Presence power pool: Suggested tweaks to code

[tidge]

I will be discussing the PvE aspects of the pool. I am not ignorant of the PvP side, but for the purposes of my suggestion I will be only refering to PvE.

 

Background for my interest: I like the Presence pool, as it offers a unique set of powers but I find it has some issues that make it rather clumsy to dive into. I will briefly enumerate what I see as its primary barriers to entry. I don't intend to address all of these perceived issues! My specific suggestions are motivated by this: The barrier to entry into Presence pool requires the choice of either/both Pacify or/and Provoke.

 

Spoiler

1) These two powers are essentially "orthogonal" to each other. One seeks to get critter attention, one seeks to lose critter attention. It is difficult to rationalize having both powers.

 

2) Both Pacify and Provoke mimic core functionality found in primary/secondary power sets for a wide variety of ATs. From memory:

 

Provoke mimics the Taunt power available to Tankers and Brutes, and the Confront available to Scrappers and Arachnos Widows. I am ignoring the Kheldian Antagonize, as in Dwarf form Power pool powers cannot be used.

 

Pacify mimics the Placate power available to Stalkers, Arachnos Soldiers and Arachnos Widows.

 

It is noted: Pacify and Provoke require ToHit checks, whereas the powers they mimic may not.

 

3) Sidebar about advancing in the Presence pool:

 

The third power in the Presence pool is Intimidate, it requires either Pacify or Provoke. It is a single target Terrorized, which is of limited utility and has neither great magnitude or duration, but I digress. One last digression: Intimidate is not selectable as a pool power until level 14, the same as the "final two" powers.

 

The final two powers in Presence pool require two "earlier" picks; note that Intimidate is only selectable at the same level as Invoke Panic and Unrelenting. This effectively delays choosing either Invoke Panic or Unreleneting until after Intimidate is chosen, if a player choses to not take the two "orthogonal" powers of Pacify and Provoke.

 

My biggest complaints about the Presence pool boil down to this: Several ATs will be required, if they want any of the "last three" powers in the Presence pool, to either

• Take a power that is orthogonal to a power in their primary/secondary (e.g. Tankers with Pacify)
• Take an inferior (primarily because ToHit check, but also duration, etc. ) version of a power already their primary/secondary

 

My suggestion is to add archetype checks to both Pacify and Provoke to almost duplicate what the relevant primary/secondary powers would be doing. I am not suggesting a change to the ToHit requirements or number of Targets, or range, etc. of either Pacify or Provoke.

 

Examples to be added for Provoke (pardon my poor coding, I am not sure of the check for all the Widows). All are 100%

 

Spoiler

Add these as STACKING and IGNORING ENHANCEMENTS

 

-100% Range Strength (all affected targets) for 20s

if (source>arch == Tanker) && (target>enttype eq 'critter')

 

-75% Range Strength (all affected targets) for 12s

if ((source>arch == Brute) II (source>arch == Scrapper) ||  (source>arch == Arachnos_Widow)) && (target>enttype eq 'critter')

 

Add these as REPLACES EXISTING EFFECTS

 

41 second Taunt (Mag 4)

if ((source>arch == Tanker) II (source>arch == Brute) ) && (target>enttype eq 'critter')

 

23.1 second Taunt (Mag 4)

if (source>arch == Scrapper) && (target>enttype eq 'critter')

 

26.25 second Taunt (Mag 4)

if (source>arch == Arachnos_Widow) && (target>enttype eq 'critter')

 

Examples to be added to Pacify (again, forgive my poor coding). All are 100%. Again, I'm not sure if my code hits all of the VEATS correctly.

 

Spoiler

Add these as REPLACES EXISTING EFFECT

 

20.5 second Placate (Mag 4)

if (source>arch == Stalker) && (target>enttype eq 'critter')

 

17.5 second Placate (Mag 4)

if ((source>arch == Arachnos_Widow) || (source>arch == Arachnos_Soldier)) && (target>enttype eq 'critter')

 

 

+100% Meter (self only) for 10s after 0.25s

+54 feet StealthRadius PVE (self only) for 10s after 0.25s

+500 feet StealthRadius PVP (self only) for 10s after 0.25s

+20% ToHit (self only) for 10s after 0.25s

+20% Translucency (self only) for 10s after 0.25s

if (source>arch == Arachnos_Soldier) && (target>enttype eq 'critter')

 

 

+100% Meter (self only) for 10s after 0.25s

+150 feet StealthRadius PVE (self only) for 10s after 0.25s

+380 feet StealthRadius PVP (self only) for 10s after 0.25s

+20% Translucency (self only) for 10s after 0.25s

if ((source>arch == Stalker) || (source>arch == Arachnos_Widow)) && (target>enttype eq 'critter')

 

Child:

+100% Meter (self only) for 5s after 0.25s

if ((source>arch == Stalker) || (source>arch == Arachnos_Widow) || (source>arch == Arachnos_Soldier) ) && (target>enttype eq 'critter')

 

Ideally, the other PvP effects could also be changed but I didn't feel like reviewing all of the PvP effects for (target>enttype eq 'player')

I am aware there is a (lingering?) concern about how these effects manifest in PvP, so I'd be fine with not changing the PvP portions of the Presence pool powers.

 

TL; DR: Let's add a little bit of code to the Pacify and Provoke powers so that if a player who already has similar powers in their primary/secondary wants to leverage the Presence power pool, they aren't automatically taking a power that is inferior (in magnitude, effect) to a power from their primary, in addition to whatever penalties there may be to range, recharge time, endurance cost by taking a pool power.

 

I am aware that Provoke has a larger target cap than Confront, but Confront has no ToHit check and I believe has a greater range (in all cases), so this doesn't feel (to me, YMMV) like trying to sneak in an improved form of Confront for Widows and Scrappers.

 

The only other change I would make to the Presence pool is to allow the choice of Intimidate at level 4, and remove the restriction that either Pacify or Provoke be taken as a pre-requisite for Intimidate. I do not think it would be game-breaking to allow level 4 thru 14 players to have access to a single-target Fear attack with a duration of 10.43 seconds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Player2]

In general, pool powers are supposed to be less useful/effective than any primary/secondary counterparts.

 

If you're a stalker, you excel at placating foes... and if you take Pacify, you can get a second chance to do so.  Your primary placate should be better than your follow up attempt.  Same with Confront/Provoke.

 

Pool powers are bonus to add a little more depth and range to your character, but they aren't necessary and don't have to be complimentary.  Taking Pacify or Provoke to get to Intimidate shows a devotion to manipulating others reactions with your presence.  If I want the added defense from Fighting -> Weave, why do I have to take 2 other Fighting powers first?  Why can't I just learn defense instead of punching/kicking/soaking up smashing & lethal damage?  Because it's a prerequisite; you learn lesser things before you get to the good stuff.

[tidge]

46 minutes ago, Player2 said:

In general, pool powers are supposed to be less useful/effective than any primary/secondary counterparts.

 

I agree with this, and per my proposal the Presence power pools would still be less useful and effective than the primary/secondary counterparts. The primary powers have better recharge times (both options are generally bad for %proc, if anyone is thinking about those), and IIRC the pool powers cost more endurance and have a shorter range than any of the primary/secondaries. Of course I mentioned the lack of a necessary ToHit check for the primary/secondary Taunts... I'm not sure about the Placates, but I know the Presence pool does require a ToHit for Pacify.

 

The number of targets consideration is a bit of a wash: Pacify is always single target, Placate is not. Confront is always a single target whereas Provoke has a chance of hitting 5.

[tidge]

I feel like responding to a couple of other points that are tangential to my request, yet since they were introduced...

 

1 hour ago, Player2 said:

Pool powers are bonus to add a little more depth and range to your character, but they aren't necessary and don't have to be complimentary.  Taking Pacify or Provoke to get to Intimidate shows a devotion to manipulating others reactions with your presence.  If I want the added defense from Fighting -> Weave, why do I have to take 2 other Fighting powers first?  Why can't I just learn defense instead of punching/kicking/soaking up smashing & lethal damage?  Because it's a prerequisite; you learn lesser things before you get to the good stuff.

 

My argument isn't about "I want the good stuff and not the early picks", it is

 

3 hours ago, tidge said:

TL; DR: Let's add a little bit of code to the Pacify and Provoke powers so that if a player who already has similar powers in their primary/secondary wants to leverage the Presence power pool, they aren't automatically taking a power that is inferior (in magnitude, effect) to a power from their primary, in addition to whatever penalties there may be to range, recharge time, endurance cost by taking a pool power.

 

A player that wants Invoke Panic would still have to take two other power choices from the Presence pool, just like the limitations for every other pool. Thinking I am arguing against this is a complete misreading of what I wrote.

 

There is a LOT of direct synergy among the powers of the Fighting pool, as well as indirect synergy. Direct: MOAR smashing in the attacks, Indirect in that you want to stand and fight you get some toggles that help with that. Let's also not ignore the existence of some excellent global enhancement pieces that can get slotted in those powers and the toggles never even have to be turned on! But I digress.

 

The only real synergy in the Presence pool is that Intimidate and Invoke Panic have the potential to stack. The other powers offer no synergy amongst themselves, and as I see it offer radically different approaches to being used in PvE combat. "Powers are not balanced around IO", yet I feel obligated to point out that there are only Two Threat Enhancement pieces which contain an Accuracy element (needed for Pacify and Provoke), and those two pieces are in two different sets. There is also now a D-Sync, but that is a late addition and an expensive one!

 

The Presence pool powers of Intimidate and Invoke Panic are already coded to give extra benefits to Dominators (based only on the AT), per City of Data.

 

[Ghost]

I am honestly confused - why is there hidden content in a suggestion?

[tidge]

13 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I am honestly confused - why is there hidden content in a suggestion?

 

I did this to explicity avoid a wall of text. The first block is my thinking about what I see as the defect (which may or may not be relevant to the suggestion). The other two blocks are meant to mimic the code, at least as it is represented in City of Data.

 

Not everyone looks at the City of Data representation; I wanted to include it mostly to demonstrate (a) it is possible and (b) I actually looked at multiple powers when considering making a suggestion.