Ill/Martial "Assaulter" concept

[Steampunkette]

I love the assault sets. I sincerely think the Sentinel would've been way cooler if it were an Assault/Defense hybrid archetype with some number tweaking to make it hit hard and have solid AoE rather than needing to have a nuke installed.

 

So I've got this concept to make an Assault-Focused character whose main active contribution to a fight is throwing things, martial arts, and using her duplication power to add additional versions of herself to a fight (None of which are able to duplicate, but each has their own superpowers).

 

So... I think my main goals, here, are going to be defense and resistances, mez protection as I can get it, and enough recharge and recovery to not die at enemies while flinging ridiculous numbers of shuriken at them and hoping my minions tank for me.

 

Right now I'm looking at Ill/Martial/Psi for Link Minds and Indomitable Will. Probably with Superior Invisibility for the added defense, there, and no travel power to speak of.

 

Has anyone done a build like this, before? Are there any suggestions for specific ways to make it work?

 

It'll never have the lockdown or sheer dominance of a permadom character, I recognize that. I'm just looking to have some fun with it. Please don't bother to jump into the thread to talk me out of having a little silly fun.

[Luminara]

I have Ill/Savage/Ice (The Pack) and Dark/Martial/Dark (Captress).  I've been playing both for quite a while, and they're the two I'm most likely to be found playing.  If Illusion Control had been available for dominators when I made my Dark/Martial, I definitely would've made Ill/Martial instead.  The only reason I haven't deleted these two and made an Ill/Martial is that I like both of the existing characters, their play styles, too much.

 

On the /Martial side, +Damage, +Damage, and if you can swing it, +Damage.  /Martial is Damage-lite.  Without a pile of +Damage, it's going to feel like a petless mastermind.  Your attack chain is going to be... frustrating.  I've tried every variation of chains possible and the only way to make a chain without Cross Punch is to skip Dragon's Tail and Masterful Throw.  Yes, that sounds ludicrous, because Masterful Throw is the best attack in the set and Dragon's Tail is a "good" PBAoE, but the problem is that every attack in /Martial is fast and the recharge times on those two are slow.  You can't build an attack chain with either, or both, that doesn't require frequent pauses while you wait for them to recharge.

 

I know that sounds like I'm hating on /Martial.  I'm not.  My Dark/Martial is one of my all time favorites, and I've respeced more than three dozen times in an effort to make it work with those attacks.  It just doesn't.  I'm sitting on 175% global +Recharge (155% from IO set bonuses and 20% from the empowerment station buff) and Dragon's Tail and Masterful Throw still aren't viable for a chain.  No matter how many ways I arrange the sequence, with one or both of those powers, it's only functional if you're using the piddling T1 as filler, or take every attack and use all of them.  I don't build that way.  It's inelegant, and trying to reach the 6 and 7 keys with one hand makes it too easy to hit the wrong keys when you try to go back to WASD.

 

So you'll be working with Thunder Kick/Trick Shot/Spinning Kick/Explosive Shuriken.  You can replace Spinning or Explosive with Cross Punch, if that's your preference.  Put the Ascendency proc in Thunder Kick, it'll get you triple-stacked very quickly, and keep you there.  Don't waste a selection on Envenomed Blades, or, if you do take, don't waste a slot on it.  The damage it adds isn't even enough to call it "negligible".  Put Spinning Kick right after Thunder Kick in you chain.  The animation transition is slightly faster than if you use a shuriken attack after Thunder Kick.  Thunder/Spinning/Trick/Explosive/repeat.

 

Illusion: dominator PA doesn't taunt, but you don't need them to tank for you unless you're fighting AVs/GMs.  For everything else, Gleam is your damage mitigation.  If you are fighting AVs/GMs, Spectral Wall and Spectral Terror will shave off some of the Defense you need to stay alive, and PA will pull some of the aggro away from you, so you won't have to build quite as heavily for Defense/Resistance.  Really, you can easy-mode most content with nothing but Gleam and PA from Ill.  They're that good.

 

You'll want a Slow from the *PPs.  Stunned enemies can't fight back, but they can wander aimlessly and screw up your AoE targeting.  That's especially frustrating with Spinning Kick, since it's not targeted.  Dark (Tar Patch) or Ice (Sleet) would be better than the Psi Mastery APP, for that reason.  Tar Patch for the strong Slow, Sleet for the Slow + Knockdown.  With Ill's ability to neuter entire spawns in a blink, Psi doesn't bring anything noteworthy to the table (you don't need Indomitable Will, you have Domination).  Ice would probably be the least thematically appropriate, but Sleet does recharge 60s faster than Tar Patch, so it's up for every fight (if you're competent at building), whereas enemies have to be pulled into Tar Patch.  Ice also has Hoarfrost, and you'll want a heal of some kind at some point, because Murphy's Law always applies (not Soul Consumption, though.  the recharge:duration ratio is terrible).  Fold Space makes Tar Patch just as viable as Sleet, since you can use it to drop things right at your feet, if you want to go deep into Teleportation.

Put the Soulbound Allegience proc in PA.  Yes, it works, and yes, it's worth the extra slot.

 

Skip Phantasm.  It gets stuck in doorways and ceilings and thin air, so much so that I finally gave up on it on my Ill controller and never took it at all on my dominator.  When my controller did have it, it was more annoyance than assistance, and I haven't missed it at all in the four years since I dumped it.

 

Be prepared for some KB.  Spinning Kick is KD, several of PA's attacks are KD, there's going to be some squirting.  PA by itself will cause that.  It's not frequent enough to be irritating, even with a KD patch like Sleet active, but it will happen occasionally.  Shouldn't bother you since you'll have two ranged attacks.

 

You can easily perma-Dom an Ill/Martial.  With just IO set bonuses, the Offensive Amplifier and empowerment station buffs, you can have perma-Dom by the mid- to late-30's.  My Ill/Savage is at 162.5% global +Recharge (without Hasten, Ageless, Offensive Amplifier or the empowerment station buff, and not including the +Recharge from Blood Frenzy stacks), and my Dark/Martial is at 155% (again, that's just IO set bonuses).

 

At Incarnate levels, Agility or Spiritual will put PA firmly into perma- territory.  Yes, either will slightly reduce proc chances, but perma-PA is worth it.

 

Slot the Launch: Jumping/Increased Jump Height if you can, it stacks with the START running powers and you'll find it handy for improving your mobility (i use it with Athletic Run on my Staff/Willpower brute).  A second slot in Hurdle would also bump up your Jump speed considerably (that also stacks with the freebie runs), if the slower movement speed starts annoying you.

 

Go to one of the PvP zones and buy Rampage from the vendor.  Pop it while you're there and you're at full Domination.  Saves a few minutes of building up Domination by spamming a PBAoE or interrupting a snipe over and over again.  It doesn't work outside of the PvP zones, but if you're perma-Domming, you only need it once per play session.

[Luminara]

for_steamy.mbd

That's a starter template for you to fiddle with.

[AlwaysAPrice]

I played a mind/martial/psi focused on being an in-the-mix meleer regardless of domination state for a while. That build ended up soft-capped to melee and ranged and capped to Smethal resist, and still had a sizable window to maintain perma Dom...which admittedly makes that defensive overslotting totally irrelevant most of the time. But when it is relevant it feels pretty badass. It seems like it would be more often relevant for ill/ though, because from the little experience I've had with ill/ doms so far it's focused more on distraction than lockdown. There will usually be enemies loose, spread out and/or staggering around to hunt down which could have you stray into the sights of other things that aren't mezzed.

 

I like Dragon's Tail with the mind/martial, don't feel like I have the attack chain issues with it Luminara described (I mostly alternate Thunder & Spinning kicks between Tails with Trick Shot or Dominate filling gaps as suits what's left of the spawn) but I ended up dropping the similar Rending Flurry on my ill/savage just because things were just always too spread out from Gleam & Phantom Army to get anything bunched up enough to make the most of it. I revisited the mind/martial as an ill/martial after the set was ported to doms but that version's only in the 30s so far and I haven't sorted its build out yet, but I'll attach my mind/martial if it can provide some general ideas - older build, not updated with new power ordering.

 

You mentioned wanting to pick up mez protection where you can and expecting this not to be comparable to a permadom build, but don't forget Domination is mez protection (not in a figurative "mezzed enemies can't mez you" way, it literally provides full status protection for its duration) and since you'll probably want recharge for offensive purposes anyway you could easily end up with permadom, and thus mez immunity (not to mention endurance refills that greatly reduce what would otherwise be a stark need for +recovery), without even necessarily trying. Especially with Defense being one of your goals, you'll probably be after some combination of pool toggles that will give you several places to hold LotG +Recharges as a starting point.

 

Psi is not the greatest epic overall but it works pretty well for your goals here: Link Minds is a big chunk of Defense that doesn't just benefit you but your team as well, and Indomitable Will is...well, almost pointless, unless you're going up against Carnies or Rikti (it gives a massive chunk of Psi Defense), BUT it requires no slotting to do its one job of "protect me until Domination is ready" and is the perfect spot to hold a Shield Wall unique without needing an extra slot.

 

...also, giving the OP another read, it isn't explicitly stated but it almost sounds like what you're actually planning is a "petless MM" take on the dominator by not even using controls at all?  If so, awesome. Ill/'s probably the best set to do it with because it's the one with inventive alternatives to control to play around and deal more damage with, and I can attest to the effectiveness of a defensively built /martial -- I can go long stretches solo where I don't even bother to throw out a mass control because I'm just fightin' stuff, mez-protected and refueled by permadom (and still get some incidental domination popups on Thunder Kick and World of Confusion).

Inmi Xayn Again - Dominator (Mind Control).mxd

[twozerofoxtrot]

18 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

Right now I'm looking at Ill/Martial/Psi for Link Minds and Indomitable Will.

 

Link Minds is really not worth the squeeze on Doms. The Defense/Res is a pittance and the amount of time it takes to cast is frustrating. I've tried it on 3 Doms and so far only kept it on one mostly as a LOTG mule since I had to take something to get to Mind Over Body. 

 

18 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

Has anyone done a build like this, before?

 

For the concept you outlined in your thesis, I did this with a Hasten-less Permadom Grav/MA/Scorp. I use Teleport Target to make sure Singy is nearby, Wormhole a mob to me, and then pound on them relentlessly while they're stunned and Singy plays with them. In order to achieve Permadom, you have to really aggressively lean into the face kicking aspect to proc Force Feedback.

 

The Permadom precludes the need for additional mez protection. Scorpion Shield doesn't go as far as it used to for defenses, but it still suffices if I'm not being silly while solo.

 

18 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

It'll never have the lockdown or sheer dominance of a permadom character, I recognize that. I'm just looking to have some fun with it. Please don't bother to jump into the thread to talk me out of having a little silly fun.

 

I think it can be a permadom character you have fun with! I'll come back later and post the build and you can decide for yourself if you'd like to go this route over Ill/MA.

 

[jprewitt73]

18 hours ago, Luminara said:

I know that sounds like I'm hating on /Martial.  I'm not.  My Dark/Martial is one of my all time favorites, and I've respeced more than three dozen times in an effort to make it work with those attacks.  It just doesn't.  I'm sitting on 175% global +Recharge (155% from IO set bonuses and 20% from the empowerment station buff) and Dragon's Tail and Masterful Throw still aren't viable for a chain.  No matter how many ways I arrange the sequence, with one or both of those powers, it's only functional if you're using the piddling T1 as filler, or take every attack and use all of them.  I don't build that way.  It's inelegant, and trying to reach the 6 and 7 keys with one hand makes it too easy to hit the wrong keys when you try to go back to WASD.

 

So you'll be working with Thunder Kick/Trick Shot/Spinning Kick/Explosive Shuriken.  You can replace Spinning or Explosive with Cross Punch, if that's your preference.  Put the Ascendency proc in Thunder Kick, it'll get you triple-stacked very quickly, and keep you there.  Don't waste a selection on Envenomed Blades, or, if you do take, don't waste a slot on it.  The damage it adds isn't even enough to call it "negligible".  Put Spinning Kick right after Thunder Kick in you chain.  The animation transition is slightly faster than if you use a shuriken attack after Thunder Kick.  Thunder/Spinning/Trick/Explosive/repeat.

Is there any chance you would be willing to post your Dark/Martial build? I have fallen in love with mine as well and have been playing it as a ranged fighter the whole time. Now I'm realizing I am probably missing a lot of potential damage. 

 

[Steampunkette]

Y'all are -awesome-! ❤️

 

Thank you! Gonna mess with this 'For Steamy' build and have some kicks and giggles, maybe!

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, jprewitt73 said:

Is there any chance you would be willing to post your Dark/Martial build?

 

captress.mbd

 

This build really only needs Darkest Night in conjunction with the Defense I've accumulated, or Heart of Darkness.  Either will neuter spawns.  I like to have a lot of knives in the toolbox, though, and more places to squeeze in global +Recharge.

 

No, it's not loaded with procs.  I'm too lazy to play Whack-a-Mole with Hasten and Ageless and a bunch of other crap.  I play to relax, not to work.

 

The latest version of Mids' is, as usual, rife with database errors.  In this case, Darkest Night's not showing a toggle cost (it's 0.37 with that slotting), or the correct -ToHit (it's 19.06%).

 

Ice may be a better APP if you go with Heart instead of soft-capping, but the potential for KB resulting from KD stacking has kept me from trying it.

 

Haunt isn't integral, I mostly use it as a distraction.  Like Gremlins, the shades about as dangerous as a cheesecake, and only slightly more durable.  That's okay, there's more where they came from.

 

Dumped the dog, couldn't stand the noise.

 

Standard approach is to open with Haunt, toggle on Darkest Night, drop Tar Patch and run in screaming.  I'm trying to figure out how to fit the Teleportation pool in so I can Combat Teleport into a spawn, Heart of Darkness, then Tar Patch and start kicking things in the face, but I can't thread the +Recharge needle yet.  Still looking.

 

Tried using Fearsome Stare for seven or eight respecs, problem with that is when something runs, it spends an extra half-minute standing in one spot before it starts running again, so it takes even longer to finish runners.

 

Also tried World of Confusion for about a year (the character was modeled after Batgirl/Huntress, and i thought a PBAoE Confuse would be really good for emulating the chaos that the fear of those supers would cause), but the soap bubble was driving me up a wall.

 

Soul Consumption is bad, but 7.5% global +Recharge is good.

 

Carry blues.  Or use the Survival Amplifier.  Even with the empowerment station +Recovery buff, I go through endurance almost as fast as I go through spawns.  That's /Martial Assault, though.  Fast animations mean fast endurance burn.

 

Caltrops is just a filler.  Replace it with whatever's interesting to you.  Hell, with this build, you could throw Envenomed Blades in and have it almost perma with a 50+5 Recharge in the default slot.  It doesn't add any appreciable damage, but the ToHit buff might be helpful when you're facing one of those damned all-ghosts CoT spawns, or dealing with Carnies.

 

One of these days, I'll find a way to squeeze the Teleportation pool in and take it to the next level.  Just have to figure out how to thread the +Recharge needle.

[Luminara]

Captress - Dominator (Darkness Control) Haunt (Ice).mxd

 

That's the /Ice Mastery build I'm contemplating for my Dark/Martial.  It trades soft-capping for reliance on the stun and healing up/capping HP with Hoarfrost.  With the +Recharge and +Recovery empowerment station buffs (Mids' doesn't include the +Recovery buff in the Temporary Powers group, and the group can't be edited.  i edited the +Perception power on the older database i'm using, adding the +Recharge/Recovery buffs to that, which is why it's in the build), this build pegs 200% +Recharge and 4.24/s recovery.  Added Envenomed Blades for the +ToHit, might be better with Caltrops to further restrict enemy movement while Sleet is active.  Have to test it, but I'm focused on my Elec/Rad dom right now.

[jprewitt73]

18 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

captress.mbd 45.64 kB · 1 download

 

This is fantastic! Thank you @Luminara! Now you've got me pondering dropping the dog. I don't see a lot of use out of him, but I have always liked the idea of pets with control sets. If only I could change the look of the dog I would be in heaven...

[jprewitt73]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

Captress - Dominator (Darkness Control) Haunt (Ice).mxd 5.64 kB · 0 downloads

 

 

This one is even better! I am using the Ice Mastery for thematic reasons, so this is great! Do you see yourself missing the snipe? I have always enjoyed snipes on Dominators, but I can see why you may have dropped it. 

 

[Luminara]

27 minutes ago, jprewitt73 said:

Do you see yourself missing the snipe?

 

Nope.  I had it for 29 or 30 respecs, and no matter how hard I tried to make it work, it was just a problem.  Everything in /Martial is fast, except Masterful Throw's recharge time.  Chaining a bunch of attacks with fast animations and one with a slow recharge time creates a whole lot of headaches.  Replacing it with Explosive Shuriken was the best change I've ever made to the build.

 

You can sub it in where Misdirection is, if it's important to you.

[jprewitt73]

Yeah, I think I fell in love with the idea of a snipe attack, but honestly, the more I think about it the more I realize I don't use it. 

 

Thank you!

 

[Luminara]

Captress - Dominator (Darkness Control) Haunt (Ice 2).mxd

 

Slightly different approach with this variation.  Maneuvers is gone, Combat Teleport is in.  Misdirection is out, too, and Masterful Throw back in the build.  Those changes free up a couple of slots, which I put into Frozen Armor.  Instead of trying to replace the Defense lost when Maneuvers was removed, this leans into the extra Resistance provided by Frozen Armor.  You lose about 7% Fire/Cold/Psi Defense, less than 3% Energy/Negative Defense, but gain ~12% Fire Resistance ~37% Cold Resistance and ~8% Smashing/Lethal Defense.  I think it's a net gain in mitigation.  You're more vulnerable to Slows, but with 200% global +Recharge, you'd have to be ignoring a couple of stacked Snow Storms or something similar for perma-Domination to lapse.

 

It also loses 1.8 Max Endurance, but the endurance consumption is slightly lower (0.8/s versus 0.84/s).

 

The Apocalypse: Acc/Rchg in Explosive Shuriken is also changed to Apocalypse: Damage, which bumps up the proc chance by 9%.  More importantly, even if both the empowerment station buff and Offensive Amplifier are lost, the attack is recharging in 3.71s.  The animation time for Thunder/Spinning/Trick is 3.696s.  The 0.014s difference will be swallowed up by network latency, client response and server response, so the chain will still be perfect under less than optimal conditions.

 

Now, if you want to use Masterful Throw in the chain, you'll have to replace Spinning Kick with Dragon's Tail, and your chain will be Thunder/Dragon's/Trick/Explosive/Masterful.  And it'll fold if you don't have both the empowerment station buff and Offensive Amplifier.

 

Move the End/Def IO in Tough over to Frozen Armor, that'll add another ~2.5% Cold Resistance and ~1% Fire Resistance.  You could also replace one of the Ribosomes with a Cytoskeleton, for a net gain of ~3% Smashing/Lethal Defense at the cost of ~1.25% Cold Resistance and ~0.75% Fire Resistance.  The more I poke this build, the more I like it.

Edited April 25 by Luminara

[Steampunkette]

 

What I eventually wound up going for. Focusing almost exclusively on having strong attacks, softcapped S/L, decent S/L resistance, and having enough recharge to have PA up almost permanently. (16 second cooldown) Between them and the Spectral Terror being available every 13 seconds I'm pretty decent at shrugging off large scale Alphas and cleaning up spawns fairly quickly. The character is currently 30 and pretty solid, honestly!

 

She's never going to tear up Pylons in 20 seconds or anything, but that's never been my goal.

 

 

[Old Dirty Blaster]

My Cleverman toon is Shadow Clone Shinobi concept build.  Wished the PA had a custom attack so I could use weapon attack animations.  However, it is just hella fun. Took speed of sound for the jaunt teleport, and just use hover and fly for 7.5 LotG mule and Hami raiding. The heal is also handy and this is the only Illusion Controller or Dominator (14 over two accounts at 50) that I took flash on for the set and also it fits the sneak concept and playstyle as a flashbang when follow by Dragon Tail and Spinning Kick.   This is just a total guilty pleasure toon.  I do need to eventually put a regular set  five deep in Accen of the Dom and +3 the Nuc in Master throw, but that will not make truly any difference just for the rich wasteful bastard effect.

Dominator (Illusion Control - Martial Assault).mbd

Edited June 6 by Old Dirty Blaster

[Thraxen]

Just made one. Seems fun so far. 

[Caimie]

The combo is fun to play and can be built multiple ways to suite how you like to play or your concept.

 

I loosely modeled mine after my MA/Invul Scrapper from Live and that's how I played it.

 

  I took Leadership instead of Fighting pool, so it's more of a glass cannon type build, and loaded the skills up with Procs, especially those that would take the Force Feedback Proc.

 

It solos well and does good in teams, but can struggle building Domination, at times, on teams that are melee heavy.

 

I didn't take Exploding Shuriken, Phantasm and Shuriken Throw, but took Deceive, Gleam and Flash.  Gleam is a great opener and Deceive is very useful if you want to run some solo stuff.

 

It's not Perma-Dom yet and I'm still slotting sets, but it's a blast to play.