Street Justice Attack Chain?

[Croax]

Ok i did some testing myself tonight. I just tested the Strikerfox Rotation and added it to my sheet with my first attempt of pylon tests. The first two runs have been with the first rotation and the third run is with the second rotation. While playing it i came to the conclusion that these two rotations are almost the same. Since i replace HB for BU procs the rotation is the same on such cycles. Also i think i got better with following a rotation and hitting buttons since the average kills of the Pylons have been all very close together. And i encountered a strange effect. The formula for calculating DPS is "smooth" while mob regen is not. The health ticks up and i could see myself hoping to get the kill before the next regen tick. So i think now that the rotation 1 and two are almost identical and do not differ very much. I posted it in the pylon thread a while ago, that i have done the tests with a fully incarnated T4 build using, Musculature Alpha, Degenerative Core, Ageless Core, Assault Core. I walked to the pylon and cast Hasten, Ageless and Toggled on Assault. Hit Build Up queued Assassin Strike and hit Start on the timer before AS could hit. I did this to ensure that AS into CU will get the stealth proc but sometime into the pylon kill attacks will miss and the Hide proc gets "out of sync". it does not matter much in my opinion, since after 30 kills the times are not really very much far from each other.

 

Here is the build i used:

 

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Stalker
Primary Power Set: Street Justice
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Heavy Blow -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), CrsImp-Dmg/Rchg(3), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(5), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(5), TchofDth-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Hide -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(7), Ksm-ToHit+(45)
Level 2: Sweeping Cross -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Arm-Acc/Rchg(9), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Arm-Dam%(11), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(13)
Level 4: Boundless Energy -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(25), PwrTrns-EndMod(27)
Level 6: Assassin's Strike -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(21), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(25)
Level 8: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 10: Hardened Carapace -- Ags-ResDam(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(19), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 12: Environmental Modification -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Rct-Def(29), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(29), Rct-Def/EndRdx(50), Rct-Def/Rchg(50)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Adaptation 
Level 18: Spinning Strike -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(31), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(33)
Level 20: Ablative Carapace -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(33), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34), UnbGrd-Max HP%(34), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(34), GldArm-3defTpProc(36)
Level 26: Shin Breaker -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(37), AchHee-ResDeb%(37)
Level 28: DNA Siphon -- Erd-Dmg/Rchg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), TchoftheN-%Dam(39), Erd-%Dam(39), ScrDrv-Dam%(40), Obl-%Dam(40)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(40)
Level 32: Crushing Uppercut -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Hct-Acc/Rchg(42), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Hct-Dam%(43), UnbCns-Dam%(43)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(43)
Level 38: Parasitic Aura -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 41: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 44: Zapp -- StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(A), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(45), StnoftheM-Acc/ActRdx/Rng(46), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), StnoftheM-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(48), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Assassination 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(15), Prv-Absorb%(15)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(17), PwrTrns-EndMod(17)
Level 1: Combo Level 1 
Level 1: Combo Level 2 
Level 1: Combo Level 3 
Level 16: Defensive Adaptation 
Level 16: Efficient Adaptation 
Level 16: Offensive Adaptation 
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally 
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
------------

 

And this are the times:

 

I could use a build for testing the Moonbeam rotations. Also my Recharge is not so high, ageless fixes a lot of it. Would it be OK to try the Rotations with Zapp? i mean i just used it as a set mule i almost never use it. I took that Pool mostly because of Ball Lightning. Getting a snipe with a good setbonus was just a nice addition.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Croax

[Dropwing]

Hi Flip, thanks for joining the discussion. It is worth noting when Hybrid Assault is toggled on as the standard Pylon rules don’t account for Hybrid toggled as it doesn’t have a 100% uptime. 

 

However since Croax seems to be sole person dedicated to testing the chains and consistently toggles it on, it is accounted for there. 
 

Further, your thoughts on the opener are interesting. Most people open with CU as it is faster than AS but also the most damaging with build up and the guaranteed Crit. It feels right. But you’re digging deeper. 
 

Since Homecoming people have begun to realize Stalkers are potent and their ATOs have made them even more so. However the stalker ATO procs while powerful behave in interesting ways. Some people have observed limitations such as Assassin’s Mark not firing if the power it is slotted in isn’t used on the map and others observing that the Hide proc seems to be on a cool down. 
 

On another note, this new opener could be useful in conjunction with the top attack chain in beating an extra Pylon Regen tick. 

[Croax]

I can test the pylon times without the hybrid toggled on. We should just make up our mind which requirements we want to use here. I like testing stuff so i have no problems to do it all again.

 

Also i would like to say that Zapp and Moonbeam deal the exact same damage and have same activation and cooldown. Only difference is moonbeam having access to a forth damage procc. 

 

And the StJ/Bio Build i used is my generell PVE build for this toon it is not optimised for pylon kill times. The StJ/EA i used for the first run has 45+Def to s/l/f/c/e/n and 75% S/L resist. Just to put it in perspective. While doing the tests i regularly get hit by the dropship but survive it and just keep going. Endurance never runs out. And the StJ/Bio has great Area Damage with Spinning Strike, Ball Lightning and DNASiphon. I could totally change the builds to only kill the pylon faster but i don't think that it is our goal here. 

 

Maybe Dropwing can define some terms on which the tests should be conducted. I am open for all approachs.

 

 

[flip]

1 hour ago, Dropwing said:

Hi Flip, thanks for joining the discussion. It is worth noting when Hybrid Assault is toggled on as the standard Pylon rules don’t account for Hybrid toggled as it doesn’t have a 100% uptime. 

 

Yep, as you said I just toggled it on for an even comparison with Croax's numbers. Without hybrid toggled I see numbers around 110 to 120 seconds, with my lowest time being 108 seconds. So I'm still a ways away from StrikerFox's 90 second times. I did a small amount of experimenting with heavier usage of procs as well and didn't manage to get any lower than 1:36. I didn't incorporate Heavy Blow to make up for the small gap thats pops up between Initial Strike and AS every 8 attacks, but I would venture a guess that that alone was not enough to dip my output by the ~6-7% difference between my lowest time and Striker's. Alas, his build secrets shall remain a mystery for the time being 😜

Edited September 10, 2020 by flip

[aethereal]

On 9/4/2020 at 2:47 PM, StrikerFox said:

It does sound like a sexy attack chain. Though I think it would fall behind, dps wise. Sacrificing damage procs chasing +recharge bonuses. 

I through together a first attempt at it on test, and it was disappointing.  Now, my build was not very refined, and it's possible that it just didn't come together in some way, but i think the problem was not that i was missing damage procs (I sacrificed survivability, not procs), but the hidden ten second cooldown on the hide proc.  The entire attack chain is less than ten seconds, so I think I created a situation where despite taking great pains to get better uptime on CU, I'm not really getting the benefit of that uptime.

 

EDIT:  Actually, this is a pretty important thing.  So, look, it's super easy to get your CU to have a total cooldown of less than 10 seconds.  It has a 25 second base cooldown, so 150% total recharge gets you to 10 seconds.  If you have perma-hasten, your global recharge alone will get CU down to less than 10 seconds.  But if you want to get most of your CUs to be crits, you need to use CU slightly less often than every 10 seconds.  This in turn means that you shouldn't really put any local recharge in CU (or very little, incidentally due to other advantageous slotting), giving you 90% proc rates with any proc that you might conceivably put in it (rather than my lower proc rates because I had 100% local recharge).

 

Some other notes:  If you're in some kind of attack chain where you fire Heavy Blow, Shin Breaker, and Assassin's strike twice and then CU and something else once each (like: shin breaker > heavy blow > assassin's strike > crushing uppercut > shin breaker > heavy blow > assassin's strike > sweeping cross or whatever), then the Hecatomb proc will give you more power in either shin breaker or assassin's strike than in CU.  It's probably ideally in assassin's strike in that case, where (assuming no local recharge) it has a 90% proc rate, but even if you have to put it in shin breaker, where it has a 70% proc rate, it's better to have two 70% procs per cycle than one 90% proc per cycle, by obviously a considerable margin.  I think this creates some build tension, because I think a lot of people are slotting CU as "five hecatomb + unbreakable constraint proc," but do note that that's a somewhat "bad" slotting.  Obviously, it can otherwise be tough to get the 10% recharge from Hecatomb.

Edited September 10, 2020 by aethereal
Added last two paragraphs.

[aethereal]

I've been trying to create an attack chain that's just slightly more than 10 seconds for a full rotation to maximize the use of the hide proc, and, weirdly, what this set could really would be "if Heavy Blow were half a fuckin' second longer to animate."  There's no really good way using just the powers in the set + Moonbeam to create this attack rotation.  What I want is:

 

Assassin's Strike > Crushing Uppercut > Shin Breaker > Moonbeam > ?? > Shin Breaker > repeat

 

Where ?? is a 1.5 second activation time attack with a good DPA.  Sweeping Cross ain't it, because it will only be at combo level 1, and it has pretty garbage DPA at combo level 1.  Spinning Strike always has garbage DPA.  So what about Cross Punch?

 

Did you know that Cross Punch, according to Rubi's API, has a 20% chance to apply a minor critical damage effect if the caster is a stalker and the target is sleeping or held?  What?  What the hell?  What even is that?  And Crushing Uppercut holds targets, and Cross Punch's DPA goes from garbage to not-entirely-garbage if this effect is included.  But, ultimately, I rejected this because Crushing Uppercut won't hold the EB-and-above targets that are the only conceivably important targets of a high-end stalker single-target attack chain.

 

So I don't know.

 

EDIT:  This sounds crazy, and hard-or-impossible to put into action, but the right thing to do might honestly be AS > CU > SB > MB > HB > SB > pause for 0.25 seconds > repeat.  Or build in a small gap in MB's activation time such that it eats a 0.25s gap.  That's crazy, right?  Intentionally have a two-arcana-time-ticks gap in your chain?  But it's only 2.5% of your total attack chain, and if it maximizes the chances of critting CU...  maybe?

 

EDIT2:  Probably I should just suck it up and do AS > CU > SB > MB > SC > SB.  Sweeping Cross doesn't have that bad DPA.  I just hate that it's chewing up combo that could profitably be going to CU, limiting the chance that a miss means a non-level-3 combo CU.  But even so, that attack chain has a 10.2 second repeat time, so it should clear CU up for reliable crits every cycle, you can put Hecatomb proc into Shin Breaker for twice-per-cycle chance to activate, and you can do the whole thing at completely reasonable levels of global recharge.

Edited September 10, 2020 by aethereal

[StrikerFox]

5 hours ago, aethereal said:

EDIT:  This sounds crazy, and hard-or-impossible to put into action, but the right thing to do might honestly be AS > CU > SB > MB > HB > SB > pause for 0.25 seconds > repeat. 

 

EDIT2:  Probably I should just suck it up and do AS > CU > SB > MB > SC > SB.  Sweeping Cross doesn't have that bad DPA.  I just hate that it's chewing up combo that could profitably be going to CU.

Edit 1: I think it will be a dps loss. AS is StJ's highest dps attack and it's only being used once every 10s. Other chains mentioned uses AS every 6ish secs.

 

Edit 2: I'm pretty sure AS builds 2 combo points so CU will be maxed unless AS or SB misses.

 

[aethereal]

47 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

Edit 1: I think it will be a dps loss. AS is StJ's highest dps attack and it's only being used once every 10s. Other chains mentioned uses AS every 6ish secs.

 

Edit 2: I'm pretty sure AS builds 2 combo points so CU will be maxed unless AS or SB misses.

AS does build 2 combo points, so CU will be maxed if both AS and SB hit, but that means that 10% of the time it won't be maxed (assuming max chance to hit), and 5% of the time it will be at combo level 1 instead of 2, which is a little brutal.  If you can build some redundancy in without losing much, that's nice.  If there was an attack that didn't burn combo that you could use in place of the relatively low-value sweeping cross, it'd feel good to have it in.  But there just isn't anything.

 

In terms of using AS more often, the issue with using it every 6 seconds is:

 

1.  If you do have a miss with AS (either the attack missing altogether or the proc failing to fire, so combined 14.5% chance per AS), you get "off-cycle" with your hide proc and you can spend substantial amounts of time wasting your auto-crit on something else -- including potentially sweeping cross in some of these attack chains, which is awful, because sweeping cross from hide doesn't even auto-crit.

 

2.  This also means that wherever you crit, whether you crit on CU or elsewhere, you're getting that crit every 12 seconds instead of every 10.

 

3.  You also have to build attack chains that are longer and use more "bad" attacks to do this.

 

4.  You then use CU less than you could, as well -- it's easy to get CU's recharge down well below 12 seconds, and it's the second-highest DPA attack in StJ.

 

So, I dunno.  Maybe it's a DPS loss and maybe it's not.  The point about AS being the best attack is well taken.  But if you lose about 40% of an AS in order to gain 20% of a CU plus 50% of a CU crit plus just not having another 2 seconds worth of "bad" attack in the attack chain altogether, is that worth it?  It's not obvious to me what the answer is.

 

EDIT:  If you could get the recharge of AS down to the point where you could fit two of them into a 10s or so attack chain, that would be amazing, but that takes you back up to heroic levels of recharge, like 200%+ global plus 100% local.

Edited September 10, 2020 by aethereal

[Croax]

This is so much Theorycrafting. could someone give me a attack chain and tell me which buffs to use not use? i would like to kill some more pylons.😜

 

Edit: You guys are also underselling SC because it is the only power that can slot the Fury of the Gladiator Debuff which adds to the overall dps!

Edited September 10, 2020 by Croax

[aethereal]

1 hour ago, Croax said:

Edit: You guys are also underselling SC because it is the only power that can slot the Fury of the Gladiator Debuff which adds to the overall dps!

Proc rate for it is kinda dismal, though, since it's an area attack.

 

But I think you're right, SC is a necessary evil.  If you wanna test something, I'd be interested in you testing:  Assassin's Strike > Crushing Uppercut > Shin Breaker > Moonbeam > Sweeping Cross > Shin Breaker.  If you don't, I will eventually.

Edited September 10, 2020 by aethereal

[Croax]

Ok i did that rotation and i used Build Up only right before AS not replacing any attack. I used the StJ/Bio Build up in this thread and the same conditions incarnates buffs and so on, since we did not agree on anything else. I used Zapp instead of Moonbeam and Zapp had only 5 pcs Manticore set. I think with another build you can squeeze a little bit more out of it. Just not so sure if it is worth the effort because the results are a little bit underwhelming:

94
109
101
88
90
100
101
99
106
105

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Croax

[aethereal]

99.3 average compared to 92.1 and 96 average doesn't seem awful to me.  I did a modified build and tested out, and got numbers more like averaging a bit over 90, but I didn't see any step-change function better than your previous tests.  I suspect I'm just not as good at doing these tests compared to you, though.

 

My differences:

 

Hecatomb proc in shin breaker, not crushing uppercut.  Kismet proc for increased accuracy.  Moonbeam 50-slotted with the ranged Purple + some other proc.  Assassin's strike has just three of the ATO (including the proc of course), a damage enhancement, and two damage procs, with very minimal local recharge to improve proccing.

 

Sorry, I'm on a mac with Catalina so I can't run mids and just share a build.

 

Doing these tests with Assault hybrid turned on is a nightmare, it slows it way down, since you have to wait for Assault hybrid to come off cooldown between every pylon.

[Croax]

As i said, we can agree to make these tests without any incarnates on. You can unslot incarnate powers, like it is done in PvP for fairness. Can you give me the build you used? then i could try it on the test server.

[aethereal]

3 hours ago, Croax said:

As i said, we can agree to make these tests without any incarnates on. You can unslot incarnate powers, like it is done in PvP for fairness. Can you give me the build you used? then i could try it on the test server.

Like I said, I can't use Mids, it doesn't run on Mac Catalina.  Closest I could do is screenshot the enhancement interface.

[Croax]

Let me redesign the build with moonbeam and i can post it here. If you think it is ok, i can try it with a proper moonbeam.

[aethereal]

1 hour ago, Croax said:

Let me redesign the build with moonbeam and i can post it here. If you think it is ok, i can try it with a proper moonbeam.

It's not really about moonbeam, zapp is basically as good.  I didn't proc it out to the point where I needed the extra damage proc for moonbeam.

 

Okay, so basically this:

 

Initial Strike: 3 slot with Superior Stalker's Guile:  Dam/Rech, Acc/Dam/Rech, Dam/End/Rech

Heavy Blow:  5 slot with Superior Blistering Cold

Sweeping Cross: 5 slot with Armageddon + Fury of the Gladiator Proc

Assassin's Strike: 3 slot with Super Stalker's Guile:  Acc/Dam, Proc, Acc/Dam/End/Rech, plus 50+5 common damage enh, plus touch of death proc + mako's proc

Build Up:  1-slot with Gaussian's proc

Shin Breaker:  50+5 Crushing Impact Acc/Dam, 50+5 Mako's Acc/Dam, Achilles heel proc, Mako's proc, Touch of Death proc, Hecatomb proc.

Crushing Uppercut:  5-slot with Hecatomb (minus the proc) + Unbreakable Constraint proc

Spinning Strike:  6-slot with Superior Assassin's Mark.

Moonbeam or Zapp:  5-slot with Apocalype (not the pure damage one) + Sting of the Manticore proc

 

I got Assault.  Probably would've been a good idea to get Tactics for a bit more Moonbeam damage, but I failed to.

 

For everything else, just, you know, two-slot hasten and work on survivability and global recharge.  I didn't have to touch a defensive clicky during the pylon fights.

 

Musculature, Degenerative, Ageless, Assault, all Core/left side.

 

Make sure you use Spinning Strike on some trash mob in the zone before engaging to engage the global proc.

 

I'm not sure about the Crushing Uppercut slotting.  I wanted the recharge, but you could pretty easily marginally improve its damage by slotting it for acc/dam and then a bunch of procs.

Edited September 14, 2020 by aethereal
Ghetto build.

[Croax]

I made this here:

 

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Stalker
Primary Power Set: Street Justice
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Heavy Blow -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Hide -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(7), Ksm-ToHit+(7)
Level 2: Sweeping Cross -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Arm-Acc/Rchg(9), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(11), Arm-Dam%(11), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(13)
Level 4: Boundless Energy -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(17)
Level 6: Assassin's Strike -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(19), Dmg-I(21), Mk'Bit-Dam%(21), TchofDth-Dam%(23)
Level 8: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 10: Hardened Carapace -- Ags-ResDam(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(23), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 12: Environmental Modification -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Rct-Def(27), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(27), Rct-Def/EndRdx(29), Rct-Def/Rchg(29)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Adaptation 
Level 18: Spinning Strike -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(31), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(33)
Level 20: Ablative Carapace -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(33), Prv-Heal(34), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(34), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(34), Prv-Absorb%(36)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(36), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36), UnbGrd-Max HP%(37), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(37), GldArm-3defTpProc(37)
Level 26: Shin Breaker -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(39), Mk'Bit-Dam%(39), TchofDth-Dam%(39), Hct-Dam%(40), AchHee-ResDeb%(40)
Level 28: DNA Siphon -- SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(42)
Level 32: Crushing Uppercut -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Hct-Acc/Rchg(43), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Hct-Dmg(43), UnbCns-Dam%(45)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(45)
Level 38: Parasitic Aura -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A)
Level 41: Moonbeam -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Apc-Acc/Rchg(46), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Apc-Dam%(46), StnoftheM-Dam%(48)
Level 44: Soul Storm -- UnbCns-Hold(A), UnbCns-Hold/Rchg(48), UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg(48), UnbCns-Acc/Rchg(50), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold(50)
Level 47: Shadow Meld -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Assassination 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PwrTrns-+Heal(15), PwrTrns-EndMod(17)
Level 1: Combo Level 1 
Level 1: Combo Level 2 
Level 1: Combo Level 3 
Level 16: Defensive Adaptation 
Level 16: Efficient Adaptation 
Level 16: Offensive Adaptation 
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally 
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
------------

 

If this is OK i would take it to the Pylons.

[aethereal]

Looks decent!

[Croax]

Now i was shocked by my pylon times today:

 

108

117

130

102 (Switched Builds) 93 96 99 (Switch Builds)

116 Gave up

 

I was thinking i did something wrong and changed the build to my Zapp Build and used the Rotation again. i would reach ~95 seconds with the Zapp build. I can not understand why the difeerence is so big and the Soul-Build sloting wields such worse results. unfortunately i can not make videos so that you can analyse them. But believe me when i say that the Mu Build is better than the Soul build and procing out AS and Shinbreaker seems like a bad idea.

 

I think i will settle with the rotation that Strikerfox and I used and will simply try to skip a heavyblow every now and then. If someone could support me with a PvE Build that has very high recharge i could try the more "theoretical" rotations. But since i tend to use these Toons on generell PvE content i want something that is not purely designed to kill a pylon. On my Zapp Build i have Ball Lightning and a Procced out DNA Siphon to support Area Damage for example. That is more designed the way i like to play it.

 

But i am still willing to test other Builds and rotations!

Edited September 15, 2020 by Croax

[aethereal]

2 hours ago, Croax said:

Now i was shocked by my pylon times today:

 

108

117

130

102 (Switched Builds) 93 96 99 (Switch Builds)

116 Gave up

 

I was thinking i did something wrong and changed the build to my Zapp Build and used the Rotation again. i would reach ~95 seconds with the Zapp build. I can not understand why the difeerence is so big and the Soul-Build sloting wields such worse results. unfortunately i can not make videos so that you can analyse them. But believe me when i say that the Mu Build is better than the Soul build and procing out AS and Shinbreaker seems like a bad idea.

 

I think i will settle with the rotation that Strikerfox and I used and will simply try to skip a heavyblow every now and then. If someone could support me with a PvE Build that has very high recharge i could try the more "theoretical" rotations. But since i tend to use these Toons on generell PvE content i want something that is not purely designed to kill a pylon. On my Zapp Build i have Ball Lightning and a Procced out DNA Siphon to support Area Damage for example. That is more designed the way i like to play it.

 

But i am still willing to test other Builds and rotations!

Huh.  I've had way better results than that.  Like, even with my kind of clumsy setup in which I'm pretty sure I lose at least 5 seconds just starting and stopping the timer, and where I have several times self-sabotaged by imagining I can jump to the end of the thing and use my heavy attacks out-of-order to get the last few percent of health and then had my cooldowns get screwed up, I've never gone above 97 seconds.

 

But thanks for trying it out!

[StrikerFox]

It seems like testing results is getting skewed. It should be more systematic. If a build is created, all chains should be tested with that one build. Testing one chain with one build, then testing a different chain with a different build, isn't an apples to apples comparison.

 

Only Alpha and Interface should be active while pylon testing. Hybrid toggled has a 50% up/down time so it doesn't add consistent dps. The results with Hybrid on is only achievable half the time.

 

Variances of 102s-130s pylon times should be explainable. Misclicks or miscellaneous rng.  Misses, damage/debuff procs not firing, less instant BU from one run to the next etc. They all tack on time. We can't post videos from HC but record/view it for your own analysis. The main thing to look for is that CU always crits. I also recommend going in game to MENU, OPTIONS, WINDOWS tab, CHAT and enable LOG CHAT. Create a new chat window that only displays DAMAGE INFLICTED. 

 

It will create a log in your CoH folder and display damage data. It also provides a more accurate time than using a stop watch. Start time is the initial power used and finishing time is the, "You have defeated Rikti Pylon," line. Subtract the initial time from the end time. The below example shows a pylon being defeated in 2:02/122s.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
2020-04-16 23:44:46 You activated the Build Up power.
2020-04-16 23:44:46 HIT Halley Comet! Your Build Up power is autohit.
2020-04-16 23:44:46 Halley Comet HITS you! Build Up power was autohit.
2020-04-16 23:44:47 Readying Assassin's Strike.
2020-04-16 23:44:47 You start Assassin's Strike.
2020-04-16 23:44:49 Readying Concentrated Strike.
2020-04-16 23:44:49 You activated the Assassin's Strike power.

*SNIP*

2020-04-16 23:46:48 You hit Rikti Pylon with your Hecatomb: Chance for Negative Energy Damage for 85.66 points of Negative Energy damage.
2020-04-16 23:46:48 You hit Rikti Pylon with your Degenerative Interface for 8.56 points of Toxic damage over time.
2020-04-16 23:46:48 You have defeated Rikti Pylon
------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Thanks for all the testing. In my head, I don't see the 10s chain being better but I've been proven wrong many times before. 

[Croax]

@StrikerFox thank you for this tipp. I did not know about the combat log. I will do the test with Assault equiped but not toggled on. Also Alpha and Interface equiped. What about Ageless? Are we allowing ageless to be active or not? It concernes the endurance consumption a lot. The Rotation and recharge is usually fine.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Croax

[aethereal]

2 hours ago, StrikerFox said:

It seems like testing results is getting skewed. It should be more systematic. If a build is created, all chains should be tested with that one build. Testing one chain with one build, then testing a different chain with a different build, isn't an apples to apples comparison.

Wait, this doesn't make sense.  Attack chains and builds are interrelated, not independent.  A given build might not even take a power used in a given attack chain, or might take it but slot it as a mule or whatever.  A build designed for a given attack chain might push for far more recharge for a power than it needs for another attack chain.  An attack chain might not be gapless on build A, but is on build B.

 

I also just did another round of testing and did an 88 second time on the first pylon with my attack rotation (with assault hybrid toggled on -- I agree it should be off, but just apples-to-apples comparison since we've been doing it on).  I don't understand why Croax and I are getting such different results.

 

Okay, and here are my first two pylon results with my rotation, assault hybrid OFF:

 

113 seconds

119 seconds

 

Then I accidentally got killed by the dropship.  😛

Edited September 16, 2020 by aethereal

[StrikerFox]

7 hours ago, Croax said:

@StrikerFox thank you for this tipp. I did not know about the combat log. I will do the test with Assault equiped but not toggled on. Also Alpha and Interface equiped. What about Ageless? Are we allowing ageless to be active or not? It concernes the endurance consumption a lot. The Rotation and recharge is usually fine.

A lot of players say no to Destiny but I personally do not mind if it's used. It has a 100% uptime with diminishing return over 2 mins. Some peeps say if Destiny is used, it's cast time should be included in the pylon kill time.

 

6 hours ago, aethereal said:

Wait, this doesn't make sense.  Attack chains and builds are interrelated, not independent.  A given build might not even take a power used in a given attack chain, or might take it but slot it as a mule or whatever.  A build designed for a given attack chain might push for far more recharge for a power than it needs for another attack chain.  An attack chain might not be gapless on build A, but is on build B.

 

Okay, and here are my first two pylon results with my rotation, assault hybrid OFF:

 

113 seconds

119 seconds

What are the outlying powers in the attack chains listed by Croax at the top of this page? MB which is easily integrated without altering IO slotting of a build. SS, maybe SC, but I think most builds take them anyways just because they're AoE. Croax posted a build that could run his chain, Microcosm, your second chain and my chain. You posted a reply saying you altered it by switching procs and splitting ATOs. If you want to find out which chain is better, more should be tested rather than just your own, on any given build.

 

I don't know. Maybe the build just needs to be worked on. 113s and 119s seem pretty average for a Stalker. 

[aethereal]

19 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

A lot of players say no to Destiny but I personally do not mind if it's used. It has a 100% uptime with diminishing return over 2 mins. Some peeps say if Destiny is used, it's cast time should be included in the pylon kill time.

 

What are the outlying powers in the attack chains listed by Croax at the top of this page? MB which is easily integrated without altering IO slotting of a build. SS, maybe SC, but I think most builds take them anyways just because they're AoE. Croax posted a build that could run his chain, Microcosm, your second chain and my chain. You posted a reply saying you altered it by switching procs and splitting ATOs. If you want to find out which chain is better, more should be tested rather than just your own, on any given build.

 

I don't know. Maybe the build just needs to be worked on. 113s and 119s seem pretty average for a Stalker. 

So for example my build can't run your attack chain, I think, because it has less recharge in Assassin's Strike than is needed for your two-AS's-in-one-12-second-or-so chain.

 

Conversely, my build doesn't go crazy on proccing Moonbeam, but if your attack chain doesn't use Moonbeam (or Zapp, whichever) at all (as Croax's attack chain did not), at least one slot is going completely wasted in my build, since it's going to carry a proc which isn't giving a set bonus in Moonbeam.  And honestly maybe the power pick is going wasted too, it's mostly providing some global recharge that I think none of these builds really need.  My build uses tactics, which I don't think is necessary to hit things, but I chose to try to improve the damage of Moonbeam.  My build 5-slots HB with Superior Blistering Cold for the S/L defense, because it doesn't use HB in its attack chain, but your attack chain uses HB.

 

Build and attack chain just can't be separated from each other.

 

I definitely think that my build needs work -- it is really hard to try to wring all the juice out of a build without Mids.  Doing stuff through the respec tool, even on test where everything is free, is just much, much, much more clumsy than doing it in Mids.

Edited September 16, 2020 by aethereal