The Immortal Dead

[C U R S E]

Hi Everyone I have been having such a great time with Necro ever since the changes they received. I have been brainstorming lately and due to the inherent toughness of the Necro pets, I trialed a new Necro/Pain MM. My decision was based upon the healing and regeneration that it can give to these corpses, but also the resistance and damage buffs. I have leveled a Necro/Pain to level 50 and was IO'd with sets and procs for the corpses lol. After playing my Necro/Dark which is still a power house, I did have quite a bit of knowledge in terms of building this character. I always felt there was one last piece missing from Necro, with the current changes and I think I found it. With the massive HP pool and Resistance from Dark Empowerment and Enchant undead, Pain Domination gives it: Regeneration as follows from the following uploads from the pets and myself. I also went ahead and slotted Vigor for my Alpha slot and that was the icing on the cake. This build eats everything alive and the survivability is beyond insane. If you would ask why not musculature, well there is no reason when the pets are getting a 42% damage increase. Oh and the damage resistance is very nice as well with the 17% increase to all from world of pain. Pain Bringer is cast on the Lich and turns him into a absolute terror with the 32% damage increase as well. So all in all as the title states: The Immortal Dead.

[Xandyr]

I'm playing one now! Couple things...

 

- How did you slot Dark Empowerment?

 

- didn't even think about going Vigor. Good call!

 

- if you slot the Panacea proc and/or Numina's proc in Suppress Pain, it can trigger on all in the radius of it

 

- why keep Painbringer on the Lich? I've been trying to keep it on my GKs as they have higher damage. AM I missing something?

 

- speaking of Painbringer, how did you slot it? 

 

Enchant I think I have 2 Gladiators (one is the unique), steadfast unique,  and the Imp Skin unique. 

 

 I may have to revisit mine...

[C U R S E]

Hey Xandr so to answer your questions:

 

1. Dark Empowerment is slotted is slotted with 3 Numina and a Panacea in which will proc on the pets nicely.

 

2. The Panacea is wasted in Suppress Pain I would slot it in Dark Empowerment. Suppress pain is slotted with 3 Numina as well. You will get some nice HP and regen from both sets.

 

3. The Grave Knights do not need Pain Bringer because of the Soul Bound Allegiance Proc, which will give a 80% damage buff. They can proc it twice at one time so it will double stack. Death Shroud is pretty potent for an AOE when it does. The Lich is pretty Anemic damage wise so conventional though is of course slotting a Clouded senses Neg. Energy Proc. As you can see in the picture above those numbers are with the pain bringer buff which I should have stated earlier. 85% damage and 86% Regen is insane numbers and he hits pretty hard now. 

 

4. Pain Bringer is slotted with a Healing/Recharge, a set of three from Doctored Wounds, Performance Shifter, and Numinas and boosted to +5 and with my Global Recharge at 85% its about 15 seconds off perma. Pain Bringer has a 300 second base recharge and when slotted gives a 1069% regeneration. World of Pain is slotted with 3 Resistance Recharge IO's and has a base 240 base recharge and for me is Perma. I invested maybe close to 400 million on this build which is pretty insanely cheap for the output you get from it lol.

 

5 I need to update Mid's to get my build posted. What server are you on? I am on Excelsior and my chat hand is @WIDOW and my MM is PaulBearer so feel free to look me up.

 

[C U R S E]

So I did try the Panacea and slotted it in Suppress Pain with the Numinas Regen/Recovery. The Panacea will proc with benefit to everyone, but the pets do not get the bonuses from the Numinas, only yourself. I kept it slotted in Dark Empowerment, where it was originally. Also slot the Impervious Skin Status resistance/Regen in Enchant undead, because your pets will get the bonuses.

[Xandyr]

3 hours ago, C U R S E said:

Hey Xandr so to answer your questions:

 

1. Dark Empowerment is slotted is slotted with 3 Numina and a Panacea in which will proc on the pets nicely.

 

2. The Panacea is wasted in Suppress Pain I would slot it in Dark Empowerment. Suppress pain is slotted with 3 Numina as well. You will get some nice HP and regen from both sets.

 

3. The Grave Knights do not need Pain Bringer because of the Soul Bound Allegiance Proc, which will give a 80% damage buff. They can proc it twice at one time so it will double stack. Death Shroud is pretty potent for an AOE when it does. The Lich is pretty Anemic damage wise so conventional though is of course slotting a Clouded senses Neg. Energy Proc. As you can see in the picture above those numbers are with the pain bringer buff which I should have stated earlier. 85% damage and 86% Regen is insane numbers and he hits pretty hard now. 

 

4. Pain Bringer is slotted with a Healing/Recharge, a set of three from Doctored Wounds, Performance Shifter, and Numinas and boosted to +5 and with my Global Recharge at 85% its about 15 seconds off perma. Pain Bringer has a 300 second base recharge and when slotted gives a 1069% regeneration. World of Pain is slotted with 3 Resistance Recharge IO's and has a base 240 base recharge and for me is Perma. I invested maybe close to 400 million on this build which is pretty insanely cheap for the output you get from it lol.

 

5 I need to update Mid's to get my build posted. What server are you on? I am on Excelsior and my chat hand is @WIDOW and my MM is PaulBearer so feel free to look me up.

 

I'm on Excelsior as well. I'll look you up!

[StrikerFox]

2 hours ago, C U R S E said:

So I did try the Panacea and slotted it in Suppress Pain with the Numinas Regen/Recovery. The Panacea will proc with benefit to everyone, but the pets do not get the bonuses from the Numinas, only yourself. I kept it slotted in Dark Empowerment, where it was originally. Also slot the Impervious Skin Status resistance/Regen in Enchant undead, because your pets will get the bonuses.

 

Does your pets need the +end from Numina's? If not, Regenerative Tissue unique provides more +regen then Numina's does. Or add both if you have a spare slot. Impervious Skin only provides +regen to pets. They do not get the +status res.

[C U R S E]

Hey Striker the pets will not benefit from Numina or Miracle. If you slot the Panacea then they will get the heal and the chance for End. With the Panacea and endurance reduction slotting in sets, there are no end issues with Necro. Yu are correct pets will not get the status reduction, but the Regen. 

[StrikerFox]

2 hours ago, C U R S E said:

Hey Striker the pets will not benefit from Numina or Miracle. If you slot the Panacea then they will get the heal and the chance for End. With the Panacea and endurance reduction slotting in sets, there are no end issues with Necro. Yu are correct pets will not get the status reduction, but the Regen. 

 

I meant in Dark Empowerment.

[Xandyr]

I have the Regenerative proc in DE, and the pets get that bonus.

 It looks like I need to play around a bit. I have 2 Panacea (one is the proc) and 4 Numina's (one is proc) in Suppress Pain. Maybe I need to put those procs in DE along with Regenerative.

[Onlyasandwich]

5 hours ago, Xandyr said:

Suppress Pain. Maybe I need to put those procs in DE along with Regenerative.

Panacea proc belongs in Suppress Pain. Here, it will proc not only on yourself, but pets and allies within radius. There is no advantage to putting it in DE.

 

Personally I find the tiny amount of regen offered by Numina and Regen tissue pretty bad return for slot investment on a MM, as Pet HP isn't all that high. Even at max level with DE fully enhanced for heal, you're talking like 2-3 hp per second for each unique on the lich, and even less for the lower minions. You are better served maxing the heal enhancement of DE, then using those slots elsewhere for damage procs, slow resist, personal end support, or other places you find interesting. I haven't verified with my own testing, but I saw someone say that they found slotting DE for endredux also reduces the end consumption of Necro pets, which would be a worthier return for Pet endurance if you find that an issue. 

 

Personally, I slot DE with one 53 Golgi and a +5 Heal IO. This helps me save on recast mid battle when having to resummon, gets near enough to ED caps, and if the end trick actually works hey why not, that too.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Onlyasandwich

[C U R S E]

Hey Sandwhich so you are so so right and I apologize to everyone because I played around with this with my Dark/Necro MM and I did not see the bonus with Numina and Miracle after the changes. I just re-slotted the Numinas and Miracle in DE, and Bingo they do get the bonuses. The Regen just jumped even more for these corpses. You do not need to slot End Reduction in DE, that is a waste of slotting. Necro does not have End issues at all, the corpses are energizer batteries eating brains lol. Now the PAnacea in Suppress pain is an interesting idea, but with it slotted in DE the pets will benefit from it even if they are outside your Regen Aura, which is what I like. Its personal preference indeed with your slotting and this thread is all about ideas for sure. Regen on Necro is beautiful because they are the only set that gives a decent size bump to HP with DE. I will need to do some reslotting indeed with Numinas and Miracle for sure. 

[C U R S E]

So I did go ahead and place the Numinas Regen/Recovery and Miracle regen in DE and I think it was worth while. The Regen for the corpses increased by a decent amount above what they have, but the icing on the cake was the 6% Heal from Numinas I never though of.

[StrikerFox]

8 minutes ago, C U R S E said:

So I did go ahead and place the Numinas Regen/Recovery and Miracle regen in DE and I think it was worth while. The Regen for the corpses increased by a decent amount above what they have, but the icing on the cake was the 6% Heal from Numinas I never though of.

 

Miracle doesn't provide +regen, Regenerative Tissue does. Miracle provides +rec. 

[Xandyr]

1 hour ago, C U R S E said:

Hey Sandwhich so you are so so right and I apologize to everyone because I played around with this with my Dark/Necro MM and I did not see the bonus with Numina and Miracle after the changes. I just re-slotted the Numinas and Miracle in DE, and Bingo they do get the bonuses. The Regen just jumped even more for these corpses. You do not need to slot End Reduction in DE, that is a waste of slotting. Necro does not have End issues at all, the corpses are energizer batteries eating brains lol. Now the PAnacea in Suppress pain is an interesting idea, but with it slotted in DE the pets will benefit from it even if they are outside your Regen Aura, which is what I like. Its personal preference indeed with your slotting and this thread is all about ideas for sure. Regen on Necro is beautiful because they are the only set that gives a decent size bump to HP with DE. I will need to do some reslotting indeed with Numinas and Miracle for sure. 

I'll admit...I DO hate trying to make sure my pets (and team members...aka my "other pets" haha) are in the radius of Suppress Pain. 

 I also like the End Bonus from the 2 Panacea pieces and the Heal bonus with 4 Numina's (again, one of which is the proc) in SP. I am constantly healing and attacking (to spawn spectres) so the extr end recovery is nice.

 I'm about to jump on my PC and play around in Mids....curses CURSE! 

[Xandyr]

17 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

 

Miracle doesn't provide +regen, Regenerative Tissue does. Miracle provides +rec. 

I slotted Miracle in Health.

[C U R S E]

So I am going to post my build with screen shot because I am still having trouble with Mids. Three shots taken because I could not get all the powers and sets in one.

[StrikerFox]

1 hour ago, Xandyr said:

I slotted Miracle in Health.

 

I was talking to C U R S E. That's why his comment was quoted in my reply.

[Xandyr]

6 minutes ago, StrikerFox said:

 

I was talking to C U R S E. That's why his comment was quoted in my reply.

I know. I was just saying that I went ahead and put the Miracle proc in Health.

[Raikao]

Fiddled with it a little. Don't think it looks all that great on paper. Pets have huge resist gaps on Lethal and other dmg types. Maybe I just don't get /pain. Gets to 75% s/l resist on the MM and decent cooldown reduction. I feel like Necro wants Soul Extraction up as often as possible.

 

 

  Necro+Pain.mbd

Edited August 28, 2023 by Raikao

[C U R S E]

Hey Raiko so I do not think a 57% Resistance is a huge gap for the Necro Pets in some of the damage types. For instance, Fire is probably one of the least resisted of all types and the pets have no inherent resistance to it. With world of pain and the Pets damage resistance IO's that is pushed to 57 on my corpses, but they are also capped at 90% at a lot of other damage types. I understand where you are at because I felt the same way at the beginning, but then I realized the key was suppress pain, your regen Aura. I maxed out all my healing sets and took vigor for my Alpha, 45% increase to healing and that is what you are missing. The resistance, Damage bonus, and Regeneration is the icing on the cake. We talked quite a bit about this in earlier posts, but this MM and its corpses are a wrecking machine that just regenerated at ridiculous levels. Soul Extraction should be slotted with a pet set for the recharge. I have 85% global and Soul Extraction is up every 24 seconds for me which is well beyond what I need for the extra Ghastly Blasts. I would not advise a Resistance toggle on your MM, I went with Scorpion shield, because you get the innate 75% from your pets, depending on your stance. I have posted my build and sets for you and this MM is one tough corpse for sure, if I can help in any other way let me know, will be glad to help.

[C U R S E]

This is my group of corpses, look me up on Excelsior happy to help.

[Raikao]

12 hours ago, C U R S E said:

Hey Raiko so I do not think a 57% Resistance is a huge gap for the Necro Pets in some of the damage types. For instance, Fire is probably one of the least resisted of all types and the pets have no inherent resistance to it. With world of pain and the Pets damage resistance IO's that is pushed to 57 on my corpses, but they are also capped at 90% at a lot of other damage types. I understand where you are at because I felt the same way at the beginning, but then I realized the key was suppress pain, your regen Aura. I maxed out all my healing sets and took vigor for my Alpha, 45% increase to healing and that is what you are missing. The resistance, Damage bonus, and Regeneration is the icing on the cake. We talked quite a bit about this in earlier posts, but this MM and its corpses are a wrecking machine that just regenerated at ridiculous levels. Soul Extraction should be slotted with a pet set for the recharge. I have 85% global and Soul Extraction is up every 24 seconds for me which is well beyond what I need for the extra Ghastly Blasts. I would not advise a Resistance toggle on your MM, I went with Scorpion shield, because you get the innate 75% from your pets, depending on your stance. I have posted my build and sets for you and this MM is one tough corpse for sure, if I can help in any other way let me know, will be glad to help.

 

I get that you emphasize resistances and healing, which does go well together. I just think the gaps in certain resist means your minions fall over against certain AVs. But I don't know either way. It was just an observation at first glance.

 

"Soul Extraction should be slotted with a pet set for the recharge."  <- what does that mean? I have no idea what you're trying to say here. I have 94% recharge slotted, so what do you mean here?

 

I don't see the value in going for personal defense on a resist secondary. You're not softcapped anyway. But as I said, I might not get /Pain, I usually play defensive oriented sets. I shelved my Necro/Nature for a Necro/FF for that reason.

 

The 75% resistance from Bodyguard is calculated after the MMs resist as far as I know. Otherwise resist secondaries and pool powers would be literal dogshit.

 

 

[C U R S E]

So you are right you play to the strengths of your Pets and the Secondary you choose. Necro strengths are Resistance of course and the beefed up HP pool and healing. As far as a personal choice for defense I have built for that and achieve close to 32% to S&L with Scorpion shield, My personal regeneration is at 33 HP a sec. on a MM with 1020 HP total and also you factor in the Heals, which are sweet. The corpses also have Life drain and that also adds into their sturdiness as well. The Healing, Regen, and Resistance is essentially layered and that is how I built this MM. Remember the pets have -to hit as well and that factors in  as well, so in my opinion with this build, its true and tested. Recharge intensive pets is slotted in soul extraction for the recharge bonus and with 94% global it will be up pretty quick for you. Defensive secondaries are fine, but you are not playing to the strengths of Necro as a set at all in my opinion. 

[Groovy_Ghoul]

I’ve been wanting to level a Necro MM since the update and was mostly fixated on a /FF until I read this post. Looks like a fun and strong build.

 

Mids was just updated, is it possible for you to post your build. The screenshots do not show everything.

 

Can you list your incarnates, types (core/radial) and reasons why? Vigor looks like a great choice.

 

Thanks!

[C U R S E]

Hey Groovy how are you? I would love to post my build with Mids, but I am still having trouble with it. I am working still on it as we speak and hope to have it resolved soon. As for the incarnates my Alpha is Vigor for the 45% Heal, which increases Regen and heals for the corpses and myself by a lot. The interface is a toss up and will be your own choice, but I am using Diagnematic for the - to hit which stacks with the - to hit from the dead and the - regen from the interface slot.  I have not gotten too much further with incarnates as I am still leveling them in Dark Astoria. Yes it is a very very fun build and very strong. This is not a hang back and watch your minions do damage, to me that is a very very boring build. You are right in the middle of the pack always with your regen sphere and healing, along with using all 3 offensive powers to keep the spectres up. Lastly the icing on the cake is soul extraction which is down right evil and the best  MM summon.