Human form WS advice needed

[NastygenV]

Ok so i found this build https://web.archive.org/web/20120911114020/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=296404 which made me want to give WS a try i never played any of the special ATs before. Im also a semi new player so I dont really know the big dogs builds besides the obvious spines/fire scrapper type builds im also not really established at all financially in the game so ive been spending what i get when i get it to try this build out but im now at the purple enhancements purchase stage and really just want to see peoples opinions on this guys build before i invest further. What exactly can this build do is it just a tank primarily that has ranged skills? Can it even match most tanks dmg? He doesnt seem to have much damage buff options that he chooses from the incarnate system. What if any could i change since this may be a outdated human form WS build. I just dont want to feel like im wasting my time but even if i am i seem to still be enjoying the class while i do i was just hoping to make this class work. Really looking for some vet WS players who have done some build testing to give some advice here. Thanks!

Edited February 16 by NastygenV

[Doomrider]

37 minutes ago, NastygenV said:

Ok so i found this build https://web.archive.org/web/20120911114020/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=296404 which made me want to give WS a try i never played any of the special ATs before. Im also a semi new player so I dont really know the big dogs builds besides the obvious spines/fire scrapper type builds im also not really established at all financially in the game so ive been spending what i get when i get it to try this build out but im now at the purple enhancements purchase stage and really just want to see peoples opinions on this guys build before i invest further. What exactly can this build do is it just a tank primarily that has ranged skills? Can it even match most tanks dmg? He doesnt seem to have much damage buff options that he chooses from the incarnate system. What if any could i change since this may be a outdated human form WS build. I just dont want to feel like im wasting my time but even if i am i seem to still be enjoying the class while i do i was just hoping to make this class work. Really looking for some vet WS players who have done some build testing to give some advice here. Thanks!

Imma sort you out real quick.
Just don't. 
I knew THB pretty well so I'm familiar with that build. He and I worked on many builds together and this one was very good at the time, but much has changed since then. 
Human Warshade is not a tank. It's a Hybrid class. It has moderate CC abilities, decent aoe damage, nukes and can cap it's own damage resists when surrounded by enemies but it's Single Target damage is weak.
It has no protection from enemy crowd control abilties which frustrates a lot of newer players, and requires a good amount of recharge bonuses before it comes into it's own and even then, the learning curve is steep.

As a new player, with limited funds especially, save your influence.
Human Warshade is a build with a lot of holes that need to be filled with IO's and Incarnates and can be a frustrating experience to learn while leveling. So I can't recommend it.
Tri-forms Warshades are a different story and typically have a much better time leveling. But even then they require binds/macros to make the most of thus requiring extra steps to set-up.

If you're interested in learning the class, I would suggest leveling up as a Tri-form and get familiar with the powers. If you reach 50 and still enjoying it, then maybe think about investing but it may be better to invest in something else first and circle back to Khelds later.






 

Edited February 16 by Doomrider

[NastygenV]

24 minutes ago, Doomrider said:

Imma sort you out real quick.
Just don't. 
I knew THB pretty well so I'm familiar with that build. He and I worked on many builds together and this one was very good at the time, but much has changed since then. 
Human Warshade is not a tank. It's a Hybrid class. It has moderate CC abilities, decent aoe damage, nukes and can cap it's own damage resists when surrounded by enemies but it's Single Target damage is weak.
It has no protection from enemy crowd control abilties which frustrates a lot of newer players, and requires a good amount of recharge bonuses before it comes into it's own and even then, the learning curve is steep.

As a new player, with limited funds especially, save your influence.
Human Warshade is a build with a lot of holes that need to be filled with IO's and Incarnates and can be a frustrating experience to learn while leveling. So I can't recommend it.
Tri-forms Warshades are a different story and typically have a much better time leveling. But even then they require binds/macros to make the most of thus requiring extra steps to set-up.

If you're interested in learning the class, I would suggest leveling up as a Tri-form and get familiar with the powers. If you reach 50 and still enjoying it, then maybe think about investing but it may be better to invest in something else first and circle back to Khelds later.






 

Damn was really hoping I could go for it. This character has been the one I have grown attached too and seem to want to keep playing nothing else has really stuck with me. I love the look of the skills and fantasy of the class along with its rarity. I knew the post was old and figured it would be outclassed nowadays but a tiny bit of me was really hoping it could be well rounded and workout. Feeling a little defeated now...How are blood widows? I seen some people say they are good or would i just be in the same situation as with the WS?  PS. I have put about 100mill into the class already and almost have maxed Alpha so i am able to have perma eclipse currently im also technically a "new" player but i learn builds and rotations pretty fast. Does that change anything or is human WS just not in a good place and a scrapper or something could do what it does just way better?

Edited February 16 by NastygenV

[Doomrider]

12 hours ago, NastygenV said:

Damn was really hoping I could go for it. This character has been the one I have grown attached too and seem to want to keep playing nothing else has really stuck with me. I love the look of the skills and fantasy of the class along with its rarity. I knew the post was old and figured it would be outclassed nowadays but a tiny bit of me was really hoping it could be well rounded and workout. Feeling a little defeated now...How are blood widows? I seen some people say they are good or would i just be in the same situation as with the WS?  PS. I have put about 100mill into the class already and almost have maxed Alpha so i am able to have perma eclipse currently im also technically a "new" player but i learn builds and rotations pretty fast. Does that change anything or is human WS just not in a good place and a scrapper or something could do what it does just way better?

If you've already leveled it from 1-50, are acquiring Incarnates now, and are still enjoying it then you may be the exception lol.
If you are the kind of player who is willing to use any/all tools at your disposal, whether they are contained within that's classes kit or not, to make the build work then 

you can certainly make Human Form WS work. 
That being said, Widows are a good class. They share some similarities to Warshade. They've both Hybrid dmg/control classes with a mix ranged, melee and control powers but Widow has some Leadership +def buffs built it to help your team. Warshade is Resist based with no mez/cc protection where as Widows are defense based but have mez/cc protection.

If you want to make Human Warshade work, we can make it work. Will other things be better? Yes. But same is true for many things.

I guess it depends on what your goals are. Are you casually playing? More solo oriented, or doing a lot of teaming/pugging? Do you care at all about playing Hard Mode content?




 

[The Trouble]

12 hours ago, NastygenV said:

Damn was really hoping I could go for it. This character has been the one I have grown attached too and seem to want to keep playing nothing else has really stuck with me. I love the look of the skills and fantasy of the class along with its rarity. I knew the post was old and figured it would be outclassed nowadays but a tiny bit of me was really hoping it could be well rounded and workout. Feeling a little defeated now...How are blood widows? I seen some people say they are good or would i just be in the same situation as with the WS?  PS. I have put about 100mill into the class already and almost have maxed Alpha so i am able to have perma eclipse currently im also technically a "new" player but i learn builds and rotations pretty fast. Does that change anything or is human WS just not in a good place and a scrapper or something could do what it does just way better?

A Scrapper is designed to be a better damage dealer.

Warshades were designed to fit whatever gap the gameplay threw at them, but at about 75% the effectiveness of the archetypes designed for those roles.

 

The most extreme builds push classes beyond their design. That’s generally really challenging to do. Now you’re going even further into the fringe by choosing a strictly human Warshade, which is a hardmode within a hardmode in my opinion. What you’re looking for is viable, but only with an extreme familiarity with your powers, enemy types, and situations.

 

I suggest moving to an alternate build that’s tri-form for now. Don’t respec, just switch. Check out the Mfing Warshade guide to learn how to roll through enemies like an ever-shifting black hole of fiery death.

 

Once you’ve done the deep-dive into what Warshades are capable of overall, go respec your human-only build to see how far you can push your limits. Because only then would you know what tools you’ll need to emulate that Black Deathfire as a human.

 

Don't give up on this character!

[NastygenV]

1 hour ago, Doomrider said:

If you've already leveled it from 1-50, are acquiring Incarnates now, and are still enjoying it then you may be the exception lol.
If you are the kind of player who is willing to use any/all tools at your disposal, whether they are contained within that's classes kit or not, to make the build work then 

you can certainly make Human Form WS work. 
That being said, Widows are a good class. They share some similarities to Warshade. They've both Hybrid dmg/control classes with a mix ranged, melee and control powers but Widow has some Leadership +def buffs built it to help your team. Warshade is Resist based with no mez/cc protection where as Widows are defense based but have mez/cc protection.

If you want to make Human Warshade work, we can make it work. Will other things be better? Yes. But same is true for many things.

I guess it depends on what your goals are. Are you casually playing? More solo oriented, or doing a lot of teaming/pugging? Do you care at all about playing Hard Mode content?




 

Wasnt sure of my goals but i was hoping it could do basically all of what you listed. Maybe not great as some but some good enough to be viable but seems like ill just have a hard time especially with AVs. I could probably enjoy Tri-form if it truly is much better I would just need someone too sit down with me and explain how it works. I wanted human form because the esthetics were pleasing to the eye for me and seemed more straight forward. 

[NastygenV]

1 hour ago, The Trouble said:

A Scrapper is designed to be a better damage dealer.

Warshades were designed to fit whatever gap the gameplay threw at them, but at about 75% the effectiveness of the archetypes designed for those roles.

 

The most extreme builds push classes beyond their design. That’s generally really challenging to do. Now you’re going even further into the fringe by choosing a strictly human Warshade, which is a hardmode within a hardmode in my opinion. What you’re looking for is viable, but only with an extreme familiarity with your powers, enemy types, and situations.

 

I suggest moving to an alternate build that’s tri-form for now. Don’t respec, just switch. Check out the Mfing Warshade guide to learn how to roll through enemies like an ever-shifting black hole of fiery death.

 

Once you’ve done the deep-dive into what Warshades are capable of overall, go respec your human-only build to see how far you can push your limits. Because only then would you know what tools you’ll need to emulate that Black Deathfire as a human.

 

Don't give up on this character!

Yeah leaning more towards just trying a tri-form build out now. Is there a build for it thats cheap so someone can test it out and not need to spend billions to make it viable?

[Doomrider]

5 minutes ago, NastygenV said:

Yeah leaning more towards just trying a tri-form build out now. Is there a build for it thats cheap so someone can test it out and not need to spend billions to make it viable?

Check here. It's a bit of an older thread of mine but there is a Tri-Form Budget build posted on page 1. It's a bit of an older build but still viable, and can have tweaks made to it easily.
I made it as a sort of training wheels for Tri-forms. Good base of recharge bonuses but also has 32.5 s/l defense (this is back before the defense changes) but would soft cap s/l with 1 small purple inspiration. 

 

[Gerswin]

When  you get a few billion inf  to play with you can make a monster level 50 human WS build, although I recommend taking the forms for IO muling.  

 

Warshades can live at the damage and all resist caps while at defense softcaps while also having teleport pool, a killer self heal/end, a bunch of proccable powers, and triple stacked pets.  With incarnates, pretty much all weaknesses can be addressed.  Even single target damage can be high if you build for it.

 

Power level varies by situation, but TFs and such are so predictable that you can just choose to exclusively play content that play to WS strengths.

[GM Crumpet]

I've got some level 50 builds in this section that work for me. They are tri-form and it's a really fun AT to play, but it can be complicated. I run or tp into a group. cast shadow slip to group them up, then eclipse, mire. swap to dwarf, mire again, human and nuke, then dwarf to mop up the survivors and nova to catch the runners. Self rez if I miscalculate. 

[NastygenV]

Thanks all for the feedback!

[arkieboy72472]

I have found that the Warshades greatest asset is flexibility within teams. Sometimes I do get frustrated with the crab and squid forms, because they each have about 5 attacks and seem limited. However, when my team lacks a tank, I tend to do that more. When they have one, I tend to blast more, but mainly in melee range. The only blasting issue is the KB, but that can be fixed.

 

Being human only will hurt until you get eclipse. I can already tell a human only build will be damn expensive. I tend to get frustrated with squid form and I can see how as a tank the lack of damage is frustrating. As a human, you are totally reliant on your buffs hitting to be able to survive. I can see living without squid form if any. A good build will be expensive and probably lacking the slots you really want.

 

You can always strip it down, transfer assets, and try something else. Tons of alt choices. You first may want to find a AT and set that matches your play style. If you want a high damage tank, grab a brute. If you want to tank but also enable your team to play as they wish, be an actual tank. 
 

Sets also matter too. Like when you are a Force Field Defender, that’s a very laid back playstyle. When you are a trick arrow defender, you stay busy. Both buff and debuff. Both blast.