Illusion/Dark Thoughts

[Renatos1023]

On live, my go-to ATs were either a Controller or Defender. However, from Live to Homecoming (congrats on the new agreement with NCSoft!) I have found it hard to make Controllers useful in late game levels. On live, a 'troller was always welcome. Goodness knows I miss my Fire/Kin farming days. A good Controller on Live could wholly change a team and was actually sought. Late game today, while a controller is always welcome on my teams, I have a hard time finding value in their primaries. (I wish I could say otherwise, as on live a good Controller was always wanted, but HC and IOs make Control almost irrelevant -- but that is an argument for another day). 

 

Since (in my opinion) Controllers are not well equipped for late game, I figured I'd make the least "Controllery" Controller. So, I went with Illusion (a set I also never really played on live due to its...as you guessed...lack of hard control). I decided that the new Dark secondary would be a perfect pairing.

 

I have to say, I have not been disappointed. Early game was slow, I will admit that, but Illusion and Dark both shine late game -- especially with a focus on recharge. In my opinion, Illusion is less "control" and more "diversion." Especially late game with high recharge. I am not at perma-PA (yet), but I am getting close...it is a very different kind of 'control.' And I like it. I almost feel like an MM with 6 pets active. I never thought I'd like Illusion, because it wasn't fun on Live (IMO) and I wish the Controller version would get the Stun that the Dominator version gets (group invisibility is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine -- please replace it). But I just wanted to share and get thoughts on this combo.

 

I took Hasten and went with the Psy Mastery pool (I thought Indomitable Will could be activated while stunned....but surprise...it can't. So, I may respec at some point). Ill/Dark is a very solid support set, as long as you focus on recharge. You may be a Controller (and I did take the AoE hold) but you are a lot stronger as an aggro-mitigator with PA. 

[Without_Pause]

An Ill/dark at end game on a team of 8 is someone with an audience of 7.

[Story Archer]

16 hours ago, Renatos1023 said:

On live, my go-to ATs were either a Controller or Defender. However, from Live to Homecoming (congrats on the new agreement with NCSoft!) I have found it hard to make Controllers useful in late game levels. On live, a 'troller was always welcome. Goodness knows I miss my Fire/Kin farming days. A good Controller on Live could wholly change a team and was actually sought. Late game today, while a controller is always welcome on my teams, I have a hard time finding value in their primaries. (I wish I could say otherwise, as on live a good Controller was always wanted, but HC and IOs make Control almost irrelevant -- but that is an argument for another day). 

 

I struggled with something similar - it seems like the late game today is basically Tankers and Blasters. Scrappers can be an option if you want to freelance or tend to solo a lot (though Tankers are often still better options for that), while Defenders and Controllers are often relegated to 'tagalong' roles - they can help speed things up, sure, but they certainly aren't needed.  My solution was to lean into Kinetics with my Controller in the late game (always welcome on any team) and choosing Plant for the early game since you get Seeds at 8th level and its so ridiculously effective throughout the life of the character.

 

I was on the fence between that and Illusion/Storm, but I'm a bigger fan of /Dark so it's good to hear some positive experiences with it.

[Renatos1023]

On 1/5/2024 at 1:17 AM, Without_Pause said:

An Ill/dark at end game on a team of 8 is someone with an audience of 7.

This is kind of what I'm starting to see -- and I love it. I hit 42 tonight, and all my pets are coming together, along with my recharge and defense. I am thoroughly enjoying not being a hard-control Controller. I don't think anyone does (or should) expect that from an Illusion troller. But being able to alternate between PA and Spectral Terror on openings is very useful. On live, hard-control lockdown was what was wanted (and needed). Heck, I have a 50+ Earth/Storm troller on HC that can lockdown 4 mobs at once, but that level of control isn't really ever needed anymore (sadly). I do think this combo is very solid and definitely recommend it. I cannot wait to hit 50 and get my numbers where they need to be!

 

On 1/5/2024 at 5:05 PM, Story Archer said:

 

I struggled with something similar - it seems like the late game today is basically Tankers and Blasters. Scrappers can be an option if you want to freelance or tend to solo a lot (though Tankers are often still better options for that), while Defenders and Controllers are often relegated to 'tagalong' roles - they can help speed things up, sure, but they certainly aren't needed.  My solution was to lean into Kinetics with my Controller in the late game (always welcome on any team) and choosing Plant for the early game since you get Seeds at 8th level and its so ridiculously effective throughout the life of the character.

 

I was on the fence between that and Illusion/Storm, but I'm a bigger fan of /Dark so it's good to hear some positive experiences with it.

See, my experience is a bit different. I always want a Tank on my team (as you said), but I also much prefer to be a Defender (and have them on my team) than almost any other AT. While Tanks are the OP of melee, I think Defender are the OP of Buff/Debuff. All of my mains are Defenders (so I am admittedly more than slightly biased) and all can hold their own in high level content. My Cold/Ice Defender is sometimes a better alpha breaker than most Scraps or Brutes with her defense numbers and perma-Sleet. The reason I gravitate towards Defenders over Controllers is that the Defender buff/debuff numbers are better and they do direct damage at late levels, whereas 'trollers have lower buff/debuff numbers and many higher-level mobs resist control effects.

 

Dark has always been one of my favorite sets, and one of my first 50s on live was a Dark/ Defender. I think the Controller version is actually slightly better with the Defense buff and the Regen/Recovery buff. But the Defender version is still top-notch.

[Renatos1023]

Going to be honest, after 50, I am finding next to no use for Deceive. As I go about IO-ing out my character this is the first power on the chopping block. Allows me to take Vengeance, which opens up a slot for another IO set that gives me +Rech. 

Does anyone find a single target confuse useful, post-50? I can count how many times i've used it on 1 hand. I'd rather the extra slot for some more recharge tbh. 

[evetsleep]

9 hours ago, Renatos1023 said:

Going to be honest, after 50, I am finding next to no use for Deceive. As I go about IO-ing out my character this is the first power on the chopping block. Allows me to take Vengeance, which opens up a slot for another IO set that gives me +Rech. 

Does anyone find a single target confuse useful, post-50? I can count how many times i've used it on 1 hand. I'd rather the extra slot for some more recharge tbh. 

Single target confuses are extremely useful for annoying mobs like sappers and the like.  It's certainly situational, but when I bring my illusionists out I try to keep Deceive in the build to nueter those types of baddies.  Being able to confuse them without aggroing anything has some really high strategic value.

[luxlorica]

Here is a build I was working on. I was aiming for sustain and recharge. I think the sustain looks good but the recharge leaves a bit to be desired. It does end up with perma PA, Tarantula, Fade, and double Tar pit by the very end, but it needs Spiritual and Ageless incarnates to get there. I only had room for two +10% recharge sets and that hurt.

 

Spoiler

Hero Controller
Build plan made with Mids' Reborn v3.6.6 rev. 3
──────────────────────────────

• Primary powerset: Illusion Control
• Secondary powerset: Darkness Affinity
• Pool powerset (#1): Sorcery
• Pool powerset (#2): Fighting
• Pool powerset (#3): Leadership
• Pool powerset (#4): Leaping
• Epic powerset: Mace Mastery

──────────────────────────────

Powers taken:

Level 1: Blind

• A: Superior Will of the Controller: Recharge/Chance for Psionic Damage
• 19: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration
• 19: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance/Recharge
• 21: Superior Will of the Controller: Control Duration/Recharge
• 21: Superior Will of the Controller: Endurance/Recharge
• 42: Superior Will of the Controller: Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance

Level 1: Twilight Grasp

• A: Preventive Medicine: Heal
• 5: Preventive Medicine: Heal/Endurance
• 5: Preventive Medicine: Endurance/RechargeTime
• 13: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime
• 15: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance
• 15: Preventive Medicine: Chance for +Absorb

Level 2: Tar Patch

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 3: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 3: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 4: Mystic Flight

• A: Winter's Gift: Slow Resistance (20%)

Level 6: Arcane Bolt

• A: Apocalypse: Damage
• 7: Apocalypse: Chance of Damage(Negative)
• 7: Apocalypse: Damage/Recharge
• 9: Apocalypse: Damage/Endurance
• 9: Apocalypse: Damage/Recharge/Accuracy
• 39: Apocalypse: Recharge/Accuracy

Level 8: Darkest Night

• A: Dark Watcher's Despair: To Hit Debuff
• 11: Dark Watcher's Despair: To Hit Debuff/Endurance
• 11: Dark Watcher's Despair: To Hit Debuff/Recharge
• 13: Dark Watcher's Despair: To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance

Level 10: Superior Invisibility

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 12: Howling Twilight

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 36: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 36: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 14: Kick

• A: Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge

Level 16: Tough

• A: Steadfast Protection: Resistance/+Def 3%
• 17: Gladiator's Armor: TP Protection +3% Def (All)
• 17: Unbreakable Guard: +Max HP

Level 18: Phantom Army

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 34: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 34: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 20: Fade

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 33: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 34: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 43: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 22: Spectral Terror

• A: Glimpse of the Abyss: Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• 23: Glimpse of the Abyss: Accuracy/Recharge
• 23: Glimpse of the Abyss: Accuracy/Fear/Recharge
• 25: Glimpse of the Abyss: Endurance/Fear
• 25: Glimpse of the Abyss: Fear/Range
• 37: Superior Overpowering Presence: RechargeTime/Energy Font

Level 24: Soul Absorption

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 36: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 40: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 26: Phantasm

• A: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Recharge
• 27: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage
• 27: Expedient Reinforcement: Damage/Endurance
• 33: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

Level 28: Weave

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 29: Shield Wall: +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
• 29: Kismet: Accuracy +6%

Level 30: Dark Servant

• A: Ghost Widow's Embrace: Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• 31: Neuronic Shutdown: Chance of Damage(Psionic)
• 31: Unbreakable Constraint: Chance for Smashing Damage
• 31: Gladiator's Net: Chance of Damage(Lethal)
• 33: Touch of the Nictus: Chance for Negative Energy Damage
• 40: Trap of the Hunter: Chance of Damage(Lethal)

Level 32: Rune of Protection

• A: Aegis: Psionic/Status Resistance
• 37: Impervium Armor: Psionic Resistance
• 37: Impervious Skin: Status Resistance/Regeneration

Level 35: Maneuvers

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 45: Karma: Knockback Protection
• 50: Invention: Endurance Reduction

Level 38: Deceive

• A: Coercive Persuasion : Contagious Confusion
• 45: Coercive Persuasion : Confused
• 46: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Recharge
• 46: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Endurance
• 46: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Recharge/Accuracy

Level 41: Scorpion Shield

• A: Reactive Defenses: Defense
• 42: Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance
• 42: Reactive Defenses: Endurance/RechargeTime
• 43: Reactive Defenses: Defense/RechargeTime
• 43: Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime
• 45: Reactive Defenses: Scaling Resist Damage

Level 44: Focused Accuracy

• A: Invention: Endurance Reduction

Level 47: Summon Tarantula

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 48: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 48: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Recharge
• 48: Expedient Reinforcement: Endurance/Damage/Recharge
• 50: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage
• 50: Expedient Reinforcement: Damage/Endurance

Level 49: Combat Jumping

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

──────────────────────────────

Inherents:

Level 1: Brawl

• (Empty)

Level 1: Containment

Level 1: Sprint

• (Empty)

Level 2: Rest

• (Empty)

Level 1: Swift

• (Empty)

Level 1: Health

• A: Numina's Convalesence: +Regeneration/+Recovery
• 39: Miracle: +Recovery
• 40: Panacea: +Hit Points/Endurance

Level 1: Hurdle

• (Empty)

Level 1: Stamina

• A: Performance Shifter: Chance for +End
• 39: Power Transfer: Chance to Heal Self

Level 4: Translocation

Level 6: Arcane Power

 

──────────────────────────────
Incarnates:

Spiritual Core ParagonMelee Core EmbodimentAgeless Core EpiphanyReactive Radial Flawless Interface

 

 

Spoiler

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Edited January 10 by luxlorica

[Panache]

16 hours ago, Renatos1023 said:

Going to be honest, after 50, I am finding next to no use for Deceive. As I go about IO-ing out my character this is the first power on the chopping block. Allows me to take Vengeance, which opens up a slot for another IO set that gives me +Rech. 

Does anyone find a single target confuse useful, post-50? I can count how many times i've used it on 1 hand. I'd rather the extra slot for some more recharge tbh. 

 

I've got a lot of high level Illusionists (both Doms and Trollers), and I think every single one of them kept Deceive, and slotted it with Coercive. It's definitely more helpful on the toons who went Psi Mastery and can stack it with World of Confusion, but even without that, Deceive is giving 5% Range Def and 10% Recharge; tough to turn those down.

Edited January 10 by Panache

[Shocktacular]

My Ill/dark/psy is one of my favorite characters EVER. She's very clicky, but she can take on pretty much anything with few/no problems. For a long time, the biggest issue I had with her was low toxic resistance, but when they added toxic defense that was fixed. She pretty much steamrolls anything, and I rarely have to summon PA twice for the same mob (running at +3/x8 with full Incarnates). 

By the way, the Chance for Buildup proc from Soulbound Allegiance (very rare Pet IO set) will work with PA, so have fun with that when you get to 50!