Not sure how to build a brute - Ice/SD/soul vs Rad/SD/soul, which would have better DPS, better sustain?

[EnjoyTheJourney]

The following builds don't seem all that strong. With further improvements in mind, which of them would have better potential for ...

 

1. ST DPS

2. AOE DPS

3. Sustain and survival in endgame content, such as Cims, Tin/Pex, etc

 

Suggested tweaks and other, potentially broader suggestions are welcome. 

 

Ice / SD / Soul build right below, Rad / SD / Soul build further down ...

 

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Ice Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Ice Sword -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(37), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(39)
Level 1: Deflection -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(31), ShlWal-Def(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(34), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(34), GldArm-ResDam(43)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(3), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Rct-Def/Rchg(25), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Rct-ResDam%(42)
Level 4: True Grit -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam(5), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(5), Pnc-Heal/+End(15), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(15), Pnc-Heal(25)
Level 6: Frost -- SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprUnrFur-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprUnrFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprUnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End(45)
Level 8: Boxing -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(9), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mk'Bit-Dam%(46)
Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 12: Build Up -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(A)
Level 14: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-End/Res(17), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(17)
Level 18: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(19), RedFrt-Def(19)
Level 20: Cross Punch -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(23), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 22: Phalanx Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Freezing Touch -- SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBrtFur-Dmg/Rchg(27), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprBrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprBrtFur-Rech/Fury%(31)
Level 28: Ice Patch -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Frozen Aura -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Arm-Dam%(34), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(45)
Level 35: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(36), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Apc-Dam%(37), GldJvl-Dam%(46)
Level 38: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- RedFrt-Def(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(42)
Level 44: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), WntGif-ResSlow(45)
Level 47: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(48), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 49: Darkest Night -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(50)
Level 1: Fury 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- UnbLea-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Prv-Absorb%(40), Mrc-Rcvry+(40)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(40), PwrTrns-+Heal(43)
------------

 

... and Rad / SD / Soul build next ...

 

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Radiation Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Radioactive Smash -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(37), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Mk'Bit-Dam%(21)
Level 1: Deflection -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(31), ShlWal-Def(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(34), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(34), GldArm-ResDam(11)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(3), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Rct-Def/Rchg(9), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Rct-ResDam%(11)
Level 4: True Grit -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam(5), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(5), Pnc-Heal/+End(15), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(15), Pnc-Heal(25)
Level 6: Proton Sweep -- SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprUnrFur-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprUnrFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprUnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End(21)
Level 8: Radiation Siphon -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(17), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Hct-Dam%(19), ThfofEss-+End%(23)
Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 12: Fusion -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(A)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), WntGif-ResSlow(45)
Level 16: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-End/Res(25), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(42)
Level 20: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(42), RedFrt-Def(43)
Level 22: Phalanx Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Devastating Blow -- SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBrtFur-Dmg/Rchg(27), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprBrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprBrtFur-Rech/Fury%(31)
Level 28: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 30: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Atom Smasher -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Arm-Dam%(34), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(39)
Level 35: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(36), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Apc-Dam%(37), GldJvl-Dam%(46)
Level 38: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- RedFrt-Def(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(42)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(46)
Level 47: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(48), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 49: Darkest Night -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(50)
Level 1: Fury 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- UnbLea-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Prv-Absorb%(40), Mrc-Rcvry+(40)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(40), PwrTrns-+Heal(43)
------------

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by EnjoyTheJourney

[Battle]

I don't recommend SD on a brute.

1. You can hit the Scrapper Resist Cap for S/L with SD as a Secondary, or the Tanker Resist Cap with it as a primary. but you can't hit the Brute Resist Cap (at least not easily, anything's POSSIBLE) with it as a secondary.

2. Against All Odds works better if you have higher base damage (Tank/Scrapper/Stalker).

3. Shield Charge is a pseudopet (at least it was the last time I did some testing) and doesn't get fury benefits.  (Again better on Tanker/Scrapper/Stalker)

 

I see you don't have Shield Charge in your builds. To me it's the defining feature of the set.  If you want a hybrid set and don't want shield charge, Invuln is your boy.

 

I prefer Rad Melee to Ice Melee.

I have Rad Melee Brutes, Tankers and Scrappers - Love them. (Hate it on stalkers - Losing Irradiated Ground and the auto-contaminate in Fusion slows down the AOE / Contaminates)  If you pick up a secondary that has any kind of self heal, you can drop Radiation Siphon from your build.  It's the worst (single target) DPA (IIRC, at work and can't check numbers here) and removes the Contaminated status, so using it lowers your AOE.  Honestly, I have a SD/Rad Tank who doesn't need the heal - he doesn't get hurt. I think not taking Irradiated Ground in your build above is a mistake. Not only does it do good damage, you can proc it out for MORE damage, and it helps apply Contaminated to get you even more AOE.

I never had good "feels" with any way I tried to play Ice Melee. I think it has good potential, and you apparently already know about adding cross punch in, but it always just felt kind of "meh" to me.  Part of it is that I want to Ice Patch to be worth the cast time, and as of today, it's just not.

 

TLDR:

SD - use it on anything BUT a brute.

Rad Melee > Ice Melee

[Erratic1]

51 minutes ago, Battle said:

1. You can hit the Scrapper Resist Cap for S/L with SD as a Secondary, or the Tanker Resist Cap with it as a primary. but you can't hit the Brute Resist Cap (at least not easily, anything's POSSIBLE) with it as a secondary.

 

Just going to note that if you are goin Shield Defense your entire means of damage mitigation is not getting hit in the first place. At maximum Defense you're looking at 5% of incoming damage making it in versus 10% at maximum Resistance. The Resistance focused character needs 25% Defense just to get to the same amount of incoming damage as the Defense focused one.  Of course plenty of Resistance focused builds do that and go on to cap Defense but...

 

(1) While they may max out their defensive value they will not typically have much in the way of  Defense Debuff Resistance, so in harder content their Defense really is not there. 

(2) While the Defense (Shield) oriented Brute would most likely not cap their Resistance they do have DDR  and can still achieve reasonable S/L resistance values. 

 

[EnjoyTheJourney]

Thank you both for your feedback. 

 

Rad melee seems to have stronger sustain than ice melee, which makes sense given that it has a heal.

 

It makes sense that shield charge would be viewed by many as the signature power for shield defense. The nomenclature matches, it's a cool looking power, and it's unusual in what it allows players to do when compared with other armor sets. But, there's a reasonable case to be made for grant cover being the power that makes SD a strong pick when team play is key to a player's enjoyment of the game. Grant cover isn't as flashy power, but it is very helpful for teams. Also, AOEs that are available to use more often will probably do more damage than shield charge, in the end, even if their DPA isn't as good as shield charge and their "cool factor" isn't as high. 

 

Here's a tweaked rad / SD / soul build, with a bit more smash / lethal resistance squeezed into it (60.66% according to Mids). I've been pondering what to give up to make room for irradiated ground, but I've come up blank in that regard. Thus, unless there are problems I'm not seeing (ie: with how the brute IO sets are placed, other issues), then I'll probably run with the build below and see how it fares in-game.

 

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Radiation Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Radioactive Smash -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(37), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Mk'Bit-Dam%(21)
Level 1: Deflection -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(31), ShlWal-Def(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(34), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(34), GldArm-ResDam(11)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(3), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Rct-Def/Rchg(9), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Rct-ResDam%(11)
Level 4: True Grit -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam(5), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(5), Prv-Absorb%(15), Prv-Heal(15), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(25)
Level 6: Proton Sweep -- SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprUnrFur-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprUnrFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprUnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End(21)
Level 8: Radiation Siphon -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(17), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Hct-Dam%(19), ThfofEss-+End%(23)
Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 12: Fusion -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(A)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), WntGif-ResSlow(45)
Level 16: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-End/Res(25), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(42)
Level 20: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(42), RedFrt-Def(43)
Level 22: Phalanx Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Devastating Blow -- SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBrtFur-Dmg/Rchg(27), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprBrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprBrtFur-Rech/Fury%(31)
Level 28: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 30: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Atom Smasher -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Arm-Dam%(34), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(39)
Level 35: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(36), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Apc-Dam%(37), GldJvl-Dam%(46)
Level 38: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- RedFrt-Def(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(42)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(46)
Level 47: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(48), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 49: Darkest Night -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(50)
Level 1: Fury 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- UnbLea-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(40), Mrc-Rcvry+(40)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(40), PwrTrns-+Heal(43)
------------

[Erratic1]

I found Devastating  Blow's activation time annoyingly long on my Elec/Rad Tanker and swapped it out for Cross Punch.