Onlyasandwich Posted November 29, 2023 Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) @Argentae's recent Fire/TA build got me thinking about TA on controllers in general. I love the set on my Defender, but feel like my life could use even more TA! Some observed synergy: Stack Mass Hyp and Poison Gas Arrow for consistent opening containment. /TA's pile of tricks rounds out Mind's somewhat uneven control package. I don't at all mean mind is weak, but relying on a fear that doesn't debuff at all as your bread and butter can be troublesome at times. /TA doesn't care about positioning, so operating at range for terrify cone is easy. Mind is the only control set I haven't hit 50 on (I have a mid 30's Mind/Dark that is pretty nice). I'd love your perspective on any power choice or slotting decisions here! Goals: Super mega proccy proc. Oh my the opportunities here are pretty magnificent. Most things I throw out will be doing respectable damage, and I want to keep it that way. This does require some nontraditional slotting here and there in pursuit of accuracy bonuses, as I haven't snagged tactics. Sneak in slow resist wherever possible. Resists as a secondary layer. This is not a softcap build, but I have a few odd bonuses here and there that flash arrow will stack with to make meaningful. Juice dat recharge so I can rotate Total Dom and Mass confusion in as much as possible. Max hit chance against +3's. Where I'd most like to improve: More slow resist. 80+ ideally. Really this should only take one more slot, but perhaps you see a creative way to get there using existing slots without sacrificing the above priorities. Another slot to throw for endredux in TK. To be honest I view it as a novelty power, but want to try and put it through its paces to find good uses. A bit more end support would be nice if I could find the slots. I'd love to find a good place for Energy Font proc. Not really sure where I'd put it even if I had the free slot to be honest. Do you use this proc on your Mind/? Pointing out some obviously odd slotting choices: Glue arrow is heavily slotted here. The procs are a requirement, but if you see a better way to snag the acc, slow resist, and recharge all in one while enhancing a power more meaningfully, that would be a good shift! As it stands, Ice mistral is just a really good set. Immob proc in Terrify. Hey hey - 66% chance for mag 3 immob = pretty good chances for containment on a lot of the spawn with a tool I am constantly cycling! I like it. Controller (Mind Control - Trick Arrow).mbd Text version: Spoiler Selected Powers Level 1: Levitate Slot Level 1: Apocalypse: Damage Slot Level 36: Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage(Toxic) Slot Level 50: Explosive Strike: Chance for Smashing Damage Level 1: Flash Arrow Slot Level 1: Siphon Insight: ToHit Debuff Slot Level 46: Siphon Insight: Accuracy/ToHit Debuff Slot Level 46: Siphon Insight: ToHit Debuff/Endurance/Recharge Slot Level 48: Siphon Insight: Chance for +ToHit Level 2: Dominate Slot Level 2: Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage(Toxic) Slot Level 3: Apocalypse: Chance of Damage(Negative) Slot Level 3: Neuronic Shutdown: Chance of Damage(Psionic) Slot Level 45: Ghost Widow's Embrace: Chance of Damage(Psionic) Slot Level 45: Gladiator's Net: Chance of Damage(Lethal) Slot Level 46: Unbreakable Constraint: Chance for Smashing Damage Level 4: Glue Arrow Slot Level 4: Impeded Swiftness: Chance of Damage(Smashing) Slot Level 5: Ice Mistral's Torment: Chance for Cold Damage Slot Level 5: Ice Mistral's Torment: Endurance/Slow Slot Level 34: Ice Mistral's Torment: Damage/Slow Slot Level 45: Ice Mistral's Torment: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance Slot Level 50: Ice Mistral's Torment: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge Level 6: Confuse Slot Level 6: Coercive Persuasion : Confused Slot Level 7: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Recharge Slot Level 7: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Recharge/Accuracy Slot Level 42: Coercive Persuasion : Recharge/Accuracy Slot Level 42: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Endurance Slot Level 43: Coercive Persuasion : Contagious Confusion Level 8: Mass Hypnosis Slot Level 8: Fortunata Hypnosis: Sleep/Recharge Slot Level 9: Fortunata Hypnosis: Sleep/Recharge/Accuracy Slot Level 9: Fortunata Hypnosis: Recharge/Accuracy Slot Level 40: Fortunata Hypnosis: Sleep/Endurance Slot Level 42: Fortunata Hypnosis: Chance for Placate Level 10: Ice Arrow Slot Level 10: Impeded Swiftness: Chance of Damage(Smashing) Slot Level 11: Ice Mistral's Torment: Chance for Cold Damage Slot Level 11: Neuronic Shutdown: Chance of Damage(Psionic) Slot Level 13: Ghost Widow's Embrace: Chance of Damage(Psionic) Slot Level 13: Gladiator's Net: Chance of Damage(Lethal) Slot Level 17: Superior Will of the Controller: Recharge/Chance for Psionic Damage Level 12: Telekinesis Slot Level 12: Invention: Endurance Reduction Level 14: Combat Jumping Slot Level 14: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed Slot Level 15: Reactive Defenses: Scaling Resist Damage Slot Level 15: Shield Wall: +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All) Slot Level 17: Kismet: Accuracy +6% Slot Level 43: Winter's Gift: Slow Resistance (20%) Level 16: Poison Gas Arrow Slot Level 16: Call of the Sandman: Accuracy/Endurance Level 18: Total Domination Slot Level 18: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold Slot Level 19: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold/Recharge Slot Level 19: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold/Recharge/Accuracy Slot Level 40: Unbreakable Constraint: Recharge/Accuracy Slot Level 40: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold/Endurance Level 20: Acid Arrow Slot Level 20: Bombardment: Chance for Fire Damage Slot Level 21: Javelin Volley: Chance of Damage(Lethal) Slot Level 21: Positron's Blast: Chance of Damage(Energy) Slot Level 34: Shield Breaker: Chance for Lethal Damage Slot Level 37: Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Damage Slot Level 39: Achilles' Heel: Chance for Res Debuff Level 22: Terrify Slot Level 22: Superior Frozen Blast: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance Slot Level 23: Superior Frozen Blast: Recharge/Chance for Immobilize Slot Level 23: Glimpse of the Abyss: Chance of Damage(Psionic) Slot Level 25: Bombardment: Chance for Fire Damage Slot Level 25: Positron's Blast: Chance of Damage(Energy) Slot Level 50: Javelin Volley: Chance of Damage(Lethal) Level 24: Disruption Arrow Slot Level 24: Performance Shifter: Chance for +End Level 26: Mass Confusion Slot Level 26: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration Slot Level 27: Superior Will of the Controller: Control Duration/Recharge Slot Level 27: Superior Will of the Controller: Endurance/Recharge Slot Level 33: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance Slot Level 34: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance/Recharge Level 28: Oil Slick Arrow Slot Level 28: Ragnarok: Damage Slot Level 29: Ragnarok: Damage/Recharge Slot Level 29: Ragnarok: Damage/Recharge/Accuracy Slot Level 33: Ragnarok: Recharge/Accuracy Slot Level 43: Ragnarok: Damage/Endurance Level 30: EMP Arrow Slot Level 30: Basilisk's Gaze: Accuracy/Recharge Slot Level 31: Basilisk's Gaze: Accuracy/Hold Slot Level 31: Basilisk's Gaze: Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold Slot Level 31: Basilisk's Gaze: Endurance/Recharge/Hold Level 32: Hasten Slot Level 32: Invention: Recharge Reduction Slot Level 33: Invention: Recharge Reduction Level 35: Fire Ball Slot Level 35: Superior Frozen Blast: Accuracy/Damage Slot Level 36: Superior Frozen Blast: Damage/Endurance Slot Level 36: Positron's Blast: Chance of Damage(Energy) Slot Level 37: Bombardment: Chance for Fire Damage Slot Level 37: Javelin Volley: Chance of Damage(Lethal) Level 38: Fire Shield Slot Level 38: Gladiator's Armor: End/Resist Slot Level 39: Gladiator's Armor: Resistance Slot Level 39: Gladiator's Armor: TP Protection +3% Def (All) Level 41: Spirit Ward Slot Level 41: Preventive Medicine: Chance for +Absorb Level 44: Mystic Flight Slot Level 44: Blessing of the Zephyr: Knockback Reduction (4 points) Level 47: Rune of Protection Slot Level 47: Steadfast Protection: Resistance/+Def 3% Level 49: Maneuvers Slot Level 49: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed Inherent Powers Health: Slot Level 1: Panacea: +Hit Points/Endurance Slot Level 48: Miracle: +Recovery Stamina: Slot Level 1: Performance Shifter: Chance for +End Slot Level 48: Performance Shifter: EndMod Incarnate Abilities Musculature Radial Paragon (Alpha) Totals: Spoiler Defense Resistance Sustain Offense Debuff Resistance Smashing:11.65% Smashing:49.32% Max HP:101.13% (1028.45 HP) Haste:148.75% Defense:0% Lethal:11.65% Lethal:49.32% Regeneration:140% (6/s) Damage:8% Endurance:0% Fire:11.65% Fire:56.05% Max End:100% To Hit:6% Recovery:0% Cold:11.65% Cold:41.03% Recovery:184% (3.07/s) Accuracy:76% Perception:0% Energy:16.65% Energy:8% End Usage:0.7/s End Reduction:0% ToHit:0% Negative:16.65% Negative:8% Recharge:60% Toxic:11.65% Toxic:8% Movement:60% Psionic:11.65% Psionic:8% Regeneration:0% Melee:11.65% Ranged:17.9% AoE:11.65% Edited November 29, 2023 by Onlyasandwich 3
Argentae Posted November 30, 2023 Posted November 30, 2023 Sounds like a great project. My original main was Mind/Kin and I had a lowby Mind/TA that I never finished leveling on live. Was a control monster from the start. Needed more AOE damage, but I never got him to Oil Slick levels. didn’t get a chance to look at the builds yet as I’m on my phone, but will do so! 1
Argentae Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) That's a *really* good build. It's actually super useful for me personally, as I haven't built out an IO set build for /TA yet. One of the gems I saw in the set is the plethora of AOE powers, I hadn't really started looking at what could be done with proc slotting yet, and the result is quite impressive. 🙂 As mentioned elsewhere, the addition of EMP Arrow as a third long recharge AOE control with TD and MC is a lovely addition, and the AOE damage from all the procs in TA Arrows should go a long way towards addressing the lack of AOE (obviously leaving out Terrify) in Mind/. :: sigh :: 😛 Now I simply *have* to put Blackfire Archer on pause and work on a Mind/Trick Arrow. I've been missing playing Mind/... I recreated the original Argentae (Mind/Kin) on Torchbearer , but spent a lot of time on various Fire/ and Plant/ combos since. I think all my commentary is more along the lines of playstyle. TK: For context, I was a huge fan of TK back in the pre-ED times before it got shafted. It was one of the few powers that was limited by PLAYER skill as opposed to slotting. You could do some amazing things in terms of hall sweeping and clumping up spawns, but it took practice. When they dropped it to target cap of 5 WITHOUT changing the massive end consumption it really gutted the usefulness of the power. It's still handy for quickly stacking mag on something like a Paragon Protector to keep them from going MoG on you, or helping control two bosses more effectively, but it's such a pale echo of it's former self that I find it almost painful to use now. Really long lasting PTND (Post Traumatic Nerf Disorder) for me. That said, given the addition of Ice Arrow to your single target control stable (Mind's forte) I would personally prefer to have Mesmerize instead of TK. Single target sleep is amazingly useful for putting outlying problem mobs on hold, and given it's inherent accuracy and massive duration, with all the +Acc slotting I think you could probably use it as a Sandman heal proc mule with just the single slot you have now in TK. Obviously I'd play with it on the way up and see if your playstyle really benefits from TK enough to make it worthwhile, but even with Panacea, Miracle and two Perf Shifters (love the Perf Shift proc in disruption Arrow btw) I think Mesmerize will be a better power to have though still situational. On the positive side, TK used in bursts is somewhat useful as a positioning power, which certainly does have some use. You went Musculature, which makes a lot of sense. Did you specifically weigh Intuition Radial Paragon against it? It has the +Dmg, ToHit, and adds Hold, Range and Slow as well which are all useful for Mind/TA. You have so many hold powers and with Dom and Ice Arrow both fully slotted for procs (which I 100% agree with) that +Hold in Intuition Radial Paragon would be quite helpful. The +Range would have good benefits for TA in terms of your setup arrow(s) if nothing else. You would lose the +Endmod (limited effect given only Stamina would be affected), and Immob (only Entangling Arrow as the immob from the Terrify Proc wouldn't benefit). What are you thinking for Interface and Destiny? I'd be tempted to go with Diamagnetic or Cognitive for interface and probably Clarion for Destiny. <Edit to add> To clarify: You have a single Call of the Sandman slotted in PGA, but it's NOT the heal proc. Typo or choice? I might try and free up a slot to add to Mass Hyp and slot a Sandman heal proc in Mass Hyp, Poison Gas Arrow, AND Mesmerize. All three of them would have a decent chance to proc, and that could go some distance towards providing the self heal that Mind/TA is missing. </Edit to add> Edited December 3, 2023 by Argentae 2
Onlyasandwich Posted December 3, 2023 Author Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Argentae said: Sandman heal proc mule Thank you for the thoughtful input, Argentae! I think we're already on the same page with this one 😄. I had actually revised the build since posting, swapping out Levitate for Mesmerize, and loading it with the sandman proc. Levitate is for sure a better controller "blast," but Mesmerize is decent enough damage, and has other uses beyond. Incorporating sandman into my attack chain gives me a steady stream of regular healing that can help patch up what gets through. I had intentionally left the sandman proc out of PGA. The build would be happy for a bit of extra end, and endredux slotting for something in my opener is pretty meaningful. Ideally I'd have extra slots to spare for sandman proc in mass hyp and PGA, but there isn't really any easy slot shift to make that I can see. I appreciate you outlining out TK experience! I don't anticipate it being a staple, but it's a unique enough power that I want to run with it to play with use cases like what you describe here. If I do end up dropping it, I'll probably be picking up Entangling Arrow. Musculature's end benefit to stamina is just a little shy of being equal to an extra Miracle proc. This is a solid end bonus, and why I chose it. You're right though - Intuition provides a broader array of helpful benefits to the build. Hold enhancement and range are both very meaningful. I'll evaluate my end needs as I level and see how much I might actually value that extra end. As for Interface and Destiny, I don't generally like to plan my builds around them. For interface, I typically go with what is thematic. I might actually go spectral radial for the exotic damage type and layered immob proc that can help with containment, especially containment for my initial fireball. Destiny will most likely be Barrier if I get to that point. The build could benefit solidly from any of them, really. As much as I like ageless, I don't like leaning on it for end support even if I incarnate out a character. Clarion is nice, but Rune gives me a pretty good mez crutch for situations where I'm not being proactive enough (or unlucky) with my controls. Rebirth is just generically good. Edited December 3, 2023 by Onlyasandwich
Argentae Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 I started down the path with Tactical Psychic, so I’m sure my thoughts will evolve. I'm doing much better at balancing the sets on the way up on this one. Have pretty much all the Arrows up to Acid Arrow and everything except TK and TD on the mind side. I think I’m going to plan on a respec when I have enough of the AoE powers available to shift from +2/3 X 2/3 spawns to larger numbers. Now that I have Ice Arrow, Glue Arrow, and Acid Arrow I’ve been playing with integrating them. I’m about to pick up Terrify so I’ll have a working AOE chain as I have enough slots to go around. I’ll probably try out some different options, so may have different thoughts than the above. It’s absolutely a small spawn hard target monster. I love finding a pair of +1/+2 bosses out street sweeping. Or a Boss with a Lt. that’s the sweet spot. 🙂 1
Onlyasandwich Posted December 5, 2023 Author Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) On 12/3/2023 at 12:13 PM, Argentae said: TK used in bursts After playing this guy to 30ish, I'm actually pretty surprised at how useful TK is! As you said, a quick extra, instant hold layer is pretty useful sometimes, especially when you really need to hit. The repel is super focused, accurate, and stronger than other effects I am used to (really just hurricane, which has weak sauce repel these days) . This makes it a very satisfying tool to reposition chunks of the spawn when needed. It's by no means a staple, but I get solid use out of it here and there. Just one more pretty powerful trick to pull out of the bag. I do think it could stand either a huge end cut, or an increased target cap though. Even so, the end cost is manageable with only an endredux SO if I slow down my other power usage for a moment. This helps me focus on proper maneuvering as well. Edited December 5, 2023 by Onlyasandwich 1 1
Scarlet Shocker Posted December 7, 2023 Posted December 7, 2023 I seem to remember running one on live, but from memory - and it's difficult because my only real recollection is that it was painfully slow - is that it was excruciatingly slow. Sure, I could lock down a room solo, but actually killing (*cough* sorry defeating) mobs was a challenge even with the Prestige powers and other bags of tricks (though I never used the temps from P2W) Strong, but needed a team to get the best out of, and IIRC it didn't make it to 50, I think being one of those that faded into oblivion in the high 40s. There's a fine line between a numerator and a denominator but only a fraction of people understand that.
Onlyasandwich Posted December 8, 2023 Author Posted December 8, 2023 15 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said: killing (*cough* sorry defeating) mobs was a challenge Procs change this pretty phenomenally. Mind/ isn't really low damage compared to most primaries. You have a pretty averagely proccable aoe control in terrify, and the confuse powers add a sneaky amount of damage when used properly. You have better than average ST blast potential built in as well. /TA brings plenty of good damage to the table between offensive debuffs, oil slick arrow, and a wide array of aoe powers that take multiple procs. It all adds up to a pretty hefty combo. Granted, I didn't have a very satisfying churn on aoe damage until I got some solid recharge and hasten online. This really meshed around ~30ish.
Scarlet Shocker Posted December 8, 2023 Posted December 8, 2023 4 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said: Procs change this pretty phenomenally. Mind/ isn't really low damage compared to most primaries. You have a pretty averagely proccable aoe control in terrify, and the confuse powers add a sneaky amount of damage when used properly. You have better than average ST blast potential built in as well. /TA brings plenty of good damage to the table between offensive debuffs, oil slick arrow, and a wide array of aoe powers that take multiple procs. It all adds up to a pretty hefty combo. Granted, I didn't have a very satisfying churn on aoe damage until I got some solid recharge and hasten online. This really meshed around ~30ish. I tend not to start building properly until post-50, so I didn't experience that. I do have my 2nd ever 50, a Mind/Storm which can be devastating so I get how it's not necessarily the power set itself. A lot depends on play style and builds as a work-in-progress but I obviously didn't feel the love for that one enough to keep it going! There's a fine line between a numerator and a denominator but only a fraction of people understand that.
Lionade Posted December 17, 2023 Posted December 17, 2023 Grabbing some inspiration here for my mind/rad, and I'm glad to find a fellow TK enjoyer 😄 . Super, super interesting build here, I may need to try a proccy build after seeing this. Is there a reason you put Coercive Persuasion on Confuse rather than Mass Confusion? Been going back and forth on this myself, and it's hard to find good info on how the Contagious Confusion proc works. Can see how leaving the Psionic Damage proc off of Mass Confusion could keep it from being a power that causes aggro and then you're still able to make use of that proc Ice Arrow (which is pretty sweet). 1
Onlyasandwich Posted December 18, 2023 Author Posted December 18, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Lionade said: reason you put Coercive Persuasion on Confuse There are good reasons to slot it in both. Each proc is a 20 ft radius power that goes off centered on (and including) a target you confused. Targets affected by this power have a 33% chance of being affected by a short mag 2 confuse. In Mass Confusion, it would have an okay chance of stacking mag to confuse bosses in one go spawn wide. I'm not exactly sure if it may be limited to one strike per aoe like sandman. In Confuse, I'll still have a good shot at confusing a targeted boss in one go, and add the additional utility of the aoe in what was previously single target only. In either case, it doesn't change the non notify nature of the powers. MC might be the safer bet for easy lockdowns, but putting it in Confuse gives me more use cases where it will be worth popping Confuse outside of exemped content and really niche mobs. Edited December 18, 2023 by Onlyasandwich
Argentae Posted December 19, 2023 Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) I just got Tactical Psychic (TS) to 50 last night. Unlocked PPP so I could try out Waterspout, Coralax, and Bile Spray. Not a bad combo, Bile Spray holds the 3 Ranged AOE dmg procs and the -Res. Range is decent, I think its 60' (same as Terrify which is convenient) but only 30 degrees so it procs pretty well comparatively. Coralax actually survives pretty well because EVERYTHING is trying to kill me. And largely missing, and not doing catastrophic damage when they hit. PG Arrow is like having 40% Resist to everything. You really have to use the full Flash Arrow - Glue Arrow - PG Arrow combo together, it's good layered mitigation. My standard opening is a corner pull into Glue / Disruption / Oil Slick, using PGA as the triggering attack. Once they are largly clumped up and bouncing, step out, light the slick and hit Mass Confusion - Confuse on one boss, Dom - Ice Arrow on another and rotate confuse with the third. I generally don't have to worry too much about the Lts and minions, I'm generally playing my old use one puppet to beat on the one you are holding tactics and just focusing on bosses. I need a bind to cycle through JUST bosses. I think I'm getting a keypad (like my old Nostromo) for Christmas. I'm totally remembering why Mind/Kin was the original driver for the keypad controller in the first place! I'm still running Posi Blast in Terrify, but have Acid Arrow procced as you had in your build. I'll probably switch to the procs when I get the +Acc from the purple sets in, but I donb't think the damage is a LOT more with the procs because the Terrify cone is HUGE which drops the proc rate I was running CoT office building missions at X8 +2 and it's doable before any purple sets or incarnate. I'm currently playing with a Ranged Def focus with Posi blast 5 packs in Terrify, Oil Slick, and Water Spout (also has the FF +Rech) I definitely liked the Spirit Ward/Mystic Flight/RoP combo on the way up, very useful and I really didn't realize how much I would miss having a +Res power in the Primary or Secondary. I guess I've been playing too much /Dark and /Storm recently, I got spoiled. 😛 Given the Rang def focus I've put the WotC proc with the other 5 WotC so I have the full 6 set in MC (+5 Ranged Def). I agree with your take on CP and contagious confusion proc in Confuse btw. I'm pulling sets together as soon as I finish this post so I'll see how it works out. I did play a bit with TK again on the way up, and totally remembered why I liked it. It's a great positioning power combined with a hold so it's perfect for pushing bosses away that are trying to get into your personal space (aka melee range). Normally I'd go Hover - Fly - Evasive Maneuvers to be able to use it in 3 dimensions. It's a lot of fun to pin mobs against a wall by pushing them diagonally from above. I dropped it in my late 30s respec when I swapped out Sorcery for the Fighting pool, but I'm pondering what I could drop to pick it back up. This build is about having soooo many types of control, NOT having a positioning control that I have access to... It just feels wrong. It would be perfect to shove those Death Mages back into the Oilslick/Glue patch. I could swap out Hibernate for TK, would lose Preventative Medicine via free slot. This is SUCH a tight build! I'm pretty sure I'm going to play with some different Epic/PPP options before settling on one. Tweaks from your build that I'm considering: Since I want the + Ranged Def from WotC in MC, I replaced the WotC proc in Ice Arrow with Sup Entomb + Rech and +Absorb. The + Rech is only 23% so I don't think it will kill the proc rates toooooo much, and the additional Absorb should help with the lack of self heal. Speaking of Heal, I have the Sandman and Entropic Heal in Mesmerize with the Glad Jav Dmg proc. Will see how it goes. Swapped out Sorcery Pool for Fighting pool as mentioned. Dark Watcher in Flash, still 4 pack, but for the +5 Rech. Actually, I'll just attach the current prospective Leviathan build: Tactical Psychic Prospective leviathan (Mind Control - Trick Arrow).mbd Edited December 19, 2023 by Argentae 1
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