i did something wrong right??

[rockroom]

there no way these numbers are right... and tbh dont know how to check pets numbers in mids

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
[code]| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

 

 

 

have 300mil so this is within what i can afford.. but is this real or am i missing something. cause god dam

[TheSpiritFox]

Its a pretty solid build. Yeah you can with bots and time softcap yourself and your pets at the same time. 

 

The bad news is, with no immob and no sudden accelerations anywhere, your  bots are going to throw the entire level around all tf over the place. 

 

This build will survive just about any content, but the bot knockbacks might drive teams a little crazy sometimes, and your single target damage is going to be pretty apallingly low with your aoe damage being average because this build will not help you keep mobs together such that assault bot burn missiles spawn 16 burn patches cause 16 enemies are in the radius to do it and then melting the entire group in seconds. 

 

When this build works perfectly it will be a sight to behold. 

When you face anything with slow resistance to run out of your time powers, this build is going to be an annoying nightmare of safe and miserably slow DPS. 

 

I would check, but with this build your protector bots are the ones I would worry about. They almost certainly are below softcap and you not only have no attacks but have no provoke or anything else to keep aggro on you once the aoes start firing, so you might also consider that softcapping yourself is overkill and you'll be happy and safe while resummoning protector bots cause they're not softcapped on a very regular basis. 

 

Also, replace the recharges in your upgrade powers with +5 endurance reduction IOs. You'll thank me later. 

 

Last minor change suggestion? The resistance/endurance from steadfast protection out of tough (you're over softcap, you genuinely do not need it) and take one slot out of hasten. +5 both of the hasten IOs and drop an extra fly speed IO into each fly and group fly.  Also, switch fly and hover. You want some kinda travel power and hovering up places at early levels is going to suck. You don't need hover except as a mule anyway. 

 

The biggest danger to this build? Protector bot bubbles last 2 mins. And they have to reapply bubbles to everyone. If the protector bots go down around when their shields expire, this build can quickly cascade fail as everyone on the team including you drops below the softcap and your bots start eating dirt. While your defenses are solid, the bots don't have a ton of resistance to them, so if defenses go down (or you face heavy defense debuffs) you're as subject to cascade failure as a blaster with a softcap build and zero defense debuff resistance. Ageless radial for def debuff resistance might be a good choice for destiny. 

 

If you want me to tell you how I'd change this? Simple. I'd take mu, get electric fences, slot it for damage over immobilize duration (you still get a resistance shield along with it) and I'd probably replace hover with vengeance or if at all possible, afterburner. Group fly is fun, it's pretty, but in the vast majority of circumstances it's clunky. If you're not in an outdoor map, or a circle of thorns multilevel nightmare room, it's basically useless. Afterburner will give you much more mileage and being able to fly only like 6mph slower than the top speed super speed can hit is pretty nice when you wanna get somewhere. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by TheSpiritFox

[Verix]

Here's a couple of scattered thoughts:

 

Bots were my first love as MM - but they are at a disadvantage to demon/thugs (maybe others) due to the ability of those primary sets to be able to slot 6 more 'things' into the pets. For example with thugs and gang war you can use that power to hold some of the resistance buffs for pets.

 

Accuracy bonuses from set bonuses do not apply to pets - you might feel some pain with the accuracy levels on your lowest level bots in +4/8 missions. You can for sure take the damage but can you dish it out?

 

It seems to me you kinda wasted some of your slots with your healing powers (and your endurance). Take a look at what you get for spending 9 slots : I think you could do a lot better (being speculative about what you want in the build overall).  You could have 192% recovery instead of 188 by slotting an endurance recovery instead of the third performance shifter: accuracy/endurance. That lowers your hp by 15 (but you will never notice with those thick defenses you have). You do not need to three slot hasten with time secondary. Why? Without them you have 85% haste (which you could improve if you wanted with some cleaner slotting in your heal set bonuses).

 

This may seem like a random question but : what personal attack are you planning on boosting with assault core? It's not very much fun to try and use with pets.

 

Also you don't need rebirth with time secondary as you have 2 heals that will affect you and a single target regen for one of your bots (not you).

 

I think you want to read this link that Force Redux posted for MM about incarnate choices (about 3 posts down):

 

1 hour ago, TheSpiritFox said:

Also, replace the recharges in your upgrade powers with +5 endurance reduction IOs. You'll thank me later. 

 

Group fly is fun, it's pretty, but in the vast majority of circumstances it's clunky. If you're not in an outdoor map, or a circle of thorns multilevel nightmare room, it's basically useless. Afterburner will give you much more mileage and being able to fly only like 6mph slower than the top speed super speed can hit is pretty nice when you wanna get somewhere. 

I also have to emphasize these two points.

 

Once upon a time with live you had to upgrade every pet with both upgrades - it was the main reason a MM needed hasten. Now the upgrades are universal. Go with reduce endurance on ugprade powers.

 

Afterburner lets you slot another luck of the gambler but group fly does not. If this game were fair- it would give Mastermind pets a 'copy' of the power their master used with a 25% speed boost so they would always be right behind you.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Verix

[Verix]

Logged in to double check but my incarnates look like this:

 

Alpha : Musculature Core - Why?  More damage for pets

mids values show:

Thugs go from 89.93 to 126.16

Enforcers go from 97.94 to 130.19

Bruiser goes from 96.92 to 129.17

 

 

Judgment : ion Core - Why? Fire and forget more damage on more targets

 

Interface : Degen Radial - Why? Plenty of pets to proc the -hp debuff with 25% chance.

 

Destiny : Clarion Core    - Why? Free on demand break free (and the lasting buff prevents it from happening again)

 

Hybrid: Support Core - Why?  I took this to give the pets more stamina (as well as for all the other buffs) and it makes a world of difference. In mids Support Core shows a 12% boost in damage. It also gives a defense boost

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Verix

[rockroom]

so the walls of text just confused me more then anything lol. 

 

if one of you cna maybe give me a bot/dark and bot time with at most the class IO,s ill use that..

 

this was my first atempt at a build.. i like demons more the bot. but have a soft spot for bot cause my first 50 ever in the old days was a bot/ff

[tidge]

I didn't open the build, but what is the vision for having Hasten in Bots/Time? I run Bots/Traps and don't need it... is there some long recharge /Time power that is crucial?

 

I can understand shooting for something like rapid-recharging Gang War, but otherwise I suspect too much Global recharge would turn into an Endurance sink for MMs.

 

[Verix]

9 hours ago, rockroom said:

this was my first atempt at a build.. i like demons more the bot. but have a soft spot for bot cause my first 50 ever in the old days was a bot/ff

 

I love bots too - but the slotting on thugs >>> bots so I made a thug mm.  If you like demons - Force Redux made a nice post about demons/dark (with a mids build).

 

4 hours ago, tidge said:

I can understand shooting for something like rapid-recharging Gang War, but otherwise I suspect too much Global recharge would turn into an Endurance sink for MMs.

 

My build is thugs time (work in progress - but will post soon™ when I have everything slotted) so I wanted hasten for gang war - and everything else. The Judgement power is great because you can have it deal like 600 damage (mids value) before reduction for zero slots. But I would go haste even if I had made bots because why not do everything faster?  When you get everything working just right haste is there to cast things on your time when you want them. Before you get there however I like haste to : resummon your pets with less delay (things happen while leveling), heal your pets more often, and throw whatever power more often.  With haste+chrono shift my haste value is 235% and without those it is 115%. To make a long story short -haste is worth it on a MM because you want to be able to do all the things you 6 slotted way more often.

 

Endurance was only an issue before I slotted stamina with : 1 Endurance modification IO, and then 2 performance shifter (end mod/performance shifter). I could literally walk around with my primary heal on autocast and not feel any End drain (just under 6 seconds without either speed increase active).  The support core is to help my pets with stamina - not me.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Verix

[TheSpiritFox]

8 hours ago, tidge said:

I didn't open the build, but what is the vision for having Hasten in Bots/Time? I run Bots/Traps and don't need it... is there some long recharge /Time power that is crucial?

 

I can understand shooting for something like rapid-recharging Gang War, but otherwise I suspect too much Global recharge would turn into an Endurance sink for MMs.

 

How the hell do you run a traps build without hasten?

 

Like I've got acid mortar down to a 25 second recharge, its up every single group and they double stack on each other. Poison trap 25 second recharge for permanent -1000% regen to everything all the time plus I slotted it for hold with a few procs so it like holds things for a long ass while. Seekers up every group for alpha taking. Triage beacon double stacked is actually really solid for keeping things alive in long fights and you gotta get that down to a minute recharge to do it. Caltrops on a 15 second recharge so you can have 3 patches of them out at once. 

Traps more than any other MM secondary needs hasten to really flourish, I'm really curious what your recharge times are and what you built it for

 

[tidge]

1 hour ago, TheSpiritFox said:

How the hell do you run a traps build without hasten?

 

Like I've got acid mortar down to a 25 second recharge, its up every single group and they double stack on each other. Poison trap 25 second recharge for permanent -1000% regen to everything all the time plus I slotted it for hold with a few procs so it like holds things for a long ass while.

 

Without Incarnates, no Hasten, and no +Recharge procs: Acid Mortar is 36.37 sec, Poison Trap is 39.34 sec. Caltrops is 22.62 sec. At some point there is diminishing returns, I don't see an advantage to cutting those seconds off of the recharge times for those powers.

 

When not setting Traps, I'm using Photon Grenade, Mace Beam Volley, and Pulse Rifle Burst with Knockdowns and -Res (2 AoE, 1 ST) (on top of -Res from the Acid Mortar and its procs) to draw aggro and keep large groups of enemies in one place for the Bots. I could have opted for Web Envelope for an AoE Immbolize instead of Pulse Rifle Burst, but I prefer to have the enemies to come running to me.

 

My build only has 1 Purple piece (Soulbound Allegience %Build up) so it isn't like I broke the bank on Very Rare bonuses.

Edited December 18, 2020 by tidge
At first, included +recharge from an attack with Force Feedback. Corrected.

[TheSpiritFox]

4 hours ago, tidge said:

Without Incarnates, no Hasten, and no +Recharge procs: Acid Mortar is 36.37 sec, Poison Trap is 39.34 sec. Caltrops is 22.62 sec. At some point there is diminishing returns, I don't see an advantage to cutting those seconds off of the recharge times for those powers.

 

When not setting Traps, I'm using Photon Grenade, Mace Beam Volley, and Pulse Rifle Burst with Knockdowns and -Res (2 AoE, 1 ST) (on top of -Res from the Acid Mortar and its procs) to draw aggro and keep large groups of enemies in one place for the Bots. I could have opted for Web Envelope for an AoE Immbolize instead of Pulse Rifle Burst, but I prefer to have the enemies to come running to me.

 

My build only has 1 Purple piece (Soulbound Allegience %Build up) so it isn't like I broke the bank on Very Rare bonuses.

Thats fair, I throw a billion at every single 50 I make and if that's not enough I throw more lol. 

 

Especially my masterminds. Every IO is either attuned or a purple boosted to +5, or a generic boosted to +5. Even the single accuracy in goddamn web grenade is +5. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by TheSpiritFox

[tidge]

Interesting.

 

Attuning really shouldn't cost anything extra in the Homecoming system... at most it would be the purchase/listing fee of an un-attuned piece. Of course, once you start playinglvl 50s, each can get a single catalyst drop per day, so avoiding the market is possible.

 

Since my Bots/Traps doesn't really need recharge, and I have the Leadership pool for the pets (for +ToHit), I didn't find the Very Rare (Purple) or Winter IO pieces to be that important. In general, I see the Very Rares set bonuses as a source of global +Accuracy and Recharge and the Winter ATOs as sources of Resistances (and occasionally Defenses, if I dedicate enough slots)... but I'm not trying to play the MM as the source of steady damage, so without a recharge-intensive pet power in the build I just don't fret Recharge. For similar reasons, the only (non-common) boosted pieces I think I have in the build may be:

• A Gladiator's Net Recharge/Hold (may actually be Acc/End/Rech/Hold) in Poison Trap
• Blessing of the Zephyr Fly/End in Fly

As for set bonus choices: Instead I opted to go heavier for +MaxEnd, Endurance Discounts, and +HP set bonuses. Three big (10%) global +Recharge bonuses are available if you spread out one of the ATOs. This has resulted in several IO set choices that I would never make on other characters, including:

• Limited franken-slotting the Poison Trap with Gladiator's Net (x2) and Ghost Widow's Embrace (x4)... I'd rather have the set bonuses than any more %damage from procs (it has two, I know it could have more)
• Four instances of the Annihilation %-Res piece (3 of them get the x2 set bonus and 2 instances get the x5 set bonuses)... I know they don't stack (by themselves), but they do extend the debuff times, which I find very valuable with the otherwise low damage (DoT) Bots.
• Extremely limited use of %damage procs in the MM's powers. Instead I leverage them all to make it easier for the Bots to clean up: I lean heavily into the debuffs (including %-Resistance) or control (Knockdown).

I'm well aware that the terrible damage scale for MM attacks makes them a prime candidate to leverage %damage procs, but my build is focused on using those powers as force-multipliers for the hench-bots rather than trying to make my own character (slightly) more offensive. The endurance costs of the MM attacks are quite nasty, so even using them without more global recharge (from Hasten) makes my build run hot... which was one of the main drivers of my initial reaction.

 

(The above describes my standard Bots/Traps MM build... let's not discuss the disappointment that is a "One Big Robot" or "Petless" builds).

 

 

[TheSpiritFox]

On 12/18/2020 at 7:37 AM, tidge said:

Interesting.

 

Attuning really shouldn't cost anything extra in the Homecoming system... at most it would be the purchase/listing fee of an un-attuned piece. Of course, once you start playinglvl 50s, each can get a single catalyst drop per day, so avoiding the market is possible.

 

Since my Bots/Traps doesn't really need recharge, and I have the Leadership pool for the pets (for +ToHit), I didn't find the Very Rare (Purple) or Winter IO pieces to be that important. In general, I see the Very Rares set bonuses as a source of global +Accuracy and Recharge and the Winter ATOs as sources of Resistances (and occasionally Defenses, if I dedicate enough slots)... but I'm not trying to play the MM as the source of steady damage, so without a recharge-intensive pet power in the build I just don't fret Recharge. For similar reasons, the only (non-common) boosted pieces I think I have in the build may be:

• A Gladiator's Net Recharge/Hold (may actually be Acc/End/Rech/Hold) in Poison Trap
• Blessing of the Zephyr Fly/End in Fly

As for set bonus choices: Instead I opted to go heavier for +MaxEnd, Endurance Discounts, and +HP set bonuses. Three big (10%) global +Recharge bonuses are available if you spread out one of the ATOs. This has resulted in several IO set choices that I would never make on other characters, including:

• Limited franken-slotting the Poison Trap with Gladiator's Net (x2) and Ghost Widow's Embrace (x4)... I'd rather have the set bonuses than any more %damage from procs (it has two, I know it could have more)
• Four instances of the Annihilation %-Res piece (3 of them get the x2 set bonus and 2 instances get the x5 set bonuses)... I know they don't stack (by themselves), but they do extend the debuff times, which I find very valuable with the otherwise low damage (DoT) Bots.
• Extremely limited use of %damage procs in the MM's powers. Instead I leverage them all to make it easier for the Bots to clean up: I lean heavily into the debuffs (including %-Resistance) or control (Knockdown).

I'm well aware that the terrible damage scale for MM attacks makes them a prime candidate to leverage %damage procs, but my build is focused on using those powers as force-multipliers for the hench-bots rather than trying to make my own character (slightly) more offensive. The endurance costs of the MM attacks are quite nasty, so even using them without more global recharge (from Hasten) makes my build run hot... which was one of the main drivers of my initial reaction.

 

(The above describes my standard Bots/Traps MM build... let's not discuss the disappointment that is a "One Big Robot" or "Petless" builds).

 

 

On traps I slot recharge first, endurance recovery second, and those are my only slotting priorities. Any set that can take 5 purple pieces for the 10% gets them, LOTGs thrown in at every opportunity, along with hasten. I don't take personal attacks because with the cast times of traps and the recharge of my build, if I really want to I can basically just chain cast traps across the battlefield pretty well. Being able to easily stack 2 acid mortars and keep them out permanently once the second one goes down does a ton for team DPS, even poison can't debuff both defense and resistance and regen as much as I can on multiple targets, and that's before procs. 

 

I do also use recharge to leverage proc damage as much as I can. Caltrops is 5 procs and 1 endurance reduction, bonfire is 5 procs and 1 endurance reduction, poison trap and acid mortar each get a purple set with the purple proc plus one more proc for recharge, 2 procs, etc. 

 

My pools on my bots and thugs traps both are leadership, aid pool, speed, and leaping. I run super speed permanently with the celerity set which lowers the aggro I get and makes running into groups to drop an initial poison trap much less dangerous, and super jump I take cause I have the space and slots for it and I wanna be able to move vertically.  I don't bother with fitness pool on MMs, or provoke. I build around pets tanking and keeping them alive through it. My MMs that aren't traps usually replace aid pool with team TP for the support. Take super speed at 6 and team TP before 20 and I can be the stealth bot anytime I need to. Helps a ton on speed runs. Just let the pets die as I run through shit and resummon when I get there.