Dark/Dark Controller help

[Rodimus98037]

Looking for some help with my Controller's build. she is only 40 ATM. Just need some advice on a solid build for End game. Thank You. 

[Argentae]

Congrats on choosing a fantastic Controller combination! Dark/Dark FTW.

 

I'm in the process of rebuilding my Dark/Dark ShadowFallen, partially because I snarfed all her IO sets for other builds, and partially because I have gotten my head wrapped around the proc options better than I did when I first re-created her. 

 

This is an end game build, so 5 purple sets and 5 LotGs, not cheap. BUT: I expect it will be a killer build. She was great at most everything before, and I've definitely made some improvements.

 

A couple of things that may not be totally intuitive if you haven't played around with procs much in control powers: 

 

1. Howling Twilight is the BOMB. It's literally a bomb, an auto hit mini nuke that stuns the spawn, and oh by the way is a team rez. You can swap out the -ToHit Absolute Amazement proc, but it builds on the -Tohit that the entire build is based on, so think about it. If I was goiong to swap it out I'd probably use the -Res proc in Annihilation. 15 ft radius.

 

2. Heart of Darkness is similarly a mini nuke that stuns the spawn with a 25 ft radius, so you can either use them back to back to get all the bosses, or you can space them out to keep things stunned longer. Neither is slotted for stun as they are largely all dmg procs.

 

Remember, your control isn't stuns, it's -ToHit paired with high def.

 

3. I went with Ice Mastery for the 5th LotG and the huge AOE damage of Ice Storm. You have enough pets that you can also duck into Hibernate for a bit if needed, so that's useful.

 

4. Don't forget to start with a Darkest Night corner pull into a Tar Patch if possible, it clumps the spawn up well. 

 

5. This build has  +63 Acc from sets, so if you are fighting high def mobs you should make sure you use Fearsome Stare with the Siphon Insight + ToHit proc before you drop Heart of Darkness (Howling Twilight is auto-hit so it doesn't matter).

 

Happy to answer any questions, and would love any feedback/thoughts on the build! 🙂

Shadowfallen Controller (Darkness Control - Darkness Affinity).mbd

Edited December 29, 2023 by Argentae

[Thrax]

I  had one I've since deleted.  Was super fear build.  Probably better, maybe some updates, but here it is anyway.  I'd say some good ideas from it anyway.

 

 

Scary Thrax Controller - Darkness Control - Darkness Affinity.mxd

[vibal]

16 hours ago, Argentae said:

Happy to answer any questions, and would love any feedback/thoughts on the build! 🙂

Shadowfallen Controller (Darkness Control - Darkness Affinity).mbd 43.09 kB · 2 downloads

 

Looks like a fun build. There's some stuff I'd move around, but I'm sure you get good mileage out of it.

 

1.) Is a 6 slotted proc base in howling twilight worth it on a 60s c/d? Would this be better suited in living shadows given this is going to be your base for containment and has a consistent uptime? As of now LS is set bonus slotted. It seems like these could be swapped. Similar thought on HoD as this is more of a spawn to spawn actual hard control, but a 30s recharge seems much more tenable for proc slotting than 60. HT is a great power, but I'd rather use that for control and -Regen is critical to keep up when you need it: YMMV.

 

2.) Soul absorption seems like a corner pick for utility, and PM is an awesome set, but this feels like a stretch for what you get. Are you getting good mileage here?

 

3.) Hover/Fly/EM -> preferential, but not a fan of flying in a set that requires as much positioning as dark/

 

4.) 6 slotted possess: took me a second, but you're using the 6th slot to get over the range softcap?

 

5.) Ice storm as your principal AoE attack feels lackluster. You get okay(ish) containment, but a 30s recharge hurts. You're already positioning cones, would Frozen Breath not be preferable?

 

 

I made a similar build with less focus on procs, but maintaining most of the feel. Agility in particular stings for proc rate. Attached build has a bit more in survivability at the sacrifice of proc/procrate. S/L/M defense softcap and S/L resist hard cap. More consistent AoE damage with fireball/fireblast. Fearsome stare and Shadow Field lose out a bit for control, but AoE holds are notoriously inconsistent and with stare coming up every 10s mobs will be plenty spooked.

 

 

 

 

Controller (Darkness Control - Darkness Affinity).mbd

[Argentae]

To update with some useful stats for those that don't have/haven't looked at it in Mids:

 

A proced out Dark/Dark/Ice Controller has (IMO) an amazing AOE chain. 

Single target isn't as good as say Mind/TA, but between a proced out Dark Grasp and Apoc 5 pack slotted Ice Blast, it's not too bad especially when you count in Haunt, Umbra Beast, and Dark Servant, which are certainly non-trivial, especially when most mobs have a -50 dmg resistance debuff applied.

 

1. Heart of Darkness (HoD) as slotted: 119% accuracy, 25' radius PBAOE,  Mids lvl 50 damage: 370 - on Tar Patch(*1.3) its's 481, 19.7 sec mag 3 stun, 3.5 ppm -20% damage resistance, -9 ToHit for 10 sec. Time to recharge: 30.51 seconds with nothing but global recharge.
2. Howling Twilight (HT) as slotted: Autohit. 15' radius mob targetted AOE, Mids lvl 50 damage: 334.2 - On Tar Patch(*1.3) it's 434.2 dmg if HoD -20 Res hit a given mob it's 501 dmg, 15.6 second mag 2 stun, 83% slow, 62.5% -recharge and -500% regen for 30 sec, 4.5 ppm Tohit debuff (-7.5), full team rez. Time to recharge: 61.02 seconds with nothing but global recharge. 

3. Ice Storm (IS) as slotted: 202.6% accuracy, 25' radius targeted AOE Mids lvl 50 damage: 280.9 (though it doesn't look like this accounts for the additional +50% base triggered by Containment) - on Tar Patch(*1.3) + HoD's additional 1.2 for the Fury of the Gladiator -Res Proc it's 421.5. IF Containment damage isn't being factored in in Mids it would be 280.9*1.5(Containment damage)*1.5 (1.3 Tar Patch + 1.2 HoD's -Res Proc for a total of 1.5) = 632 over 15 seconds 547.75 if HoD -Res didn't trigger on a given mob.

 

So balance probability is 1,614 damage on each mob the HoD -res proc triggered for (it's a 90 sec 25' radius AOE with no recharge slotted, so it procs well)
If the HoD -Res didn't trigger it's still 1,462.95 

 

I'm assuming Tar Patch in in place for all of the above, and the Containment damage in IS would be triggered because Living Shadows (LS) would set containment first. 
This is also ignoring any damage from LS because, well, it's kind of negligible as slotted. Also ignored is any Pet contributed damage (which is NOT negligible), and any incarnate effects other than the +dmg slotting from Musculature Alpha, all other incarnate slots are ignored.
Mids is set to Enemy Relative Level: Default.

 

It's obvious where the AOE punch comes from. 🙂

Will play with this more later and do some stats validation testing. 

[Argentae]

Great feedback! 🙂

 

 

3 hours ago, vibal said:

1.) Is a 6 slotted proc base in howling twilight worth it on a 60s c/d? Would this be better suited in living shadows given this is going to be your base for containment and has a consistent uptime? As of now LS is set bonus slotted. It seems like these could be swapped. Similar thought on HoD as this is more of a spawn to spawn actual hard control, but a 30s recharge seems much more tenable for proc slotting than 60. HT is a great power, but I'd rather use that for control and -Regen is critical to keep up when you need it: YMMV.

The FAST recharge of LS cripples the proc rate. On a slow recharge power like HoD, HT and IS the Proc rate is very high, the recharge time on AOE powers makes a huge difference in proc rates IIRC.
IMO LS is far better used as the containment setter and to hold the set bonuses from WotC.

The point about HT being useful for it's -Regen is very well taken though. If I were to optimize for A/V fights, I would absolutely do just that by building in 100% rech enh so it's up a lot closer to perma. Would still be a gap though, you could get it down to about 45 sec vs 60ish recharge, but it would be effectively twice as good at neutralizing AV or GM regen.  Important thing to identify! 🙂

3 hours ago, vibal said:

 

2.) Soul absorption seems like a corner pick for utility, and PM is an awesome set, but this feels like a stretch for what you get. Are you getting good mileage here?

You can certainly go with other sets, but this optimizes for high regen which is more useful than high recovery in the late game. You get plenty of that from a decent SA hit anyway, plus the 6 pack of Preventative Med gives you a 3.75 endurance discount AND 8.75 global rech, better than a LotG unique, plus not in conflict with 6.25% or 10% global recharge set bonuses

3 hours ago, vibal said:

 

3.) Hover/Fly/EM -> preferential, but not a fan of flying in a set that requires as much positioning as dark/

Hover with EM running may be faster than you are thinking of, AND it moves with precision in 3D and it doesn't suppress. It's the best positioning combo I have used. I use Fly as a -KB proc mule and obviously as a travel power. Afterburner with EM running gets you close to the flight cap 94ish I think? 🙂In some builds I put a stealth in Fly instead and use Fly to toggle it on and off as needed.

3 hours ago, vibal said:

 

4.) 6 slotted possess: took me a second, but you're using the 6th slot to get over the range softcap?

Yup. 🙂I could go even further over the ranged Def cap if I moved the 6th WotC into LS, but having th WotC dmg proc only adds about 19ish to the dmg of LS, it's much more impactful in the single target hold.

3 hours ago, vibal said:

 

5.) Ice storm as your principal AoE attack feels lackluster. You get okay(ish) containment, but a 30s recharge hurts. You're already positioning cones, would Frozen Breath not be preferable?

Check the math on the damage from IS that I walk through in the post above, it's surprising.

The thing to keep in mind here, is that after you have gone through the whole chain of Darkest Night corner pull into Tar Patch -> Fearsome Stare -> fast Hover into spawn center ->HoD -> HT ->Fast Hover back (or up on open maps, which is super easy for opening up a cone's affect) -> LS -> IS combo, there isn't much left but mopping up and a good SA hit off all the dead bodies. 😛

3 hours ago, vibal said:

 

 

 

 

 

Controller (Darkness Control - Darkness Affinity).mbd 42.53 kB · 0 downloads

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Argentae

[vibal]

Nice. I don't doubt you see proc #'s on your AoE's. HT in particular is still on a 60s recharge I suspect you'd see more procs over 60s in the immob.

 

>shrug< fun is fun though.

[Argentae]

Really great conversation, only in the Controller forum would you get such a good compare and contrast.

 
I really appreciate the feedback and viewpoint. Might be worth trying it both ways to see how it plays, the different builds have a lot of similarities, and hopefully we're giving the OP some great ideas! 🙂

 

I think you're right that you CAN get similar numbers out of a proced out LS, as the formula is intended to achieve a PPM value after all.

You would need to spam LS constantly though. By bunching it up into high proc rate slow recharge AOEs it takes less animation time and end cost overall. I suspect running through the above is faster to get the same dmg output while also accomplishing a lot more damage mitigation faster, basically by taking things you are doing anyway and making them hit like a Mack truck. I think one of the differences is that your focus (which is absolutely a traditional and time tested Controller mitigation path) provides much stronger Stun/status effect mitigation duration, while mine relies more on massive -ToHit combined with high def and focuses on doing as much AOE damage as fast as possible to take out the small fry so I can get to single hard target take down sooner. 

 

Looking at the way you have LS slotted, Mids is estimating 54.69 or 71 on Tar Patch with a recharge of 2.45 seconds and 1.67 animation, so call it 4 sec total cast to cast. you can get about 15 casts in 60 seconds, which would be something like 1065 if you cast LS every time it's up over 60 seconds. I've never played around with Energy Font though, and I highly doubt Mids is factoring that in.

 

How does Energy Font work out in practice? I've always been a bit curious about it...

 

If I maximize LS dmg, Mids gives LS with 6 dmg procs in it (including the WotC, so the single target damage chain would be worse) a damage of 104.2, on Tar Patch that would be 135ish.  If I pull the WotC proc it drops to 116 on Tar Patch, though you can offset that a bit with the Annihilation -res in LS in place of the WotC it's only -12 res and will proc sporadically so you don't get the benefit as much as a high proc rate 20% -res at the beginning. Looking at the 135 you would have to spam it ummm... 10-12 times to get similar damage to HoD + HT + IS? Something like that, depending on the # of mobs hit by the HoD -20 Res. That would mean something like 17-20 seconds of LS animation time with about 3 seconds recharge. Doable like you said.

 

With no endred slotted that's going to drain your blue bar pretty quickly and would take something like 45-50 seconds. If you stayed at range the whole time and you have 4 more slots dedicated to End recovery than I do so staying completely at range works better on your build. If I hit about 3 targets with SA I get about the same amount of recovery you get from Miracle + Numina + 2 more endmod in Stamina. If I use my usual rule of thumb of 6 targets, as slotted SA gets me about +106% recovery + 25% for stock stamina. You get the something like 75-80% all the time which is helpful, mine drops to 25% outside of SA. We're both getting Panacea (probably the single best enh in the game, especially from early levels) so that's a wash. The primary difference with SA is the Regen. As slotted with a 6 mob hit I get about +400% Regen. I love SA. 

As you said I think a lot comes down to playstyle. I'm generally focusing on the single hard targets (bosses etc.) once I get through the AOE chain, so getting all that AOE dmg kind of frontloaded frees up attention for other things. 

Great conversation!  I really appreciate the feedback and viewpoint. Might be worth trying it both ways to see how it plays. 

I still like HoD at the start with the -20 Res, but might be worth putting LS in earlier and getting IS in before HT, since HoD is back in mini nuke form in ~30 and the same for IS they would probably come back around before the end of the spawn if you are soloing at 4/8. 

I hope to do some playtesting of the build this evening so I'll be able to update with some reality check. :: rubbing hands ::
Not everything that looks good in Mids pans out in actual play.

[Argentae]

Reality check. 

Fun. 🙂
 

Hover + Evasive Maneuvers is 37+ mph, doesn't suppress, and great positioning control as expected.

 

The sequence as designed works very well, and it scales amazingly well with large spawn sizes. I was running largely a CoT mission that has a couple of ambushes that clump up at the exit, so that's two +4X8 spawns stacked together, so 6 bosses and a crap load of Lt's and minions. The basic pattern of verify that Umbral and Dark Servant are good to go then Fade -> Darkest Night -> FS -> LS -> Fast Hover into center of spawn Tar Patch -> SA -> HoD -> HT -> IS -> Back up -> Fearsome Stare -> LS -> Haunt on Boss  and switch to largely single target using AOE when it's back up works at least as well on double spawn as it does on single. The HUGE +regen makes you and your pets nearly unkillable because everything you are fighting has like an 8.5% chance to hit you. Pop a purple and you cut that down to 5% which is a LOT less likely than even 8.5%. The heals and -ToHit from Dark Servant and Umbral make a big difference.
 

I'll keep looking at the build, and I appreciate any feedback, but it's got a pretty fast clear rate and survivability is excellent on +4 X8. 
I didn't test against Dark Astoria Incarnate missions tonight, but pretty sure it will be a romp there too.  To be fair, this is a largely tier 3 incranate build, not a new lvl 50, but the basics are performing exactly as expected.  The sequence matters a lot. The 20% -Res really does make itself known. And Darkest Night + Fearsome Stare as slotted followed by Living Shadows Fast hover in and Soul Absorption is an excellent and reliable alpha strike.

[Darkneblade]

This is what i use after spending pretty much dozen respecs, It is pretty balanced, almost capped ranged defenses (not that you need it since -to hit pretty much does some thing) but it can be great for taking alpha strikes early on. Perma Hasten, Decent single target damage on Arcane Bolt. Almost being unkillable with perma soul absorption.

Controller - Darkness Control - Darkness Affinity.mxd

[tidge]

I'm not trying to make suggestions on other posted builds, just my thoughts.

 

I feel qualified to discuss the secondary. The primary is one I would almost certainly go heavy into %damage. My experience with Controllers that have Cones and AoE can solo a LOT of content with larger spawn sizes (although perhaps not solo at +4x8!) which takes a lot of the sting out of being slow to gain XP at lower levels.

 

Here is how I slot Howling Twilight:

 (A) Bombardment - Chance of Damage (Fire)
 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal)
 (*) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge: Level 50+5
 (*) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge: Level 50+5
 (*) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50+5
 (*) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance: Level 50+5

 

This is the compromise made to allow it to be used as a 'nuke' for low level content. Note that the Accuracy is slotted to assist with the %damage, since %damage requires a ToHit check (even on 'autohit' powers). The final Ragnarok piece was chosen to keep the Endurance cost under control and for the Recovery bonus. While leveling, I would pretty much only slot this power for recharge and not try to get too clever with it until you have the slots.

 

I use Shadow Fall as a mule power, plus as a place for the +ToHit Kismet piece (because it is almost always toggled on)... as these types of Dark characters usually lean into %damage:

 (A) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
 (*) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance: Level 50+5
 (*) Kismet - Accuracy +6%
 (*) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
 (*) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
 (*) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

 

While leveling: use Shadow Fall to hold whatever Globals you need (i.e. Gladiator's Armor) I've just included a typical 'final slotting' that I use.

 

Tar Patch is just 2xIO Recharge (boosted). I know there are other options, its just that I think that those are generally inferior uses of enhancement slots.

 

Somewhat similarly, I tend to minimize Twilight Grasp:

 (A) Theft of Essence - Chance for +Endurance
 (*) Touch of the Nictus - Chance for Negative Energy Damage
 (*) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing
 (*) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge

 

Twilight Grasp isn't a particularly good %proc power (compared to other powers you will have available), but the %+End will probably be important while leveling. The slotting I have shown would be used for leveling, and only in a final build if I didn't have a better use for the Theft of Essence slot. I see that slot as a sort of Quality-of-Life choice.

 

I have found that Dark Servant doesn't need any clever slotting. This set doesn't offer the largest possible pet boosts, but it is the best set choice IMO.

 (A) Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Energy Damage
 (*) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/ToHitDebuff
 (*) Cloud Senses - ToHit Debuff
 (*) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Recharge

 

Hot takes on the primary choices:

 

In choosing between T1 Dark Grasp and T2 Shadowy Binds, I could go either way. I don't think I'd rely on either for %damage (that is what the AoE are for!) so I am thinking minimal slotting (Acc/Mez) for the single-target Hold to be used for trying to stack control on harder targets. I could be persuaded to go with the ST Immobilize for the same reason, depending on what types of enemies give me the most grief (those that resist immobilize, or those that resist hold).

 

T3 Living Shadows would have some sort of %damage slotting. The 8-sec recharge time on the AoE isn't great, so I'd balance it against the rest of what I am doing with the rest of the build.

 

T4 Posses: I like 6x Coercive Persuasion, but I don't know if I would lean into the single-target Confuse with this Primary/Secondary.

 

T5 Fearsome Stare would either get 4xCloud Senses + Glimpse of the Abyss, or possibly some ATO slotting. I'd have to do some true building to see.

 

T6 Heart of Darkness is another obvious %damage candidate.

 

T7 Haunts: Lots of options here. I probably wouldn't go crazy with %procs (possibly Soulbound Allegiance %Build Up) but I would have to test. I feel like I'd want them debuffing as much as I want them doing damage.

 

T8 Shadow Field: Likely to be slotted to be a %damage nuke with some control, so maybe 3x Gladiator's Net if not going 5xUnbreakable Guard. I have found the Entomb Recharge/%Absorb to be a good piece for this type of power.

 

T9 Umbra Beast; I have never played a character that had this guy! With a couple of -ToHit attacks, I'd consider a %damage from Cloud Senses, but as a practical matter I think I'd want this guy doing damage before all else.

 

 

 

 

 

[Wimbochismo]

21 hours ago, Argentae said:

Yup. 🙂I could go even further over the ranged Def cap if I moved the 6th WotC into LS, but having th WotC dmg proc only adds about 19ish to the dmg of LS, it's much more impactful in the single target hold.

 

Your build looks great, there aren't too many suggestions to make. I just wanted to point out something people usually overlook with the WotC/OP procs. They actually enhance recharge as well, so putting it in an 8s recharge power will lower your proc chances, even if it's still pretty solid at 5PPM.

 

48 minutes ago, tidge said:

T7 Haunts: Lots of options here. I probably wouldn't go crazy with %procs (possibly Soulbound Allegiance %Build Up) but I would have to test. I feel like I'd want them debuffing as much as I want them doing damage.

 

I was playing my fresh 50 Dark/Psi Dom last night and noticed some interesting things with Haunt. Broken down they do: a single target fear at 6s recharge, and a single target punch at 46 dmg base, .83s cast time, 3s recharge with -7.5 tohit. I'm not sure if pet proc chances are effected by the recharge of the pets power. If they are, Haunt doesn't seem like a good candidate for procs.

 

Because there's two of them, they're actually pretty good dmg even with flat dmg enhancements. For Controller's this is a noticeable bump.

 

What I found interesting is that they can be double stacked. We had good recharge/survivability on the team so I occasionally found I had 4 following me around. Jumping into MIDS, my build is 1s off perma Hasten. Maxing Haunt's recharge I could get it to 56s recharge with 60s duration. On a more intense recharge build, with Haunt slotted for recharge I could imagine getting it to around ~54s recharge.

[Argentae]

Lots of great info here! 

 

I absolutely did not know that dmg procs have a separate tohit check even if they are in an autohit power.
Very interesting...
I'll probably need to spend some time looking at that. Thanks for the heads up!

I did note the Recharge affect in the WotC and OP procs, but it's 23.2 which is barely over the 20% threshold where it starts to affect the proc rate IIRC? I haven't really seen much of a negative impact on the dmg proc rates on the ST hold in my other controller builds, but it's a good point!

One of the benefits Controllers have is the inherent acc of the ST hold that makes it quite accurate with as many dmg procs as you can slot in them, at least once you start racking up the global +Acc in Purple sets. With a full compliment of dmg procs they hit quite hard, and IMO it helps a lot with the late game single target damage. 🙂

[tidge]

17 hours ago, Argentae said:

Lots of great info here! 

 

I absolutely did not know that dmg procs have a separate tohit check even if they are in an autohit power.
Very interesting...
I'll probably need to spend some time looking at that. Thanks for the heads up!

 

This is something that is generally pretty easy to test with unslotters. I suggest finding large spawns of even-con enemies (you may want to "flashback" and go to a hazard zone, or for level 50s can use the Abandoned Sewer Network). You may have to set up a tab to also monitor 'pet combat' depending on the power being tested. You don't want to face low-level spawns because the ToHit formula is heavily weighted in the players favor when mobiles are outclassed!

 

As near as I can tell: There are a very small number of 'attack' powers (i.e. powers that require a target be picked before clicking, and damage is applied to that target) that can take %damage pieces and also cannot take (common IO) Accuracy slotting... and I haven't been able to observe that Accuracy (via a slottable set, as opposed to a common yellow IO) makes any difference on %damage from them... those powers seem to only apply the %proc chance independent of ToHit.

 

As far as %proc rates and (slotted) Recharge on attacks, I have three general categories:

• Inherent recharge rates faster than 12 seconds: If there is a %proc, it is only because it is part of a set I am using anyway.
• Inherent recharge rates equal to or slower than 90 seconds: I don't sweat adding any recharge to those powers.
• Everything else: gets a case-by-case examination. Shorter recharge powers (~16 sec) I try not to have too much slotted recharge, a 60-second recharge power can tolerate more slotted recharge.

I used to crunch the %proc rates for every power (single-target, AoE), but I don't do this any more unless something seems 'off'.

[tidge]

I played a Dark/Dark Controller to 50+, so I thought I'd circle back. The build will be posted when I have a chance to format it as text.

 

On 12/30/2023 at 11:53 AM, Wimbochismo said:

I was playing my fresh 50 Dark/Psi Dom last night and noticed some interesting things with Haunt. Broken down they do: a single target fear at 6s recharge, and a single target punch at 46 dmg base, .83s cast time, 3s recharge with -7.5 tohit. I'm not sure if pet proc chances are effected by the recharge of the pets power. If they are, Haunt doesn't seem like a good candidate for procs.

 

Because there's two of them, they're actually pretty good dmg even with flat dmg enhancements. For Controller's this is a noticeable bump.

 

What I found interesting is that they can be double stacked. We had good recharge/survivability on the team so I occasionally found I had 4 following me around. Jumping into MIDS, my build is 1s off perma Hasten. Maxing Haunt's recharge I could get it to 56s recharge with 60s duration. On a more intense recharge build, with Haunt slotted for recharge I could imagine getting it to around ~54s recharge.

 

I don't have 'perma' Haunts in my build; there is something like a 12 sec downtime. I slotted the Haunts with:

• Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Recharge
• Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• Expedient Reinforcement: Endurance/Damage/Recharge
• Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage
• Soulbound Allegiance:  Accuracy/Recharge (50+5)
• Soulbound Allegiance: %BuildUp

They do reliably get the %BuildUp. I didn't think it was worth trying to add a %damage power to them.

 

My build will have the Umbra Beast, Dark Servant and Haunt out at most times... but I haven't yet bothered with trying to improve the pet defenses/resistances. Partially this is because I do have Hami-Os and %damage in the Beast and Servant (to improve what they already do), partially this is because of the typical AI positioning of the pets and my PBAoE team powers. I don't usually solo +4 with this character, so I haven't been motivated to improve the defenses/resistances. If I was so motivated, I might consider using Haunt as the mule power for those pieces, but I find with the above slotting I get a reasonable amount of offense from the two pets.

[tidge]

This is my level 50 build (I think, I am often tweaking)

 

Spoiler

Level 50 Magic Controller

 

Primary Power Set: Darkness Control

Secondary Power Set: Darkness Affinity

Power Pool: Sorcery

Power Pool: Concealment

Power Pool: Leaping

Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

 

------------

Level 1:                 Dark Grasp         

 (A) Superior Overpowering Presence - Accuracy/Hold

 (*) Superior Overpowering Presence - Accuracy/Hold/ Endurance

 (*) Gladiator's Javelin - Chance of Damage (Toxic)

 (*) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage (Negative)

 (*) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance of Damage (Smashing)

 

 

Level 1:                 Tar Patch            

 (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50+5

 (*) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50+5

 

 

Level 2:                 Living Shadows

 (A) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Endurance

 (*) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage (Energy)

 (*) Trap of the Hunter - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 

 

Level 4:                 Mystic Flight      

 (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)

 (*) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance

 (*) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range

 

 

Level 6:                 Arcane Bolt        

 (A) Apocalypse - Damage: Level 50+5

 (*) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance: Level 50+5

 

 

Level 8:                 Fearsome Stare               

 (A) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/ToHitDebuff

 (*) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Recharge

 (*) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge

 (*) Cloud Senses - Chance of Damage (Negative)

 (*) Glimpse of the Abyss - Chance of Damage (Psionic)

 

 

Level 10:              Howling Twilight              

 (A) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance: Level 50+5

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Bombardment - Chance of Damage (Fire)

 

 

Level 12:              Heart of Darkness           

 (A) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage: Level 50

 (*) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Eradication - Chance ot Damage (Energy)

 (*) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Obliteration - Chance of Damage (Smashing)

 

 

Level 14:              Twilight Grasp  

 (A) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing

 (*) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge:

 (*) Touch of the Nictus - Chance of Damage (%Negative)

 

 

Level 16:              Shadow Fall       

 (A) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

 (*) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance: Level 50+5

 (*) Kismet - Accuracy +6%

 (*) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

 (*) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

 

 

Level 18:              Haunt   

 (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge

 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge

 (*) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage

 (*) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up: Level 50

 

 

Level 20:              Fade     

 (A) Reactive Defenses - Defense

(*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime

 (*) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage

 

 

Level 22:              Shadow Field    

 (A) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Hold

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Hold/Recharge

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Endurance/Recharge

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy Hold/Endurance

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy Hold/Endurance/Recharge

 (*) Superior Will of the Controller - Recharge/Chance for Psionic Damage

 

 

Level 24:              Rune of Protection         

 (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)

 

 

Level 26:              Umbra Beast     

 (A) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage/Endurance: Level 50+5

 (*) Overwhelming Force - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

 (*) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown

 (*) Hami-O Lysosome (Accuracy/-Defense/-ToHit): Level 53

 (*) Cloud Senses - Chance of Damage (Negative)

 

 

Level 28:              Darkest Night   

 (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50+5

 

 

Level 30:              Dark Servant     

 (A) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/ToHitDebuff

 (*) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30

 (*) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge

 (*) Cloud Senses - Chance of Damage (Negative)

 (*) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Hami-O Endoplasm (Accuracy/Mezz): Level 53

 

 

Level 32:              Soul Absorption               

 (A) D-Sync Conduit (Endurance Mod/Recharge): Level 53

 (*) D-Sync Reconstruction (Heal/Recharge): Level 53

 

 

Level 35:              Dark Embrace   

 (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge

 (*) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP

 

 

Level 38:              Spirit Ward         

 (A) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb

 

 

Level 41:              Combat Jumping             

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

 

 

Level 44:              Infiltration          

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

 

 

Level 47:              Stealth 

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

 

 

Level 49:              Grant Invisibility              

 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

 

 

Level 1: Sprint   

 (A) Unbounded Leap - Stealth

 

Level 2: Rest      

 (A) Interrupt IO: Level 50

               

Level 2: Swift     

 (A) Run Speed IO: Level 50+5

 

Level 2: Hurdle 

 (A) Jumping IO: Level 50+5

 

Level 2: Health  

 (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance

 (*) Miracle - +Recovery

 

Level 2: Stamina               

 (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End

 (*) Performance Shifter - EndMod

 

 

Some comments on my thinking...

 

Powers and Slots are front-loaded... and there is little reliance on powers above level 35. I like to have characters that scale across all levels of play, which means having powers to cast with (if possible) no gaps in "attacks" at any level... and I like to have the obvious "signature" AT powers available in as much content as possible.

 

The build doesn't include Hasten. I have a general allergy to including Hasten, since enhancement sets can add quite a bit of Global Recharge without it. It is not lost on my that many of the Dark/Dark/Soul Controller's "signature moves" have such inherently long cast times that Hasten is practically a no-brainer. Consider this build an attempt to do a lot without that sort of brain!

 

The set bonuses that appear are my preference, and I don't expect that the choices made will appeal to everyone. I'm generally looking for Global recharge, Accuracy and Endurance management (Discounts, MaxEnd, Recovery) when possible.

 

Chasing %damage was a choice. I like to solo oddball content, so almost every power tries to leverage %damage... the inherently fast recharge powers is where I tried to use "more effective" %damage (higher PPM and/or higher base damage). %damage in pets is not always a good choice, but the ones I made seem to be paying off.

 

My choices to have powers that do damage to have a more effective solo build have come at a cost: This character has sacrificed control (durations) for damage... and the placement of slots have made some of the more team-friendly powers less effective to different degrees (Twilight Grasp, Soul Absorption, Shadow Fall, Fade). The Pet slotting is intended to help cover that gap. I probably should invest in a second build that is more "team friendly", when personal damage is less important. When I figure that out, I will post it. My immediate thoughts:

Spoiler

Drop Arcane Bolt. Add Hasten (at a higher level)

Rework Fade slotting to emphasize Recharge and also add some Resistance to it.

Emphasize the single target Hold of Dark Grasp

Slot Living Shadows for Immobilize, possibly pulling slots

more slots in Twilight Grasp (more recharge and healing).

Pull %damage from Howling Twilight

Consider adding Maneuvers (with slots) to the build

 

[Story Archer]

x

 

Edited April 21 by Story Archer

[Two5boy]

I remember on another thread someone mentioned even though Howling Twilight is autohit the Procs needs “to hit” check so accuracy is needed. Not sure if you had issues with not slotting accuracy 

[Story Archer]

46 minutes ago, Two5boy said:

I remember on another thread someone mentioned even though Howling Twilight is autohit the Procs needs “to hit” check so accuracy is needed. Not sure if you had issues with not slotting accuracy 

 

With Global Accuracy bonuses and Tactics, I haven't had any problems - I'm usually looking at +2's or +3's and if it's anything higher than that, I'm usually getting buffs from teammates anyway. 

[tidge]

Here are my rough estimates of inherent (i.e. no Recharge slotting) %proc chances for the Dark/Dark powers, based on a 3.5 PPM %proc.

 

Darkness Control (primary)

 

T1 Dark Grasp: 70%

T2 Shadowy Binds: 38%

T3 Living Shadows: 25%

T4 Posses: 75%

T5 Fearsome Stare: 90% (ceiling)

T6 Heart of Darkness; 90% (ceiling)

T8 Shadow Field is a pseudopet, so I'm passing... like some pseudopets, it appears to have a decent chance to trigger a %proc on cast, but generally I find these to be unreliable for %damage.

 

Darkness Affinity (secondary)

 

T1 Tar Patch: another pseudo pet. The real advantage of Tar Patch is the -resistance, so I pretty much only slot for Recharge.

T2 Twilight Grasp: 75%

T3 Darkest Night: this is a toggle, don't bother with %proc

T4 Howling Twilight: 90% (ceiling)

T7 Soul Absorption: 90% (ceiling)

 

In my own build, the "weakest" power is Living Shadows. It is a bit of an inherent Endurance hog, and its fast recharge times sink the %damage chances. I have 3 slots in it dedicated to %damage (one of them is a PVP, so higher base damage than non-PVP/non-Purple) and I still feel like those slots are wasted... even when facing x8 spawns. A reminder of my current slotting:

 

Level 2:                 Living Shadows

 (A) Trap of the Hunter - Accuracy/Endurance

 (*) Superior Frozen Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage (Energy)

 (*) Trap of the Hunter - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 

The main reason I keep Living Shadows in my build is for the -Knockback to all targets, as a lot of the powers I use on this character are location based. Immobilizing enemies is a nice side effect, sometimes it matters often it does not. The one change I might make to this slotting is to replace the Trap of the Hunter Accuracy/Endurance piece with a D-Sync Guidance (Accuracy/Range). I'd lose the enhancement set bonus for Immobilization, but the inherent Immob time is already pretty long. The Endurance cost per cast would go up by almost 2, but adding range to the cone is a pretty useful swap in my experience.

[OKDAD85]

Would anyone have a leveling build with cheap/starter enhancements slapped on it?

[tidge]

For leveling builds, having a 'sugar daddy' (or SG base storage) can help newer toons with ATOs, Winters, and level 10/attuned PVP pieces (Panacea's global for instance). P2W offers several different %proc enhancements at no cost which eventually expire, but can help early with damage.

 

All of my "level 50" Richy Rich builds, while leveling, use IOs or leftover attuned PVP pieces where I have Hami-Os or Purples.

 

My general advice is to slot first Accuracy and Endurance. The actual effects are hard to notice at low levels, but by level 20 you should be able to see net benefits.

 

Investing in a Kismet +ToHit piece in an always-on power (even if it is a toggle) really helps.

 

Cheaper sets like Annihilation don't need many pieces to offer tangible benefits.

[Story Archer]

Just tossing this out there for those looking for a Dark/Dark build, it's working really well for me so far:

 

Mistress of Chains.mbd

 

Hasten, Fade and Soul Absorption are all about 5 seconds off from perma - note: I really wish Fade and SA were on the same timer so that they could consistently be applied together.

 

Defenses are crazy strong. With Fade you're soft-capped at all positional defenses as well as over the soft-cap on S/L/E damage resistance. Even without Fade, you're STILL over 30% on positional defenses and soft-capped on S/L/E resistance... add that in with Darkest Night and you don't even really need Fade, though your pets and your teammates will thank you for it.

 

Heart of Darkness makes for a great mini-nuke/mez, up every 35 seconds or so.

 

With only about 2.5 purple sets worth of IO's, it's also a very cheap build in the end-game.

 

 

Edited February 16 by Story Archer

[Nemu]

Someone on Excelsior asked me in game about Dark Dark.

 

Here are the criteria he listed:
Solo Friendly

Exemp Friendly

Budget build < 500mil

Flight pool, fight pool, speed pool

The build needs to elicit feelings of "Wow I pulled that off"

 

It's a tall ask. Dark/Dark works better at range. It's not one of the more damaging combos which makes it more tedious to solo with. Temper your expectations, you are not going to be plowing through x8 mobs with this combo at lower levels.  The ST immob is taken here to aid with soloing. The low level playstyle is going to be very single target focused.

 

This is a cheapish build with only a few expensive pieces. The goal is softcap range defense and then as much recharge as I can cram. I also built up some respectable psi defense along the way.

 

The upgrade would look drastically different than this cheap build, it would include a lot more slow resist. If it were up to me I'd ditch the entire flight pool and grab combat jumping instead for guaranteed immob protection. If I need to fly, there's temp flight packs for that. I'd also make sure I'm at 95% chance to hit against +4s, With the higher values that purples and ATOs provide there's a reasonable chance that the build can also hit perma-hasten and AoE softcap as well.

 

Budget Friendly D/D/D - Hero Controller
Build plan made with Mids' Reborn v3.6.6 rev. 3
──────────────────────────────

• Primary powerset: Darkness Control
• Secondary powerset: Darkness Affinity
• Pool powerset (#1): Flight
• Pool powerset (#2): Speed
• Pool powerset (#3): Fighting
• Pool powerset (#4): Leadership
• Epic powerset: Dark Mastery

──────────────────────────────

Powers taken:

Level 1: Dark Grasp

• A: Basilisk's Gaze: Accuracy/Hold
• 3: Basilisk's Gaze: Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
• 3: Thunderstrike: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 5: Neuronic Shutdown: Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• 27: Ghost Widow's Embrace: Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• 45: Cloud Senses: Chance for Negative Energy Damage

Level 1: Twilight Grasp

• A: Touch of the Nictus: Healing/Absorb
• 5: Touch of the Nictus: Accuracy/Healing/Absorb
• 33: Touch of the Nictus: Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
• 34: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime
• 48: Preventive Medicine: Chance for +Absorb

Level 2: Shadowy Binds

• A: Invention: Accuracy

Level 4: Fly

• A: Blessing of the Zephyr: Knockback Reduction (4 points)
• 43: Winter's Gift: Slow Resistance (20%)

Level 6: Possess

• A: Malaise's Illusions: Accuracy/Recharge
• 7: Malaise's Illusions: Endurance/Confused
• 7: Malaise's Illusions: Accuracy/Endurance
• 9: Malaise's Illusions: Confused/Range
• 9: Malaise's Illusions: Accuracy/Confused/Recharge

Level 8: Fearsome Stare

• A: Glimpse of the Abyss: Accuracy/Recharge
• 11: Glimpse of the Abyss: Endurance/Fear
• 13: Glimpse of the Abyss: Accuracy/Endurance
• 13: Glimpse of the Abyss: Fear/Range
• 15: Glimpse of the Abyss: Accuracy/Fear/Recharge

Level 10: Hover

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 11: Shield Wall: +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
• 29: Kismet: Accuracy +6%

Level 12: Tar Patch

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 14: Hasten

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 47: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 16: Shadow Fall

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 17: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance
• 17: Luck of the Gambler: Defense
• 19: Impervium Armor: Resistance/Endurance
• 39: Impervium Armor: Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
• 39: Impervium Armor: Resistance

Level 18: Haunt

• A: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Recharge
• 42: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage
• 48: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• 49: Expedient Reinforcement: Damage/Endurance

Level 20: Fade

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 21: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Recharge
• 21: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Endurance/Recharge
• 23: Impervium Armor: Endurance/Recharge
• 23: Impervium Armor: Resistance/Recharge
• 29: Impervium Armor: Resistance/Endurance/Recharge

Level 22: Kick

• (Empty)

Level 24: Soul Absorption

• A: Preemptive Optimization: Accuracy/Recharge
• 25: Preemptive Optimization: EndMod/Endurance
• 25: Preemptive Optimization: EndMod/Recharge
• 27: Preemptive Optimization: EndMod/Accuracy/Endurance
• 36: Preemptive Optimization: EndMod/Accuracy/Recharge
• 42: Preemptive Optimization: EndMod/Endurance/Recharge

Level 26: Umbra Beast

• A: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Recharge
• 33: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage
• 33: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• 34: Expedient Reinforcement: Endurance/Damage/Recharge
• 43: Expedient Reinforcement: Damage/Endurance
• 43: Expedient Reinforcement: Resist Bonus Aura for Pets

Level 28: Tough

• A: Gladiator's Armor: TP Protection +3% Def (All)
• 40: Impervium Armor: Resistance/Endurance
• 40: Impervium Armor: Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
• 40: Impervium Armor: Resistance

Level 30: Weave

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 31: Reactive Defenses: Defense
• 31: Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance
• 31: Reactive Defenses: Scaling Resist Damage

Level 32: Dark Servant

• A: Cloud Senses: Accuracy/ToHitDebuff
• 34: Cloud Senses: Accuracy/Recharge
• 36: Cloud Senses: Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
• 36: Cloud Senses: ToHit Debuff/Endurance/Recharge

Level 35: Murky Cloud

• A: Steadfast Protection: Resistance/+Def 3%
• 37: Impervium Armor: Resistance/Endurance
• 37: Impervium Armor: Resistance
• 37: Unbreakable Guard: +Max HP
• 39: Impervium Armor: Psionic Resistance

Level 38: Darkest Night

• A: Invention: Endurance Reduction

Level 41: Howling Twilight

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 44: Umbral Torrent

• A: Artillery: Accuracy/Damage
• 45: Artillery: Damage/Endurance
• 46: Artillery: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• 46: Sudden Acceleration: Knockback to Knockdown
• 47: Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge

Level 47: Shadow Field

• A: Basilisk's Gaze: Accuracy/Hold
• 49: Basilisk's Gaze: Accuracy/Recharge
• 50: Basilisk's Gaze: Recharge/Hold
• 50: Basilisk's Gaze: Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold

Level 49: Evasive Maneuvers

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

──────────────────────────────

Inherents:

Level 1: Brawl

• (Empty)

Level 1: Containment

Level 1: Sprint

• A: Unbounded Leap: +Stealth

Level 2: Rest

• (Empty)

Level 1: Swift

• A: Invention: Flight Speed

Level 1: Health

• A: Panacea: +Hit Points/Endurance
• 15: Numina's Convalesence: +Regeneration/+Recovery
• 45: Miracle: +Recovery

Level 1: Hurdle

• A: Invention: Jumping

Level 1: Stamina

• A: Performance Shifter: Chance for +End
• 48: Performance Shifter: EndMod

Level 4: Afterburner

 

 

 

Edited March 31 by Nemu