Requesting Clarity Re: Specific Enhancement

[Herotu]

[EDIT: UPDATE: I've discovered that I can't use this enhancement on this character because Hurdle doesn't take sets. I request a reply anyway, just to clarify the issue. Thanks for your time.]

 

I am looking at the Launch enhancement set. There seem to be two that increase Jump Speed - one overtly states that it increases both jump SPEED and HEIGHT. That's it's name. Another one in the set is called "Jump Speed" only. 

 

BUT

 

The Jump Speed only one says it also increases height. Is it a typo? Are height and speed bound together in physics? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Herotu

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Herotu said:

Are height and speed bound together in physics?

 

Yes and no.  They're two separate mechanics, usually used simultaneously, but not always.  Sprint, for example, increases Jump Height by 10%, but it has no Jump Speed at all.

 

The connection is the gravity mechanic.  At the apex of a leap, the engine switches to gravity (you're not jumping any more, you're falling).  Fall speed is independent of Jump Speed (a character with Super Jump/Might Leap toggled on and a character with no +Jump powers (other than Hurdle) fall at exactly the same speed).  Movement Friction and Movement Control determine the speed and responsiveness of lateral movement during a fall, but Jump Speed is no longer applied to movement.

 

+Jump Speed isn't arbitrarily set to 0 the instant you reach the apex of a jump, though.  There's also a momentum mechanic at play, which "bleeds off" forward movement, in concert with the movement control and friction control mechanics, so your character doesn't instantly start plummeting down.  That's what makes jumps graceful curves, rather than precipitous parabolas.

 

Did that answer your question sufficiently?

[Herotu]

48 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Yes and no.  They're two separate mechanics, usually used simultaneously, but not always.  Sprint, for example, increases Jump Height by 10%, but it has no Jump Speed at all.

 

The connection is the gravity mechanic.  At the apex of a leap, the engine switches to gravity (you're not jumping any more, you're falling).  Fall speed is independent of Jump Speed (a character with Super Jump/Might Leap toggled on and a character with no +Jump powers (other than Hurdle) fall at exactly the same speed).  Movement Friction and Movement Control determine the speed and responsiveness of lateral movement during a fall, but Jump Speed is no longer applied to movement.

 

+Jump Speed isn't arbitrarily set to 0 the instant you reach the apex of a jump, though.  There's also a momentum mechanic at play, which "bleeds off" forward movement, in concert with the movement control and friction control mechanics, so your character doesn't instantly start plummeting down.  That's what makes jumps graceful curves, rather than precipitous parabolas.

 

Did that answer your question sufficiently?

Precipitous Parabola, I love it! 

 

Thank you for your informative response! 😄

 

It doesn't fully answer my question but it does open my the top of my head up, which is probably not good for anybody.

 

If I'm interpreting your post correctly, it seems that the answer is;

The second half of the jump (falling) will be determined by the first half, and is not affected by jump speed directly.

The jump speed will affect the take-off-and-rising part of the jump(?)

 

I'm still not sure speed itself will affect height without a specific height component, though.

 

P.S. Your description of the momentum mechanic makes me think it'd be possible to create a cool skid mechanic, a bit like when you're the sliding on the (imo far too few) maps that have ice in-game. 

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, Herotu said:

The second half of the jump (falling) will be determined by the first half, and is not affected by jump speed directly.

The jump speed will affect the take-off-and-rising part of the jump(?)

 

Correct.  Once the character has hit his/her maximum Jump Height, the game stops applying Jump Speed.  The Jump Speed that you had at that maximum height carries your character forward faster than a direct fall, but diminishes with every increment of distance moved.  After falling X distance, all of the Jump Speed is bled off and your forward movement is limited to only what Movement Control, Friction Control and a base movement stat allows (there's a minimum Run Speed, it stands to reason that there'd also be a minimum Jump Speed).

 

The second half of a jump is like exiting an airplane in flight.  You're still moving forward when you step out, but not at the rate the airplane was traveling at, and you lose acceleration the farther you fall, until your only forward movement is whatever you achieve from gliding.  Movement Control and Movement Friction equate to the glide.

 

2 hours ago, Herotu said:

I'm still not sure speed itself will affect height without a specific height component, though.

 

It doesn't.  Speed and Height are independent mechanics.  It's entirely possible for a power with only Jump Speed to be created, and there are already powers with only Jump Height (Steam Jump, Jump Pack, all Sprints).  How quickly your character moves when jumping has no impact on how high your character jumps...

 

BUT, how high your character jumps does have an impact on your overall movement speed, because it increases the ceiling before Jump Speed is cut off.

[Herotu]

3 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

Correct.  Once the character has hit his/her maximum Jump Height, the game stops applying Jump Speed.  The Jump Speed that you had at that maximum height carries your character forward faster than a direct fall, but diminishes with every increment of distance moved.  After falling X distance, all of the Jump Speed is bled off and your forward movement is limited to only what Movement Control, Friction Control and a base movement stat allows (there's a minimum Run Speed, it stands to reason that there'd also be a minimum Jump Speed).

 

The second half of a jump is like exiting an airplane in flight.  You're still moving forward when you step out, but not at the rate the airplane was traveling at, and you lose acceleration the farther you fall, until your only forward movement is whatever you achieve from gliding.  Movement Control and Movement Friction equate to the glide.

 

 

It doesn't.  Speed and Height are independent mechanics.  It's entirely possible for a power with only Jump Speed to be created, and there are already powers with only Jump Height (Steam Jump, Jump Pack, all Sprints).  How quickly your character moves when jumping has no impact on how high your character jumps...

 

BUT, how high your character jumps does have an impact on your overall movement speed, because it increases the ceiling before Jump Speed is cut off.

Thanks for clarification. It would seem logical that the Enhancement probably has a typo on it and should have the words, "jump height and" removed.

[Luminara]

29 minutes ago, Herotu said:

Thanks for clarification. It would seem logical that the Enhancement probably has a typo on it and should have the words, "jump height and" removed.

 

It's not a typo.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=boosts.attuned_launch_a.attuned_launch_a

 

All +Jump enhancements boost both attribs, but they don't all say that.  The originals, TOs, DOs and SOs, all use the same basic nomenclature, referring to "distance" and height rather than speed and height.  When IOs were added, the terminology was changed to "jumping ability".  The new(ish) Launch enhancements are more precisely worded, stating that they improve speed and height.

 

The other one to which you referred in your first post, https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=boosts.attuned_launch_d.attuned_launch_d , denotes "Increased Jump Height" in the name because it has a third attrib on it, +level_variable% Maximum Jump Height.  It's the Launch set's special enhancement, like Hypersonic's +Fly Protection.  It doesn't just boost Jump Speed and Jump Height, it boosts those and bumps up the ceiling for Jump Height.  On my Staff/Willpower brute (+Movement Speed set bonuses, Combat Jumping and Athletic Run, no classic travel power), it increases Jump Height from 56.82' (without) to 69.59' (with).  If I were to replace it with Springfoot: Jump/End, which has the same 26.5% boost to Jump Height but no +MaxJumpHeight, I'd top out at only 58.94'.