[SUGGESTION] Cast Toggle on Target abilities to be used on Allies

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Even if you used it on an unwitting player, if they were within that radius of enemies, that's kind of on them.  I'm not saying it's ok to grief players, but if you afk within a group of enemies that could potentially defeat you, then that's just being negligent.

 

Patrols and ambushes are part of the game.  If you go AFK and are jumped because someone dropped a debuff toggle on you, after you put your character in what you expected to be a safe location, you're going to accept the responsibility for it?

 

Stealth buffs and perception debuffs are also part of the game.  If I go AFK with Stealth active, whilst standing in the middle of a spawn, you're going to say it's my fault when someone else decides to use me as an anchor for a debuff toggle?

 

Victim-blaming isn't cool.

[biostem]

11 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Patrols and ambushes are part of the game.  If you go AFK and are jumped because someone dropped a debuff toggle on you, after you put your character in what you expected to be a safe location, you're going to accept the responsibility for it?

 

Stealth buffs and perception debuffs are also part of the game.  If I go AFK with Stealth active, whilst standing in the middle of a spawn, you're going to say it's my fault when someone else decides to use me as an anchor for a debuff toggle?

There are places that are 100% safe, where no enemy can reach you.  If you want to be sure, park in one of those places.

 

11 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Victim-blaming isn't cool.

Let's not conflate actual real-life victims with being defeated in a video game.  Regardless, I already stated that I do not condone griefing.

[Kalthea]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Incorrect. All debuff toggles are flagged as notify enemy effects. So the moment a debuff toggle was placed on a friendly, whether that friendly was part of the team or not, and there are any enemies within the range of the debuff toggle from the anchor, they are notified and begin attacking. Which means they would start attacking the player character that had the unwanted toggle placed on them for the sake of griefing. Like say a Stalker trying to sneak suddenly having another player placing a debuff toggle on them and now all enemies are active and attacking the Stalker. When you apply the toggle to an enemy, your character is the source of the effect. When you apply an effect to another character, that other character is the source of the effect. And the source of the effect notifies enemies when those toggles are activated.

Limit the application to partied entities at that point, that would resolve most of the issues with trolling using that system. And if that doesn't, then you'd just need to remove the person responsible from the team. Dunno if that's possible in the game's programming, but it's a way of changing it.

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

I think you are misreading my post.

You're talking about how you have to manage the ability constantly, which is why I'm suggesting this change in the first place. I don't really see how I'm misreading that?

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

The term affliction is from the power's own description. Nothing loaded about it. The power afflicts a target with its debuff effect.

 

Which we already do by afflicting the target with the power.

 

I used that example because htat is how the ice armors from Corrupters and Defenders work. You apply them to others, never yourself.

These make it seem like you're limiting yourself to changing things based entirely upon how an ability's description currently reads, and not how it can possibly be changed to become something else. You can change the wording from "afflicts" to "afflicts enemies in its area".  And the in-game description doesn't even use the word "affliction" for Snow Storm (in Storm Summoning, anyway).

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

The point of the Hurricane comment is that it is a debuff storm effect that is centered on the character. Not what its specific effects are.

Then the purpose for bringing up Hurricane was entirely "you already have an ability that is centered on yourself"? I don't really see how that helps in the conversion, but please correct me if I'm wrong on that would, as I could be misunderstanding that.

 

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Edit yet again: There is also the consideration of whether the OP would change Snow Storm, Darkest Night, et al. to targeting allies to affect enemies, or to targeting either/or. If it is changed to targeting allies, then I can't solo with most of my characters any more because I very much rely on those toggles to carry me through things like boss fights. If it is an either/or bit, then at least I can still solo.

Ahhh, perhaps this is where you're misunderstanding my idea. I'm not suggesting to change the entirety of the targeting system to be ONLY usable on an ally. I still think it should be usable on enemies on well, but also have the option of anchoring it on an ally, thus making the ability usable in solo still.

[Rudra]

You are definitely misreading my posts. Okay, let's try this....

 

2 minutes ago, Kalthea said:

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Incorrect. All debuff toggles are flagged as notify enemy effects. So the moment a debuff toggle was placed on a friendly, whether that friendly was part of the team or not, and there are any enemies within the range of the debuff toggle from the anchor, they are notified and begin attacking. Which means they would start attacking the player character that had the unwanted toggle placed on them for the sake of griefing. Like say a Stalker trying to sneak suddenly having another player placing a debuff toggle on them and now all enemies are active and attacking the Stalker. When you apply the toggle to an enemy, your character is the source of the effect. When you apply an effect to another character, that other character is the source of the effect. And the source of the effect notifies enemies when those toggles are activated.

Limit the application to partied entities at that point, that would resolve most of the issues with trolling using that system. And if that doesn't, then you'd just need to remove the person responsible from the team. Dunno if that's possible in the game's programming, but it's a way of changing it.

The only power that I know of that can affect friendlies and only affect those on the team is Incandescence. If that is applied to the OP such that it can only be applied to a teammate, then sure. I would still request that doing so work like Teleport Other. You activate the power on a teammate (and only a teammate), and that teammate must choose to accept it. No just throwing it on someone and to hell if they are willing or not.

 

6 minutes ago, Kalthea said:

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

I think you are misreading my post.

You're talking about how you have to manage the ability constantly, which is why I'm suggesting this change in the first place. I don't really see how I'm misreading that?

My comment that time about my thinking you are misreading my posts was your implication that I liked my enemies running off with my debuff toggles, rather than my expression that there is a need to watch for that.

" By applying the ability to an ally as an "Anchor" for it, then I wouldn't need to worry about an enemy running off and pulling more aggro than is necessary. Perhaps you enjoy that situation, which is fine."

 

8 minutes ago, Kalthea said:

These make it seem like you're limiting yourself to changing things based entirely upon how an ability's description currently reads, and not how it can possibly be changed to become something else. You can change the wording from "afflicts" to "afflicts enemies in its area".  And the in-game description doesn't even use the word "affliction" for Snow Storm (in Storm Summoning, anyway).

I am limiting myself not based upon the text of the powers in question, but because in my mind I would only apply such a power to my enemies to affect them. Hence the lines:

"I understand why my character would afflict another with a snow storm. I am trying to hamper that target. It makes much less sense to me to afflict an ally with a snow storm. What did that ally do to upset me? And why isn't my power affecting him/her/them/it? Now, as far as theme goes, I can still figure out how that works. As in I will figure one out eventually. " So, I can and will think of something I consider plausible, rather than just player requested mechanics, for why a power like that would be applied to an ally instead of just being thrown on my enemies. Given how those powers work, nothing comes to mind for why that would be, but like with the ice armors from Cold Domination, I can eventually puzzle something out.

 

12 minutes ago, Kalthea said:

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

The point of the Hurricane comment is that it is a debuff storm effect that is centered on the character. Not what its specific effects are.

Then the purpose for bringing up Hurricane was entirely "you already have an ability that is centered on yourself"? I don't really see how that helps in the conversion, but please correct me if I'm wrong on that would, as I could be misunderstanding that.

I'm trying to be as clear as I can, but apparently I am as clear as mud-baked obsidian. I brought up Hurricane not to say "we already have a power that can be used on ourselves", and not to contrast Hurricane's effects with Snow Storm's, but to say that if Snow Storm were to be changed to not target an enemy, then it makes most sense to me for it to be a PBAoE like Hurricane is.

 

14 minutes ago, Kalthea said:

Ahhh, perhaps this is where you're misunderstanding my idea. I'm not suggesting to change the entirety of the targeting system to be ONLY usable on an ally. I still think it should be usable on enemies on well, but also have the option of anchoring it on an ally, thus making the ability usable in solo still.

This was much needed clarification. Thank you.