Is Range overrated?

[Ankhammon]

Was working on a new Sonic/Bio and came up with a crazy idea. What if I go for range and cones? So Here's what I came up with for an unusual build working cones/range/regen. If they never get into range, they can't really hurt you.

 

What do you guys think?

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.1.25
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

An unusual thought: Level 50 Magic Sentinel
Primary Power Set: Sonic Attack
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Scream -- SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), SprSntWar-Dmg/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Hardened Carapace -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(9), RctArm-ResDam(27), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(27), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(29)
Level 2: Howl -- SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(37), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(40), PstBls-Dam%(40), JvlVll-Dam%(43)
Level 4: Environmental Adaptation -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(9), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(11), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(11), Rct-ResDam%(13)
Level 6: Shout -- SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), SprSntWar-Rchg/+Absorb(7)
Level 8: Amplify -- AdjTrg-Rchg(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(33)
Level 10: Adaptation
Level 12: Shockwave -- SprOppStr-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(36), FrcFdb-Rechg%(36), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(46), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(50)
Level 14: Inexhaustible -- NmnCnv-Heal(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(15), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(15), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 16: Ablative Carapace -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A), Prv-Heal(17), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(17), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(21), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(21), Prv-Absorb%(23)
Level 18: Sirens Song -- SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprOppStr-Rchg/+Opportunity(19), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(19), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(34), PstBls-Dam%(34), Range-I(36)
Level 20: Rebuild DNA -- DctWnd-Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal(29), DctWnd-EndRdx/Rchg(31), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(31), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 22: Hover -- BlsoftheZ-Travel(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(23)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Screech -- Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Apc-Dmg(33), Apc-Dam%(34)
Level 28: Athletic Regulation -- Frb-Fly(A)
Level 30: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(48)
Level 32: Dreadful Wail -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg(48), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(48)
Level 35: Genomic Evolution -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(37), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Parasitic Leech -- TchoftheN-%Dam(A), TchoftheN-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(39), ThfofEss-Heal/Rchg(39), ThfofEss-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 41: School of Sharks -- GrvAnc-Hold%(A), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(42), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(42), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(42), PstBls-Dam%(43), Ann-ResDeb%(43)
Level 44: Arctic Breath -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(45), TchofLadG-%Dam(45), ImpSwf-Dam%(45), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(46), PstBls-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Opportunity
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(50)
Level 10: Defensive Adaptation
Level 10: Efficient Adaptation
Level 10: Offensive Adaptation
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
Level 50: Clarion Radial Epiphany
Level 50: Support Radial Embodiment
------------

 

 

[oldskool]

11 hours ago, Ankhammon said:

So Here's what I came up with for an unusual build working cones/range/regen. If they never get into range, they can't really hurt you.

 

What do you guys think?

 

1) Range and building for it is overrated on Sentinels, in my opinion.  The default range with hover is more than enough to avoid melee damage.   

2) Building for regen rate is a waste of resources.  Build for hit points and recharge (you want those clicky powers in Bio available often). 

[Ankhammon]

While this might be overkill (won't know till i try it), I do disagree with your assessment on range. The advantage being the end radius of the cone itself. and at something close to 140 yds it should be quite large.

 

The other thought on this char is that I should be able to ignore most damage assuming I can get high enough to be out of standard ranged attacks. This would be why I thought regen would be the superior focus on defense. that and the fact that the cones themselves have a pretty decent amount of mitigation in them.

[Hjarki]

Ranged cones are hit-or-miss.

 

If you slot them well, you can cover certain spawns that no conventional AE could cover. You can nuke entire trains following you.

 

Unfortunately, there are plenty of places where this just doesn't work. The ceilings are too low, the corners too tight. You end up trying to use your Cone as a PBAoE that covers 1/12th the area of a normal PBAoE.

 

As a result, I think Cones only work well when they function in non-optimal circumstances. This is more common with melee sets, where certain sets have Cones that do enough damage to justify using them as part of a single target rotation.

 

 

[Ankhammon]

36 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

Ranged cones are hit-or-miss.

 

If you slot them well, you can cover certain spawns that no conventional AE could cover. You can nuke entire trains following you.

 

Unfortunately, there are plenty of places where this just doesn't work. The ceilings are too low, the corners too tight. You end up trying to use your Cone as a PBAoE that covers 1/12th the area of a normal PBAoE.

 

As a result, I think Cones only work well when they function in non-optimal circumstances. This is more common with melee sets, where certain sets have Cones that do enough damage to justify using them as part of a single target rotation.

 

 

I can definitely see where cones can be a pain in a lot of indoor missions.

 

One of the ideas of this would be to basically ruin most minions chances of doing any real damage to ya. That's why there is a few strategic procs placed in like school of sharks (hold proc) to help out the kback/down and sleep. Should be able to delay considerably up to lt level and by the time they get into range of me (assuming indoor mish) then I hit em with stun bomb and then stun single target to knock off at least one boss.  

and all that plays into the range bit. more area of coverage. 

 

I'm only level 39 with this guy but it's close enough to start planning anyway. 

[CaptTastic]

I absolutely love concept builds like this. Build creativity is very underrated in my opinion. Kudos to you. 

 

On the question itself, I think range as a mitigation tool is a little wasted on Sentinels as you already have all the mitigation you will ever really need. That goes even more so for top tier survival sets like Bio and Invul. If you are soloing at, say x4, you should have all the mitigation you need from Bio. If you are soloing at x8, the AoE cap will kick in and likely negate any advantage the cones are giving you. 

 

But all that aside, it's just theory on my part and will be fascinated to follow your findings from it. 

[Ankhammon]

I'll try to keep y'all updated. Early results are promising at level 39. The advantage of using Bio is pretty good as it gives a bonus to range in offensive mode in addition to the damage (and acc boost?).

 

Sonic Howl will bring up your inherent bar in one shot against a full group, so right now i'm using with Scream it to start the Defensive opportunity and with the cones i'm getting a huge amount of healing once it's in place. I get back to full health very fast.

Starting fights with Ablative, then howl, scream, aoe madness and maybe throw in a rebuild dna if i get in trouble. Plays very smooth so far.

 

Just added School of Sharks (went early on that) and it's already adding a lot to my survivability. Plus the sharks are just fun 🙂

 

I'm still on SOs but don't feel uncomfortable in a team going against +3/+8 and can survive with vitamins at +4/+8.

Solo I'm probably still on +1/+8 or maybe +2/+6 if i'm feeling up to it.

[oldskool]

27 minutes ago, Ankhammon said:

ISonic Howl will bring up your inherent bar in one shot against a full group, so right now i'm using with Scream it to start the Defensive opportunity and with the cones i'm getting a huge amount of healing once it's in place. I get back to full health very fast.

 

Definitely enjoy this for as long as it lasts.  You may know this, but this isn't how Opportunity bar building functions on all primaries.  Sonic Blast cones do this and Assault Rifle's Flamethrower does this (Buckshot *does not*).  

Some primaries can exploit a glitch and stack Opportunity (i.e., running both Offensive and Defensive simultaneously).  

Whenever the team gets around to "fixing" Sentinels I wouldn't be surprised to see all of this go the way of the dinosaur. 

[Hjarki]

20 hours ago, Ankhammon said:

I can definitely see where cones can be a pain in a lot of indoor missions.

It's more than just indoor missions. You can think of (most) ranged Cones as having a 'minimum range' attached to them. However, when you've aggro'd an entire spawn, they're going to make a strong effort to violate that 'minimum range'. Unless you're just alpha striking the entire spawn, it's pretty quickly going to fall into a shape that you can't manage with the Cone.

 

Nor do most controls work very well against this because they just spread the spawn further. Hitting a spawn with a Mag 3 immobilize means that the minions/lieutenants will stay nicely in place while the bosses keep on trucking. Even worse, as you shift up the difficulty levels, hard controls like Immobilize get significantly less effective.

 

That being said, Sonic Blast's Cones are unusually well-suited to avoiding this problem. You can slot both Overwhelming Force and Ragnarok into Howl, giving you about 44% chance to knockdown. Coupled with the double knockdown of Shockwave, that gives you about 2.44 knockdowns every 5 sec. Moreover, unlike hard controls which fade into uselessness as you level shift, knockdowns pretty much remain knockdowns. About the only enemies you'll face where knockdowns don't work are fliers and AV/GM. AV/GM aren't going to be subject to your hard controls anyway and most fliers will politely stay at the range you want them to be since they're ranged themselves.

 

Note: While slotting Ragnarok into Howl makes some sense, slotting Overwhelming Force will normally be a bad idea because you need it for Shockwave to suppress the KB. Both of these attacks have a lot fewer slots than you'd prefer - if you had 9 slots available for them, you could usefully fill them - so throwing away a slot on Sudden Acceleration normally isn't feasible.

[Ankhammon]

I'm  hoping to delay the return fire due to two of the cones having kdown and one with immob. The thought is to delay them closing the distance long enough to take out the minions and damage the lt's and bosses enough to make it a comfortable ride. Sharks for the win.

 

That said, the ragnarok in howl would give me a third kdown option. good thought.

 

and the immob might just work on that AV in two hits.

 

 

and Oldskool, I figured it might be something to be "looked at" but for now it's certainly enjoyable.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Ankhammon