Change my mind: dark/dark not worth it

[mikimiki]

I've leveled 2 dark/dark defenders to 50 and i think I don't play them right because everyone says they are amazing.

 

What I have found is that they are endurance hogs and squishy and don't feel like they are doing much.

 

Defenders I love and have lvled to 50:

 

emp/arch

emp/sonic

rad/rad

rad/ice

FF/kin

 

[Doomguide2005]

    Well they are quite potent and if bed weren't calling I'd say more ... and I'll be back, but looking over your list I note one potentially significant difference between Dark/Dark and the ones you listed above that might result in the appearance of "endurance hogs".  A Dark/Dark has no way too boost endurance recovery or otherwise add endurance via powers. The Empaths have RA, the Rads have AM, and the Kin Transference.  Dark Miasma has many tools but +recovery or +endurance is not among them via its powers.

[Without_Pause]

What is a FF/kin?

 

As mentioned, Dark has no way to help with end so it can be more of a burden to take on. What kid of slotting are you using? Do you have any Incarnates yet? What kind of content are you going against which makes them feel squishy? There's not much reason for a Dark Defender to not be on the rather sturdy side. 

[Gwyrddu]

Are you using theft of essence? It made a big difference when I used in on an endurance hog and it looks like there are two spots you can put one in.

[Without_Pause]

2 hours ago, Gwyrddu said:

Are you using theft of essence? It made a big difference when I used in on an endurance hog and it looks like there are two spots you can put one in.

I think the only heals it could work on would be single target so the end gain would be small and I assume one would be from the pet so I'm not even sure the player would get any kick back.

 

EDIT: Single target in that where you are pulling the heal from.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Without_Pause

[Doomguide2005]

     A Dark/Dark has two overall strengths.  The first is a extreme amount of To Hit Debuffs as nearly every power in both sets provides To Hit Debuffs.  Secondly is that tool kit I mentioned.  Those tools cover just about everything except endurance use (ally or foe).  They have stealth, damage debuffs, resistance debuffs, regen debuffs, AoE Fear and AoE team-wide fear protection, Team Psi resistance, a Hold, Foe intangibilty, movement suppression (-speed, -fly), Aoe Stun, AoE resurrection, AoE immobilize, AoE knockback and a pet who uses many of the same attacks.  All of which adds up to a pairing which is often said to be very Controller like.

     Now add in IO sets and you've got the foundation of a very tough solo defender or teammate which can use large numbers of procs to increase damage output if desired.

     So yes maybe endurance challenged (but not with the rep of, for example, Storm).  But squishy no generally anything but squishy.

[Plutoria]

Generally squishy doesn't fit the d3 narrative due to the mix of CC tools, debuffs and healing output. End heavy, yeah.. compared to power sets with native end recovery or end drain resist tools, dark won't compare but that also isn't really the role dark miasma plays anyhow( outside of the troller variant). It does become far easier to manage once you start dipping into IOs and Incarnate though. Picking up ageless ( ideally with the debuff resist) and a End redux styled alpha will go a long way. P2W temp powers can also really help offset this too which.. with the ease of gaining infamy via this build really no reason not to use them as required.  I posted a build below to help guide in building if you would like to see how I built my own. This is a Corr version but the Def I spent equal time testing is built nearly the same save for ATOs. I posted the corr to show just how "minimal" you can get with def and res and debuff output while still being sturdy. The idea of this leans more to the strength of dark/dark.. which is the heavy tohit debuff...which allows you to build by cutting corners in the defense area and taking advantage of the -dmg debuffs from yourself and fluffy. This was tested and tweaked playing on countless AE farm runs (S/L), ambush missions vs foes like carnies, arachnos, malta and DA stuff solo at 4/8 (54) so its very sturdy. Darkest night was generally only used for pesky pew pew bosses that like to sit out on the edges of your carnage. Otherwise foes in "melee" range generally it was never required. The kill rate between def and corr wasn't too different but scourge via moonbeam "felt" very noticeable in kill time vs bosses (& Ebs on farms). In actual finishing of said tasks a def would often only be a few minutes behind. So big picture play any flavor they both work. Fearsome>torrent for stacking -tohit while using KD IO  > tar patch > soul drain (with KD proc) > blackstar generally killed most foes.. and you are only left with injured bosses which you easily clean up with moonbeam and gloom/lifedrain. Cycle HT and TT for aoe procs for when blackstar is on cooldown ( assuming you are pulling constant foes or over aggro cap with use of pet) cycle RoP and demonic aura as needed.

 

 

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1556;722;1444;HEX;|
|78DA65544B4F135118BD773A052985524A5BA0BC5A5A4AA1AFF1B13424801279182|
|2D19D92B10CD8886D3385445706137F8031511357C68D0B6364A571EB3B6E5D9B18|
|4D740398F85898E8F831E7B36D329334E7CEF9CE3DDFF966EE74E1F2B4F7D1CCD68|
|490BEA975BD5A5D9E2A9BE66665A36C362F158A46A96088FDAB997E915A69F9945E|
|5A3356B2D3BA79717992B66DF4D66B939BABABA82C14F5EA255D7817CBE5F5ECBCA|
|1578AA535DC2C95CD82615EF1FDAFAC1866F542B1E241B162182BFE639562816DC8|
|9FC4DD1421473FAF22F8B25CE2A14B084D15C38F81F13430FD9544FDAA782E49265|
|9DB8D9A12640C017B3B5DB6F68564A9B084DC9676AD8D6C5CE0DC2E4DB13935CF98|
|063671CFA6F7C2462FF77E49166EF416EE67D0FA143CCA7DBFE6A7D01F78C278173|
|D3D8A1BC83ED118FC5F51B985F7B6CCC1CF7B12D82EB1A7FDAF6A6394BD35F60A51|
|D3566491AD41F4E9FD236CFF9B0921DA78EEB6087ABD26890F7AB78FF51D7BA875E|
|C02FB7E32FE000E7C07FA29929F73FA3F82EBFCC0C879BA78B62ECE19BA8E39DE50|
|AB00BFDBC0676842ACEDFEC4F805E8A79982FC6E839C71608EB31C070ECD0203A40|
|DF3FCE107E895B3E8A24442F470DA9E149EDE10771CE213331C073F3C02CCF18979|
|4B8E11EC5522BFE11A3F27ED5A5A07C6A8733F77EE1FC7B451C6006D19E4DE83497|
|8C713C0915146CE32B28D2CC9A3E873956E637CBA625B98FE1D4182FD12A7A14BF2|
|FE249FF614E74CF16C293E755B743BCA6F7CF4206A6339468D310FCC1CC11E2D454|
|8B9AF113D2E3CF67318BF0FFFF404B4B97B98E30605CBF229CBEEA0768BB83C73F9|
|309ED70955F0276B597D6AED4BDFBFA5B735EF6016D586AFD666762888948DCCAE8|
|3D9AB338A3C832932B3402D8A74DFEA1A297F618ACC6D4C3737564B6E8D3932E51D|
|8CE6600E3998C30EA6A5A3F6EF6305C3D41869AC9986F5768CD6AC4977D5F93B813|
|A7FDE53E7F586F5D986F562C3FA1F9F8301FE|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|