Trying to perfect a proccy Fortunata melee hybrid

[Onlyasandwich]

Hello Arachnos land!

 

I have been trawling the forums, absorbing the many Fortunata and Widow builds out there, and seen many excellent discussions. My own Widow only just got to specialize, (mid 20's), and is on the way up right now.

 

Meanwhile, I've been trying to figure out what she's going to grow up to be. I have a build, and would love your thoughts on how I might better achieve my goals, or if indeed it looks to be 100% perfect (way to go Sandwich, best build ever, you're great, etc).

 

My goals here:

• Try to keep all positionals as close to 60 as possible in order to both help in incarnate content, and also make up for the weak DDR of the class.
• Keep Mind Link perma, or at least close enough. 
• With that achieved - squeeze as much damage as possible into the best quality powers.

 

Little notes to acknowledge:

• I do value -recharge protection, so that accounts for some perhaps slightly nontraditional uses of winter sets I have here.
• I am not a fan of Psychic Scream. I decided to invest in Soul mastery for dark oblit instead.
• I know that gaussian proc is generally more reliable in Aim, but I want to roll with it on tactical training for team time fun.

 

Where I feel this build could see improvement personally:

• A scoche more global recharge would be nice for Mind link and potentially perma hasten.
• I am really leaning on the scaling resists - I did not build aggressively for IO resist bonuses. This may be a problem in tough spots at times.
• In a perfect world, I'd drop maneuvers for TT: Assault. Currently, Maneuvers is mostly there to save a slot, less so for the extra push of defense, though it is nice.
• I'm not even sure how much I'll be using Gloom at all given my excellent melee chain. I was thinking Gloom+Dominate would be my "alt" attack chain for lethal resistant enemies or the odd ranged scenarios, but this might be a waste of time. I was considering switching gloom for tentacles (1 slot just for silliness), and shifting those slots to aura of confusion instead for better uptime, while preserving recharge bonuses.

 

Here is the build:

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Fortunata Training
Secondary Power Set: Fortunata Teamwork
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSpdBit-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprSpdBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprSpdBit-Rchg/Global Toxic(9)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 2: Strike -- HO:Nucle(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Mk'Bit-Dam%(39), TchofDth-Dam%(39), GldStr-%Dam(40)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Rct-ResDam%(A)
Level 8: Follow Up -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), GldStr-%Dam(11), TchofDth-Dam%(11), Mk'Bit-Dam%(50)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 12: Spin -- SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDmnofA-Dmg/Rchg(13), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SprDmnofA-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), SprDmnofA-Rchg/DmgFear%(50)
Level 14: Lunge -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Hct-Dam%(15), TchofDth-Dam%(40), Mk'Bit-Dam%(43), GldStr-%Dam(46)
Level 16: Combat Teleport -- BlsoftheZ-Travel(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(17), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(17), WntGif-ResSlow(34)
Level 18: Psionic Tornado -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), FrcFdb-Rechg%(19), ExpStr-Dam%(37), PstBls-Dam%(37), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(37)
Level 20: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(21), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(21), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(36), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(36), GssSynFr--Build%(36)
Level 22: Foresight -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(23), LucoftheG-Def(23)
Level 24: Mind Link -- Rct-Def/Rchg(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(25), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), AdjTrg-Rchg(31)
Level 26: Dominate -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), NrnSht-Dam%(27), GldJvl-Dam%(29), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(31), UnbCns-Dam%(31)
Level 28: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 30: Aim -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Psychic Wail -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Acc/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Arm-Dam%(34), Erd-%Dam(34)
Level 35: Mask Presence -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Aura of Confusion -- CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(A)
Level 41: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(42), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Apc-Dmg(42), Apc-Dam%(43), CldSns-%Dam(43)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(45), PstBls-Dam%(45), CldSns-%Dam(46), JvlVll-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-Travel(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(48), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(48)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning 
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 10: Shadow Recall -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(3), Prv-Absorb%(40)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(3)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
------------
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Edited April 30, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[Onlyasandwich]

I have an alternate build I am considering where I drop Soul mastery entirely in favor of some extra recharge and general utility.

 

Between Psionic Tornado, Spin, and Psychic Wail, I'm not exactly deficient  in aoes. Dark Oblit would give me closer to a seamless chain, but is it worth it? Gloom doesn't seem like it would get much use, as it doesn't mesh well with claws redraw given how much I would potentially be cycling it in.

 

I'm a bit torn! I'd love the advice of experienced Fortunata players to understand how much you value that extra bit of aoe power, whether in the form of psy scream or dark oblit.

 

Here is the alternate build, which drops Soul Mastery, but picks up Total domination for bonuses and general fun, and shifts slots to Aura of Confusion.

 

I picked up TT: Assault as a solid one slot wonder in this iteration. I sort of like the idea of sacrificing just a bit of aoe damage optimization for the full controllery fallbacks. I have two really solid large aoe controls that will even affect bosses with the included procs, and I can rotate them as needed. I also dropped the full 6 slot for Spider's bite and re-optimized a bit, as the set bonuses aren't really amazing for the purposes here.

 

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Fortunata Training
Secondary Power Set: Fortunata Teamwork
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(A), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(5), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg(7), SprSpdBit-Rchg/Global Toxic(9)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 2: Strike -- HO:Nucle(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Mk'Bit-Dam%(39), TchofDth-Dam%(39), GldStr-%Dam(40)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Rct-ResDam%(A)
Level 8: Follow Up -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), GldStr-%Dam(11), TchofDth-Dam%(11), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Mk'Bit-Dam%(50)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 12: Spin -- SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDmnofA-Rchg/DmgFear%(13), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SprDmnofA-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), Erd-%Dam(50)
Level 14: Lunge -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Hct-Dam%(15), TchofDth-Dam%(40), Mk'Bit-Dam%(43), GldStr-%Dam(46)
Level 16: Combat Teleport -- BlsoftheZ-Travel(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(17), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(17), WntGif-ResSlow(34)
Level 18: Psionic Tornado -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), FrcFdb-Rechg%(19), ExpStr-Dam%(37), PstBls-Dam%(37), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(37)
Level 20: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(21), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(21), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(36), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(36), GssSynFr--Build%(36)
Level 22: Foresight -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(23), LucoftheG-Def(23)
Level 24: Mind Link -- Rct-Def/Rchg(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(25), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), AdjTrg-Rchg(31)
Level 26: Dominate -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), Apc-Dam%(27), GldJvl-Dam%(29), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(31), UnbCns-Dam%(31)
Level 28: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 30: Aim -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Psychic Wail -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Acc/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Arm-Dam%(34), Erd-%Dam(34)
Level 35: Mask Presence -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Aura of Confusion -- CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(A), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(42), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(42), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(42), CrcPrs-Conf%(43)
Level 41: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Total Domination -- UnbCns-Hold(A), UnbCns-Hold/Rchg(45), UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg(45), UnbCns-Acc/Rchg(45), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold(46), Lck-%Hold(46)
Level 47: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-Travel(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(48), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(48)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning 
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 10: Shadow Recall -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(3), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(5), Prv-Absorb%(40)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(3)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
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Edited May 1, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[tidge]

Aura of Confusion is IMO a better proc-based (there are two %damage options) attack than it is for slotting Coercive Persuasion, IMO. Other folks will argue about trying to leverage the %Contagious confusion for "Bosses", but I strongly disagree with slotting the Coercive Persuasion set in the AOE (unless you don't take the single-target Confuse) because:

• You get experience and (more importantly, IMO) rolls on the drop tables if you do ANY damage to a critter before it is defeated. The %damage procs in the AoE do this for you.
• You don't REALLY want the bosses KOing the minions/LTs. You can take care of bosses without them being confused.
• The area and duration of %Contagious Confusion aren't that great when layered on top of the AoE Aura of Confusion.
• If you have Coercive Persuasion in Confuse, you can use that to toss at bosses if you wish (after the AoE) to get a much longer period of stacked confusion... plus the potential for the %Contagious Confusion.

Personally, I'd 3-slot Aura of Confusion (minimally) with two pieces of Malaise (A//Recharge, %Psi) to get the Recovery bonus and add the %Energy from Cacophany.  You really won't need the confusion to last very long (with all your AoE), so if you put extra slots into it I would just balance Accuracy and/or Recharge, probably using IOs.

 

Total Domination was something I played with but I found I didn't need in my attack/control chain. In my case, I was defeating enemies fast enough without it, and it wasn't up often enough to really make use of it (either as a control or as %damage dealer).

 

Can you explain your choice of slotting for Mind Link? The Recticle enhancements are a level 10-20 set, so you won't be getting as much recharge as you would from:

 

Level 24: Mind Link

• Adjusted Targeting - Recharge: Level 50
• Shield Wall - Defense/Recharge: Level 50
• Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
• Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All): Level 50
   

Where you boost the Shield Wall Def/Recharge to 50+5. (I dropped the global Shield Wall piece here because more recharge is past the point of diminishing returns, especially with Hasten), and I think you can boost the other pieces (Adjusted Targeting, Luck of the Gambler) to 50+5 to eek out more Defense and Recharge that will scale with exemplar since you won't be worried about set bonuses. (The PVP Shield Wall set should provide set bonuses all the way down)

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by tidge

[Onlyasandwich]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

Can you explain your choice of slotting for Mind Link? The Recticle

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply, Tidge.

 

Are you sure you're looking at the right build? I don't slot rectified reticle in Mind Link.

I am slotting:

• Adjusted targeting - Recharge
• Luck of the Gambler +global recharge
• Reactive Defense Def/Recharge
• Reactive defense def/end/recharge

The recharge enhancement is capped here. 

 

The shield wall set bonus isn't especially interesting to me, and reactive defense at least gives me some sort of not ignorable set bonus for only two pieces involved.

I could put the lotg +rech global elsewhere, but it would take an extra slot in any event. I may as well place it in the power where it provides the best return on defense totals.

 

As for the single target confuse, I don't currently have it in my build. I am not so committed to the confuse mechanic that I want both the ST and aoe confuse. Here it is just a sort of incidentally useful power that is giving me some nice IO bonuses. I am reserving my real attacks for optimized damage/proc slotting, so I have fewer places to otherwise insert purple set bonuses.

 

Total domination serves much the same purpose - nice IO bonuses (most importantly the purple 10% rech) and a fallback, fast-animation, reliable fight reset if my defenses get overwhelmed. Both of them affect bosses, will apply reliably, have good sized aoes, and are fast animating. I can cycle them for good uptime if needed against enemy types that are otherwise giving me issues.

 

It would not affect my build at all really to switch aura of confusion with confuse. I'll play with it and see what I think when I get there!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Onlyasandwich]

2 hours ago, tidge said:

boost the other pieces (Adjusted Targeting, Luck of the Gambler)

On this note, I was taught an important lesson in another thread recently. Boosting lotg +global recharge does indeed limit the global bonus's ability to exemplar with you. Unless the power is chosen near 50, I would stick with attuned for this particular IO. I had been under the opposite impression, given the way some other unique enhancements work, but was wrong!

Edited May 1, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[tidge]

Oh, I misunderstood the Reactive Defenses to be the Recticle! My Bad! I also believe that the LotG Global +Recharge doesn't scale, but some folks on general said it would. I keep mine attuned,.

[scottocamp]

Sandwich

 

Here is my build - which I have come to greatly enjoy.   I did not expect to love playing a Widow so much honestly.

 

I also found Gloom to be of limited value and instead switched to Mu Mastery which allows for two fairly good proc'ed AOE attacks.  I can also slot the self heal in both Mu AOE's which is a nice benefit.

 

I believe Tidge is probably correct about how to slot Aura of Confusion - but I love confuse powers and also really like the Coercive Persuasion set bonuses.  I've also found my Widow to be a tad fragile at times with so few hit points.  So anything extra I can do to mitigate incoming damage - like using Aura of Confusion for the confuse rather than as a proc attack and using Total Domination as much as possible - seems to keep the Widow relatively unscathed.  And I already have better AOE proc attacks than Aura of Confusion.  But all the confuses and holds may indeed be overkill.  And Tidge may be right that simply killing faster is better mitigation. 

 

I also ended up using Vigor as my incarnate alpha because of all the proc attacks.  The loss of damage seemed to be offset by fewer missed attacks.  But who knows.

 

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1432&c=724&a=1448&f=HEX&dc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

[Onlyasandwich]

40 minutes ago, scottocamp said:

Confusion for the confuse rather than as a proc attack

 

I'm with you on this one, Scottocamp.

 

I'm all for proccing things out, or piling procs onto attacks that aren't otherwise serving a specific set bonus purpose. Aura of Confusion, however, provides minimal value as a damage power, even procced out. It holds two procs, and even with my healthy recharge in this build, is still up only every 70 seconds. I don't place much value in two damage procs going off every minute or so versus bonuses that will serve the overall build.

 

I'll take Tidge up on their enthusiasm for Confuse and give it a whirl as I level up! Maybe I'll just do a swap with that and aura. It's primarily about the set bonus here, either power will fit just fine.

 

I agree on Gloom as well. It is a really excellent attack, but in my particular situation would only really serve to form a more complete ranged attack chain. I have focused on the melee attacks in this build. It's actually a pretty fun playstyle! Bamf around with combat teleport slicing things up, tossing out psychic aoes as I see fit. Dominate hits at the end of my chain, or serves as a really great "stop the runner" power. If Dominate doesn't finish them off, they are held in place for a quick teleport and slice to the face.

 

It does seem that the majority of Fortunatas choose to go with a fourth aoe, whether they are melee or ranged oriented. I'll just see how the flow feels just cycling my three aoes given the recharge in this build - I can always respec into some nice epic aoes if I truly feel the lack. 

 

Thank you both for your thoughtful replies!

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[scottocamp]

49 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

It does seem that the majority of Fortunatas choose to go with a fourth aoe, whether they are melee or ranged oriented. I'll just see how the flow feels just cycling my three aoes given the recharge in this build - I can always respec into some nice epic aoes if I truly feel the lack. 

 

 

I ended up with 5 AOE attacks (6 including the incarnate judgement) - Spin, Electrifying Fences, Ball Lightning, Psionic Tornado & Psychic Wail.  It feels amazing to always have an AOE or two ready to fire.  Psionic Tornado seems to get the least use and I could probably live without it but it is a hoot to flip bad guys up in the air backwards.  I also started out with Strike and Swipe but Lunge, Follow Up and Dominate are up so quickly it seemed unnecessary to have even more single target attacks.  Especially since those 3 attacks are so incredible.  And Telekinetic Blast with the knockdown proc as a fourth single target attack is just more fun to use than Strike or Swipe.  🙂

[tidge]

Slotting Aura of Confusion with %damage procs doesn't stop the characters who take %damage from being confused. This is not a zero-sum choice where something is sacrificed, it is adding to an already good one (the PBAoE confuse effect). As far as what else you could be slotting instead of the %damage procs in the PBAoE:

• You will almost certainly be at a "final to hit" of 95% anyway, so it isn't as if more accuracy is really going to make a difference... all the misses are coming from the RNG > 95%.
• Longer confuse times (either from direct enhancement) mean very little for an AoE Fortunata, the targets will either be defeated or ready to be controlled in some other way... it's just not worth trying to "perma" confuse a target with the PBAoE.
• The potential extra range of the PBAoE Confuse by relying on the %Contagious proc is minimal, and the duration (of a single confuse from the %contagious, or the increased magnitude for a double-hit target) is similarly short. For even-level minions, it is sometimes only long enough for them to get through a single cycle of attacks.

Hitting the (now confused) enemies with %damage, immediately "wakes them up" to start attacking each other. You don't have to 'wait' for the AI perception check.

 

If you want to benefit from the subtle and sly use of confused status, you want to also take the single target power (Confuse) and slot it with the Coercive Persuasion set.  I can understand if you have the opinion that the ST Confuse is a waste of a power, but it is a force multiplier for the PBAoE confuse.  I have a parallel sort of feeling about Dominate and Mass Domination. I played around with using both in my Fortunata builds, but I found:

• Enemies held by Mass Domination would be defeated before the status ended, or
• They wouldn't be, at which point I'd have to deal with all of their alphas

In either case, it was just me fighting with a a bunch of statues that weren't clustering... plus the recharge times on the power were too long to use in every fight. Stacking the ST hold from Dominate was too much effort when facing large spawns. So... I dropped Mass Domination and slotted Dominate (taken at level 12) with a Damage IO, 2 PVP %damage pieces, 2 very rare %damage pieces, and a level 10 %damage piece (so that the %proc damage is available at low level SFs, keep in mind that my build explicitly eschews the claw attacks). One of the builds above has Dominate taken at level 26 and loaded with %procs... IMO level 26 is too long to wait to take a power available at level 12 and try to turn it into a %proc attack... the ST attacks should be the ones to carry the set bonuses, YMMV.

 

If you aren't going to take the ST Confuse and you want the 5-piece Coercive Persuasion bonuses, I won't try to convince you to avoid trying to get those set bonuses... I just think that this is probably a case where trying to overload other attacks with %procs has backed a build into a corner where the build is making (IMO, YMMV) a bad choice but trying to get a set bonus from a power that doesn't otherwise do damage because the powers that could get set bonuses and be slotted for damage are being filled with %damage procs.

 

 

[Onlyasandwich]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

If you aren't going to take the ST Confuse and you want the 5-piece Coercive Persuasion bonuses, I won't try to convince you to avoid trying to get those set bonuses... I just think that this is probably a case where trying to overload other attacks with %procs has backed a build into a corner where the build is making (IMO, YMMV) a bad choice but trying to get a set bonus from a power that doesn't otherwise do damage because the powers that could get set bonuses and be slotted for damage are being filled with %damage procs

 

Have you taken a look at the damage numbers involved here?

 

Adding two damage procs to aura of confusion turns it into a 129 damage power every ~70 seconds. That is low damage value over time for the slots invested and sacrifice taken.

I do understand how the confuse mechanic works. I am simply stating that sacrificing the purple set bonuses is not sensible for me just to pick up what is almost half a spin's worth of damage for every 18 spins I can throw out. If I did not care about the +recharge set bonus, and had already achieved perma-hasten and comfortable pad time on Perma-Link, this would be a different story. I'm all for throwing in extra procs if goals are achieved.

 

As a comparison, let's take a look at lunge, the power that would actually sacrifice the least from swapping back to more traditional slotting, as it has the highest base damage.

• In my current proccy version, lunge does 665 damage.
• If I were to change this to a 5 slot Hecatomb instead with a sixth slot taken for proc it does 523 damage.

Even if I did this, there is only one purple melee set to slot! I could put the ranged purple set in dominate, but the difference is even proportionally bigger here.

• Dominate does 392 damage as is.
• With 5 slot purple +hold proc it does 279 damage.

 

The difference is even more stark with my other attacks. As originally stated, one of the primary goals of this build is to stuff as much damage into the most optimal attack chain powers as possible. This means I want my best DPA attacks (namely my ST melee attacks and dominate) to do as much damage as absolutely possible.

 

I don't envision Aura of confusion as some sort of amazing all the time useful power. I intend on using both it and Total domination as either back to back lockdown in dire situations or breathing periods if and when my defenses become debuffed.

 

Ultimately, my question is whether it is worth keeping that, along with the extra +recharge that slotting these powers provides, or going for an epic AOE to round out my regular AOE chain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tidge]

3 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

 

Have you taken a look at the damage numbers involved here?

 

Adding two damage procs to aura of confusion turns it into a 129 damage power every ~70 seconds. That is low damage value over time for the slots invested and sacrifice taken.

I do understand how the confuse mechanic works. I am simply stating that sacrificing the purple set bonuses is not sensible for me just to pick up what is almost half a spin's worth of damage for every 18 spins I can throw out.

 

 

For what it is worth, I only have two slots in my Fortunata's Aura of Confusion, so I don't feel like I'm 'wasting' slots in it. As I ALWAYS start with when I have this argument.. it is IMO getting ANY damage in on enemies to get onto the %drop table that is the primary benefit of using the %damage procs in the PBAoE. Enemies that totally defeat each other without you scoring damage on them means you aren't on the drop tables. You may not notice this, but if I have run a lot of x8 content at level 50, this is the difference between getting 1 Very Rare drop per hour and going longer.

 

As far as Global +Recharge, I don't think I have very much, and I don't really miss it.

 

My build is getting the +10% Global Recharge bonuses from:

5xSuperior Dominion of Arachnos

5xArmaggedon

5xCoercive Persuasion (in the single-target Confuse)

 

I used to have Ragnarok in the build, but I found that I didn't need it (and could add %damage to a cone instead) because the build also had:

5x LotG pieces (CT:Defenses, TT:Maneuvers, Foresight, Mind Link, Combat Jumping)

+8.75% Global Recharge (Preventive Medicine, Reactive Defenses)

+6% Global Recharge (Positron's Blast, Glimpse of The Abyss)

 

I should note that my Favored Fortunata Build doesn't include Hasten. I have room for it, but I checked the math and even experimented with it and I was barely getting an improvement in Mind Link uptime, and the 'key' longer recharge AoE powers were only getting a tiny improvement in recharge times. I ended up replacing it with Weaken Resolve, which I have kept even though it was nerfed a bit. I also had alternate slotting in Dominate for +Recharge bonus, but I found I simply didn't need it. In my build, the only two powers that I found were really benefiting from more recharge was Unrelenting (because of the LONG base recharge time) and Aim (because of my lack of slots for it)

 

If you REALLY want to have MOAR damage on a %proc build, I have another recommendation that will go against your slotting philosophy: Unless you are always playing on large teams, I would move the full Gaussian's Synchronized Fire Control set out of Tactical Training: Leadership and into Aim. You will get lots of procs from the %Build Up if you are working with teammates (and/or pets), but in smaller groups you can get an on-demand use of the %Build Up (90% anyway) by putting it in Aim. On my Fortunata, I didn't have the slots so my Aim is slotted with the %Build Up proc and a Recharge IO 50+5.

[tidge]

One more thing I want to say about why I eschew multiple (i.e. more than 2) %damage procs in single-target powers:

 

53 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

 

[snip]

As a comparison, let's take a look at lunge, the power that would actually sacrifice the least from swapping back to more traditional slotting, as it has the highest base damage.

• In my current proccy version, lunge does 665 damage.
• If I were to change this to a 5 slot Hecatomb instead with a sixth slot taken for proc it does 523 damage.

 

If a single-target attack is not reliably defeating minions and LTs at 100% Health, there is no effective difference in my mind between maximum damage values from MIDs if I have to swing twice to defeat them no matter the slotting (1). Slotting an enhancement set that scales with the power is almost always the more effective choice, for a wider variety of game content. There are times when I don't follow this:

• low DPS ATs get more DPS by adding %damage procs to powers (at least for now)
• There are some powers (Holds are the typical example) that can take a LOT of %damage procs, but also do good 'raw' damage worth enhancing.  The Fortunata Dominate falls into this class, as it has some good choices (as you point out) for alternate slotting that scales across almost all content. I consider the specific slotting in Dominate to be a sort of 'dealer's choice' depending on what else a player wants to do with the build . and what attacks will be available across level ranges.

(1) It is possible to debate the effects of random %damage on 'harder' targets (AVs, GMs), but I suspect it is more valuable to try overcome the purple triangles with stacking -Res debuffs or tricks like -Regen, -Max HP than prayers to RNGesus of %damage.

[Onlyasandwich]

3 hours ago, tidge said:

Slotting an enhancement set that scales with the power

 

I can appreciate your overall slotting philosophy as it applies to builds in a broader sense. I don't typically take proccing in my attack chain to such extremes outside of lower damage AT's.

 

However, I see a somewhat unique opportunity in Fortunata/Widow here. The built-in tools of the class provide extreme defense baseline with very little effort, affording me flexibility to approach my attacks with a more free-form slotting philosophy.

 

Note that I am not neglecting the baseline enhancement of these powers either. With my hybrid slotting, they are still near ED caps for damage, and even have healthy acc/end slotting as well. You can do some really interesting things with slot efficiency using the Purple damage and Dam/End IOs, HO's, and a select few Winter IOs.  Recharge enhancement is made up for with global totals (including hasten).

 

I'm not really concerned about ST affect on minions. Minions get blown away by aoes very quickly in any case. The unique and purposeful goal I am pursuing here is 100% as much damage in the most efficient ST chain possible. I am not saying this is required for a good Fortunata, but it is a goal I am focused on here.

 

I actually agree with you on Aim for the Gaussian proc. However, I am running it in my leadership toggle for a few reasons:

• What you stated - it is actually really strong on teams with constant proccing.
• I'm just a little bored of always slotting it in aim and want to mix it up.
• Gaussian requires no animation time investment when slotted in leadership. I will gain passive benefit with no attention paid.

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[scottocamp]

1 hour ago, Onlyasandwich said:

 

However, I see a somewhat unique opportunity in Fortunata/Widow here. The built-in tools of the class provide extreme defense baseline with very little effort, affording me flexibility to approach my attacks with a more free-form slotting philosophy.

 

 

This seems to me the greatest benefit of a widow.  For an especially small investment of slots you gain an amazing level of defense - which then allows huge freedom slotting attacks.

 

Regarding how confuses are handled, my experience is that confused mobs are not especially efficient at killing themselves.  There is a lot of just random running around happening.  So getting some damage in on these mobs seems trivially easy - with or without procs in the confuse power itself.  The downside to a widow, in my opinion, is the very small number of hit points.  A widow is enormously tough - but if the random roll gods frown upon you, then a widow can go down very fast.  In those situations I jump right to inspirations rather than hitting a confuse.  So using the ST and AOE confuses in advance of engagement just seems easier and more intuitive for my play style.  Which makes having a longer duration confuse more helpful to me.  The mob *usually* dies so quickly the confuses have little impact.  But not always.  When Psychic Wail fails to vaporize everyone I would rather the mob attack themselves rather than my widow.   But that is just how I prefer to play (overly cautiously) and one reason why I slot confuse powers in the manner I do.