Pain/Dark Build advice

[Aurora99]

Hello heroes. This is the first time i've tried building something in Mids and although quite very expensive I'm not sure if there is anything wrong with it.

If there's any holes in it can someone point it out and give some advice on how to fix or avoid it. Thanks!

Defender (Pain Domination - Dark Blast).mbd

[Sanguinesun]

1. What are your specific goals with this build?  General casual play?  Specific set of friends that you play with that you're attempting to compliment/supplement the their dynamics with your team?  Stay back n fight? Get in melee and fight?  etc etc etc.   Your build  should be shaped by your goals unless you're just casually playing and anything goes, at which point your build overall doesnt matter too much as its mostly going to be a "what I like" build.  

 

2.  Soul storm with a recharge but no accuracy and just  slotted may not be extremely effective.  Its a good single target hold but since its a later earned power it benefits more from slotting more with it as later game mobs will be resistant to being hit by it.  If slotting is an issue,  and you have other play goals, you may want to make other considerations either with other powers to give it more slotting or replacing it with another power to use the slot as a mule.

 

3.  How effectively/frequently do you intend to use conduit of pain.  Your slotting for that could be better as well as you need to keep in mind its "special" effect.

 

4. Was there a specific reason you opted to not take either of your ATO sets?

 

5. You have more effectivity in the gaussian proc put in the world of pain that full slotted in tactics unless you've some goal specific with having the full slotted bonuses for the set in tactics.

 

 

 

All in all, really knowing your goals helps to determine your build's considerations but overall the build seems to do its intentions with both healing/buffing/damage etc.

[Aurora99]

Starting from 1. To begin with the build was more of a hodgepodge of what i've seen from other builds and putting it all together with the powers catered more towards being in melee to get most of my PBAoEs and with Soothing Aura to help assuage the damage being taken. Not planning on running this character solo and more catered for group content

2. Soul storm as you've seen was just placed there because I wasn't really sure on what else I'd put there so I just slapped a Rech on it and called it a day. Since I didn't really see it fitting into my build... Or any of the remaining powers i just put in Grant Invis and put a LotG global recharge.

3. Conduit of Pain would just be a rez and although a set would be nice i don't think there's enough slots to go around and i've even removed one to place elsewhere 

4. I was taking very large inspiration from how I saw other people slot dark powers so i thought that there was no reason to. But now i know a little bit more about how this all works i can see that may not have been the smartest move.

5. Like the first sentence from 4 it was largely ripped from another but after having a look at the build i'd rather have the %def increases over a reliable damage boost

It's nice to hear that although what i'd thought to be messy was actually ok at what it did. From this input i've made a few changes which are minor such as adding the ATO sets and removing Life Drain and Soul Bind entirely and focusing a bit more on AoE defence (it's 3% but i'll take it). Thanks heaps for the help and here's the updated build for those interested

PainDark3.mbd

[Zect]

This is, actually, nowhere as bad as I imagined it would be. Your build goals are reasonable, and key powers are all taken, although anguishing cry should really be earlier, and you  want better rech on it, so you can use it every spawn and keep it perma on an AV. You should think about boosting the pieces with rech enhancement and/or changing the slotting to one with more rech in it.

 

If you want aoe def, the most slot-efficient aoe def in the game is 6x frozen blast in a taoe for 7.5% aoe def. All fenders can hit 31-35% aoe def with this slotted (depending on how many +def pool powers they take), and from there you're just a small purple to the softcap.

 

You should also look at your slotting in your healing powers. Slotting half of each set in soothing aura like this not only misses the best set bonuses from each set, you also get less set bonuses overall - you added 5 slots but get only 4 bonuses. This kind of frankenslotting has its applications, but should be used with care. When designing set IO builds, in general you should pay attention to the Big Five (in no particular order: rech, def, res, enhancement values, and procs) because these are typically the most impactful areas where you can improve your builds. Once you meet your build goals in these areas then you can start looking at other bonuses.

 

A meta consideration is that the strong set bonuses in healing IO sets tend to be costly in terms of slots, such as of 6x preventive med, 6x numina, 5x panacea and 5x doctored wounds. On my pains, I usually only 2-slot some healing powers (e.g. share pain) and use spiritual alpha to make up the missing heal enhancement.

 

 

Here's an example of how you can achieve better defenses with a minimum of set bonuses by choosing the most slot-efficient options. You can easily achieve permahasten if you take spiritual, or nearly permahasten if you take ageless, with the remainder of your slots. Instead of 6x preemptive optimization, you can take several sets of 2x botz instead since you have a lot of teleport powers. You'll activate and refresh the numina's proc naturally as you heal in combat, so it does not need to go in health.

 

(Note that part of Stealth's defense bonus suppresses in combat. I have mids configured to count only the part that doesn't suppress.)

 

 

Finally, I don't know how important soul storm is to your concept; but if you are willing to drop it, there are some more impractful choices you can take. Power boost is the star of /soul and increases the strength of your heals and -def, and it has a remarkably high uptime. Fold space is also very good and speeds up cleartimes significantly by grouping enemies that won't herd nicely.

 

 

Edited May 1 by Zect

[Xandyr]

Why 6 slot a rez? To me, that's a waste of slots.

 

And be sure to put the Panacea proc in Soothing Aura. It will proc on everyone in the radius.

[Zect]

On 5/1/2024 at 9:39 PM, Xandyr said:

Why 6 slot a rez? To me, that's a waste of slots.

 

It's actually a self +tohit +dmg +rech +recov buff.

 

But the real answer is that there are indeed a variety of very slot-efficient ways to get +ranged def, depending on what you are comfortable muling, where you want that enhancement value, and what other set bonuses you need. 3 sets of 2x botz is one. Slotting manticore's in moonbeam and moving the ATIO1 to a different attack is another. 6x t-strikes in gloom and making up the aoe def with 4x shield breakers in angushing cry (remember to +5, it's a lv30 set) is a third. I encourage you to experiment further with the invention system and outdo my build if you can.

[Xandyr]

3 hours ago, Zect said:

 

It's actually a self +tohit +dmg +rech +recov buff.

 

But the real answer is that there are indeed a variety of very slot-efficient ways to get +ranged def, depending on what you are comfortable muling, where you want that enhancement value, and what other set bonuses you need. 3 sets of 2x botz is one. Slotting manticore's in moonbeam and moving the ATIO1 to a different attack is another. 6x t-strikes in gloom and making up the aoe def with 4x shield breakers in angushing cry (remember to +5, it's a lv30 set) is a third. I encourage you to experiment further with the invention system and outdo my build if you can.

Yes, I know it's a self buff, that can only be used if a teammate dies. If what you're chasing is the set bonus (mainly ranged Defense), then that's your prerogative. A simple "I want to get as much Ranged Defense as I could" would have sufficed. Personally, in my humble opinion (which isn't worth much compared to the Build Gods' opinion), since Pain kinda likes to be in mix of things, it might be important to put a little focus on Melee/AoE Defense. For your teammates to get the benefit of Soothing Aura (15' radius) and to apply Anguishing Cry (PBAoE with a 25' radius), some Melee/AoE Defense might be needed was well.

  The clip you posted has power choices taken in a manner that is impossible to do in game (powers taken when they aren't available). Your slotting leaves 23 additional slots left for the other powers you plan on taking...which there would be 10 other powers available to take.

 

  What people need to realize is that one person may want to build for a specific goal...i.e Ranged Defense. Someone else may want to build for more Damage/Procs, or more AoE Defense. And yet another person may want to build to be more support/better heals/more regen/etc etc. And you know what? There's nothing wrong whatsoever with how a person wants to build their toon, or what goals they want to shoot for.

Edited May 2 by Xandyr

[Xandyr]

On 4/29/2024 at 9:29 AM, Aurora99 said:

Starting from 1. To begin with the build was more of a hodgepodge of what i've seen from other builds and putting it all together with the powers catered more towards being in melee to get most of my PBAoEs and with Soothing Aura to help assuage the damage being taken. Not planning on running this character solo and more catered for group content

2. Soul storm as you've seen was just placed there because I wasn't really sure on what else I'd put there so I just slapped a Rech on it and called it a day. Since I didn't really see it fitting into my build... Or any of the remaining powers i just put in Grant Invis and put a LotG global recharge.

3. Conduit of Pain would just be a rez and although a set would be nice i don't think there's enough slots to go around and i've even removed one to place elsewhere 

4. I was taking very large inspiration from how I saw other people slot dark powers so i thought that there was no reason to. But now i know a little bit more about how this all works i can see that may not have been the smartest move.

5. Like the first sentence from 4 it was largely ripped from another but after having a look at the build i'd rather have the %def increases over a reliable damage boost

It's nice to hear that although what i'd thought to be messy was actually ok at what it did. From this input i've made a few changes which are minor such as adding the ATO sets and removing Life Drain and Soul Bind entirely and focusing a bit more on AoE defence (it's 3% but i'll take it). Thanks heaps for the help and here's the updated build for those interested

PainDark3.mbd

 

 I threw together a build to give you another option. Yours is good. You have perma Hasten (mine is off by 6 seconds). I kept Grant Invis/Stealth since you had it in your build (for the Defense and to mule LotG). I dropped the TP pool for Leaping (CJ and Super Jump....that's a personal preference...I had an accident a few years ago and am missing part of my left index finger, so SJ is easiest for me to maneuver). I took Dark Pit and Oppressive Gloom for set bonus and to stack the stun for some Crowd Control. My Resists and Defense are a little higher

than yours. In the Snip, my totals are on the right, yours on the left.

 

 

What Alpha do you plan on taking? Several of them would fit really good:  Musc for the Damage/End Mod/Defense Debuff, Cardiac for End Redux/Damage Resistance, Intuition (Def Debuff/To Hit Debuff/Damage), Vigor (Accy/End Redux/Healing).  I have a Necro/Pain MM and I actually took Vigor Core. It's worked out pretty good. I switch between it and Musculature Radial (Vigor when teaming, Musc when solo).

 

 Either way, I think your build is good and I hope you enjoy playing it!

 

Defender (Pain.Dark).mbd

[twozerofoxtrot]

Hi there, no specific advice to give but figured this is kind of a niche setup I don't see many play so I figured why not toss out a build I've actually played 1-50 with (powers slotted as able along the way). 

 

Full disclosure: I haven't looked at any of the other builds. Based on OP's feedback to Sanguine's questions, I'm assuming we're just looking at having a good time in teams. That's what I build my Pain/Dark for. Not to be amazing at any one thing, just have fun and be useful. There's definitely room to improve for one's own style of play, proclivities, or tailored build goals.

 

Basic thoughts:

• Procs are fun.
• A mix of middling resists and SL defense softcap actually makes one "tanky enough."
  • Perma World of Pain.
  • Softcap everything with one medium purple insp if you're not sure about a risky play.
• HP Cap is useful and easy to hit.
• Flying is good for positioning and getting away from bullshit.
• Nullify Pain is all that's needed for spot healing.

Shortcomings:

• 10 seconds off perma Anguishing Cry (can be reduced by putting Prev Med proc in Nullify Pain and slotting 1x 50+5 recharge here)
• 2 seconds off perma Painbringer
• 9 seconds off perma Hasten

Strategies:

• Chain Anguishing Cry into Blackstar on dives.
• Stay close to melee for sustained healings and recovery from Panacea-loaded Aura; don't fuss about cone efficacy.
• Toss out Enforced Morale while moving around the map. 90s of +5% Recharge and minor move speed buffs. A nice perk. Very useful for squishies on incarnate-disabled missions.
• Tenebrous Tentacles mid-dive or after a teammate Folds Space can be useful. Otherwise used to fish for Def ATO procs.
• Cross-bind World of Pain to W key; cross-bind Hasten to ASD. Stay buffed all the time.

Incarnates:

1.  Alpha: Cardiac Core; you can do something else but I went this because I wanted all three boosts.
2.  Judgement: Your call but I went with Void for theme. Pyro would be my meta pick for the fast cast time.
3.  Interface: Degen; you've plenty of -Res already
4.  Lore: Banished Pantheon. They debuff Dark and Cold Dam Res; this directly benefits you as well the pets.
5.  Destiny: Clarion Core for casual play so you don't lock up. Other stuff as required or desired for content being run.
6.  Hybrid: Assault Radial; Procs are fun.

Defender - Pain Domination - Dark Blast Toggle Alt.mxd