you can steamroll stuff whether or not you get a level shift. Other people would like a challenge; don't deny them it.

People want their level shift, dont deny them it!

[thunderforce]

10 minutes ago, Snowdaze said:

People want their level shift, dont deny them it!

You say that, but you've yet to really explain what people get out of it. Is there really anyone for whom steamrollering -1s with incarnate abilities isn't enough, so they have to be allowed to steamroller -4s?

 

(Also, the proposed optional incarnate level shift for mobs... wouldn't stop them doing it.)

[Snowdaze]

If you want a challenge go play in Ouroboros, and flick on all the options. Radios arent ment to be a challenge. Also you HAVE THE OPTION to not use full Incarnate power if you want a Challenge! Not using what has been put in the game is an option, you arent forced to be an incarnate! WHY do you feel the need to change what others have come to love and enjoy? You have options if you want a challenge.

[Infinitum]

3 hours ago, thunderforce said:

You say that, but you've yet to really explain what people get out of it. Is there really anyone for whom steamrollering -1s with incarnate abilities isn't enough, so they have to be allowed to steamroller -4s?

 

(Also, the proposed optional incarnate level shift for mobs... wouldn't stop them doing it.)

Its there.... People do like it and want it.... If you do not.... Do not use it....

 

Otherwise You are simply trying to impose your will on what the majority do not want.

[ShogunGunshow]

Honestly, speaking personally, I'd rather see Judgments get nuked into the ground before anything else. They have way more of a negative impact on the game than level shift.

Edited May 16, 2020 by ShogunGunshow