Fixing consume and dark consumption, and related issues.

[Luminara]

So now the comparison is two individual powers to entire secondary sets.

 

The goal post is on Ross 128 b now.  If you'll please board the rocket ship, ladies and gentlemen, we'll continue this discussion there.

[WindDemon21]

9 minutes ago, Rudra said:

No, they don't. Ice Armor for instance, where you find Energy Absorption, has 0% END drain resistance scattered across all 9 of its powers. Energy Aura and Electric Armor do get END drain resistance, but only in their specific resistance powers. Except for Sentinel Energy Aura (which is where you find Power Drain) which again has 0% END drain resistance across all 9 of its powers.

 

So let's take a look at the sets. You want to compare the END drain resistance in Consume to the END drain resistance granted by the resistance, not the drains or defenses, of energy-based armor sets. And then claim they aren't equal so Consume needs a buff? They aren't even thematically the same or function the same. And even among the energy-based armor sets, Fiery Aura's Consume grants more END drain protection than all of Sentinel's Energy Aura. (I looked at every power in Sentinel Energy Aura on CoD. Not a single one had X% resist (Endurance).)

 

Your argument boils down to you don't like that Consume and Dark Consumption take so long to recharge out of the box, and ignoring everything other than the +END in Consume, they are under-powered. Dark Consumption because you think it is not a good enough attack and Consume because you think the only thing that matters from it is the +END and everything else should be ignored or moved into other powers, preferably auto powers so they constantly grant those benefits which would make them so OP as to break the set with absolutely any amount of enhancement slotting. And even when you propose a nerf for balance, like you did with Dark Consumption to reduce the total END gained to 83.33 END with 10 targets drained instead of 125 gained from 5 targets, it is still a huge buff because you want it to have a 40 second recharge which means it can be used primarily as an attack that also happens to grant up to 83.33 END before you slot END enhancements and would be able to use it every 13.33 seconds, using the example that we can already get the 3 minute recharge down to 1 minute with ease as a reference for that math. The game is already ridiculously easy. Stop asking to make it even easier.

The problem with that line of thinking already is, that you don't think that the power needs a buff at all. (which again, flabbergasted, but lets move on). That said, you're doubling down on being "shocked" that the end result of any changes, would mean that you get more endurance out of them than you currently do in their current forms. Which YES, that is ENTIRELY the point I'm trying to get across. The other being the sheer annoyance of the recharge times making it that much more annoying to have to wait for it to be up at more profitable times, EVEN on a full build with lots of rech/hasten/bonuses.

 

That said, regarding DC at least, it should be more of an "attack" than it currently is at that recharge, even if that DID mean slightly less endurance, but that would still generally mean more endurance than it does currently due to how out of balance that horridly long recharge is.

[WindDemon21]

3 minutes ago, Luminara said:

So now the comparison is two individual powers to entire secondary sets.

 

The goal post is on Ross 128 b now.  If you'll please board the rocket ship, ladies and gentlemen, we'll continue this discussion there.

Again, didn't read properly what I said. I was referencing them with ALL factors into context. Is your brain even running? Seriously, you might need to shut it down and defragment it.

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

That said, regarding DC at least, it should be more of an "attack" than it currently is at that recharge, even if that DID mean slightly less endurance, but that would still generally mean more endurance than it does currently due to how out of balance that horridly long recharge is.

That is strictly your opinion, and reading this thread, one only you hold.

 

13 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

The problem with that line of thinking already is, that you don't think that the power needs a buff at all. (which again, flabbergasted, but lets move on). That said, you're doubling down on being "shocked" that the end result of any changes, would mean that you get more endurance out of them than you currently do in their current forms. Which YES, that is ENTIRELY the point I'm trying to get across. The other being the sheer annoyance of the recharge times making it that much more annoying to have to wait for it to be up at more profitable times, EVEN on a full build with lots of rech/hasten/bonuses.

Which again is strictly your opinion that does not seem to be shared according to this thread.

 

Dark Consumption and Consume are not meant to be constant use powers. If that frustrates you, and apparently only you, then maybe don't play those sets. You are constantly trying to make the game what you want and to hell with anyone else's feedback or opinion on the matter. Because obviously, you know the best, right?

 

Can we please get this thread locked? The only advocate is the author and (s)he/they don't give a damn what anyone else has to say on the matter.

[WindDemon21]

Just now, Rudra said:

That is strictly your opinion, and reading this thread, one only you hold.

Regarding this thread only so far yes. Which is why i wouldn't push to have it that much more skewed as an attack. That said, the power would still be warranted for a much shorter base recharge with the main focus still on the end return.

 

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

The only advocate is the author and (s)he/they don't give a damn what anyone else has to say on the matter.

Annoyingly when I know so many who agree how it seems to be the case with some frequent forumites. And that's not true, or I wouldn't say what I've just said in the sentence above.

 

And again, even at 60s, theyr're still not "constant" use powers.

 

Alternatively, you could also simply ignore the thread and turn off notifications for it.

[Rudra]

7 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

Regarding this thread only so far yes.

Yes, exactly, this specific thread. You have 0 support from anyone on this thread after 5 pages and 25 days. And yet you insist that only you are correct; that the Live devs were wrong or idiots for designing the powers in question the way they did, that the posters on this thread other than yourself are wrong, idiots, or incapable of reading your posts in regards to these two powers, and you keep pushing the goal posts further out for what we should be comparing these two powers to in order to make them "proper" and "balanced" powers, in strictly your opinion.

 

In point of fact, you have provided 0 links to any supporting data, the only data you have actually provided is what you want the powers to be like, and have provided nothing that actually says anything about the powers having any actual problems that are not specifically your opinion on the matter. And you insist on ignoring any provided, and even linked, data that refutes you. Such as when you say that all "comparable" armors get END drain resistance automatically when in fact, they don't. Or that a +5% recovery boost is meager when it can provide 2.755 END per target, that's 27.55 END if 10 targets are drained, on top of the character's existing recovery buffs and the up front END Consume gives. (Edit: To put this meager recovery boost into perspective, at base value, Consume can grant the character +50% Recovery if all 10 targets are hit. And if you just slot for ENDMod? It can get up to +109.1% Recovery if all 10 targets are hit. That isn't meager even at 15 seconds of duration.) Because it doesn't fit your narrative, it must therefor be "meager" and not worth thinking about. This is why I am asking for the thread to be locked. You refuse to accept anything that does not fit your narrative and have spent the past 5 pages being "the lone voice of reason" against everyone trying to explain to you why your approach on the matter is wrong.

 

Edit: And obviously I need to take another break from this thread for a while.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Rudra

[WindDemon21]

3 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Yes, exactly, this specific thread. You have 0 support from anyone on this thread after 5 pages and 25 days. And yet you insist that only you are correct; that the Live devs were wrong or idiots for designing the powers in question the way they did, that the posters on this thread other than yourself are wrong, idiots, or incapable of reading your posts in regards to these two powers, and you keep pushing the goal posts further out for what we should be comparing these two powers to in order to make them "proper" and "balanced" powers, in strictly your opinion.

 

In point of fact, you have provided 0 links to any supporting data, the only data you have actually provided is what you want the powers to be like, and have provided nothing that actually says anything about the powers having any actual problems that are not specifically your opinion on the matter. And you insist on ignoring any provided, and even linked, data that refutes you. Such as when you say that all "comparable" armors get END drain resistance automatically when in fact, they don't. Or that a +5% recovery boost is meager when it can provide 2.755 END per target, that's 27.55 END if 10 targets are drained, on top of the character's existing recovery buffs and the up front END Consume gives. Because it doesn't fit your narrative, it must therefor be "meager" and not worth thinking about. This is why I am asking for the thread to be locked. You refuse to accept anything that does not fit your narrative and have spent the past 5 pages being "the lone voice of reason" against everyone trying to explain to you why your approach on the matter is wrong.

I could post the other sets power stats sure, but forgive me for assuming that some of you would actually know what they are so it wouldn't be necessary to do so. I haven't pushed out any goal posts as you say, the only thing I HAVE done so far, is try to come to a middle ground on the powers based on what I'd like to see, and what you would, but again, of course you choose to ignore that.

 

There are no links provided that I haven't already either gone over or accounted for. Providing links for these powers would just be senseless copy and pasting for anything that wasn't already said in the thread. 5% per target flat rate, yes it is meager given the duration and recharge on the power, if it was perma-able via a long duration buff, then we're talking about something relevant, but at 15s, while i'ts there versus not, it factors VERY little into the power.

 

12 minutes ago, Rudra said:

And you insist on ignoring any provided, and even linked, data that refutes you.

Not once have I refuted any ACTUAL data that already exists in game via a powers numbers. Please show me exactly where I said something had a specific number value and said that that wasn't the case, because unless there was an extremely misplaced typo I missed, I guarantee you can't. (again, straight number value, not conjecture based on what other people "feel" is fine", as the straight numbers, are what actual data is, and don't just paste data someone provided, cause obviously I'm already well aware of the actual numbers that exist in game)

 

15 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Such as when you say that all "comparable" armors get END drain resistance automatically when in fact, they don't.

I never said that. I said that MOST get the end drain resistance. The only one with a similar aoe end drain power that doesn't is ice armor, to which I explained that while it doesn't get the resistance, what it does get is defense that can be capped to avoid the drains in the first place, same with bio, or even willpower if looking at quick recovery, or stone armor (which gets both). The ONLY armor set, that doesn't either have end drain resistance, or defense that can be capped to avoid it, is regen, which that's on it's own level of needing help which doesn't quite fit into the thread. So fire armor is not special in that regard. What it does have though, is while having zero defense boosting powers to avoid those drains in the first place, is a far too long recharging end gain power compared to other sets that offer end help. Unnecessarily as well, considering how very not OP it would make the set to fix that, simply place it in line with other sets.

 

 

[Rudra]

30 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

53 minutes ago, Rudra said:

And you insist on ignoring any provided, and even linked, data that refutes you.

Not once have I refuted any ACTUAL data that already exists in game via a powers numbers. Please show me exactly where I said something had a specific number value and said that that wasn't the case, because unless there was an extremely misplaced typo I missed, I guarantee you can't. (again, straight number value, not conjecture based on what other people "feel" is fine", as the straight numbers, are what actual data is, and don't just paste data someone provided, cause obviously I'm already well aware of the actual numbers that exist in game)

 

Someone said something about someone not actually reading their posts or misreading them?

[VashNKnives]

I use the ice, energy, and electricity recovery powers almost as soon as recharged. I almost forget I have consume and dark consumption since I use them so little. They are almost like accolades with shorter recharges... 

 

That said, as a non-dev plebian, I would be in favor of halving the recharge and/or adjusting the endurance returned scaling to start with one target and decrease with subsequent targets hit. It is probably a designed disadvantage how these powers and the warshade buffs inhibit the associated sets in long one-vs-one fights. However, many of those penalties built in via old design choices have been reduced or removed for other powers (nuke end drain, travel power debuffs, toggle dropping, etc.)

 

I know power-creep ... but is making these sets better in a one-vs-one boss fight that big of deal?

[Uun]

3 hours ago, WindDemon21 said:

I said that MOST get the end drain resistance

8 of the 13 armor sets get end drain resistance, although Invul and Energy only get 25% (Consume is 50%). Willpower's Quick Recovery does nothing against end drain - my WP brute gets drained and toggle dropped every time he fights Arachnos or Malta.

[WindDemon21]

15 hours ago, Uun said:

8 of the 13 armor sets get end drain resistance, although Invul and Energy only get 25% (Consume is 50%). Willpower's Quick Recovery does nothing against end drain - my WP brute gets drained and toggle dropped every time he fights Arachnos or Malta.

Right, which is about 2/3 ie most. You' re also missing the other part of that paragraph, where I mentioned that they either get (or both) resistance, or a big amount of defense to the types that cause drain in the first place which are cappable on those sets to avoid those drains from hitting you in the first place.

 

The only uniquely terrible set regarding either or is regen, which needs it's on big waves of help, but we all know that topic so should be ignored for now lol.