AE: How to get Max XP from your custom mobs?

[OldTimeRocker]

OK, AE level designing experts.  I need your help! I am working on an S&L farm for my 50s...

 

On the screen below, do I drag the "Experience Value" slider all the way to the right to increase Experience Gained to max, or all the way to the left?  

(I want the Max XP possible from each mob defeated)

 

Per the help dialog, it appears that "hard" will give the best xp. But I have to include a ranged attack to crank it up (boo!). I was wanting to exclude ranged so that the mobs would get closer to me to feel the wrath of my AoEs.  But alas, if I want the most XP, that looks like it ain't happening.

(see second screenshot)

 

I like farms with "No EBs" since they are quicker to clear.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  However, what about farms that also exclude Bosses? Is it worth it, or does the XP gain drop too much to make it a poor design choice?  I'm not a min/maxer and stats aren't my specialty, but in the end I do want to make a practical design choice.  

 

Anyways, your insights & thoughts are appreciated!

 

OTR

 

 

[cranebump]

Melee critters will default to 40% if they don't include a ranged attack. Something like SS will give them access to "Hurl" to cover that gap. Unfortunately, something like Claws doesn't have that. For myself, I'd activate "Throwing Knives" anyway, since, if they're set to melee, they'll default to that when the players close the range gap. Either that, or you make their secondary a ranged Lethal (I'm thinking basic Arrow attacks here).

 

Bear in mind, I'm not any sort of authority on designing farm mishes. I do know fire farm critters have some ranged built in so they'll return 100% XP, and do little harm (if any) to a Fire Farming Tank. Assuming the players are running with high S/L resistance (and why wouldn't they, right?), they should still be fine engaging with critters who have throwing knives and the like. Plus a farm Tank with dedicated Taunt can just drag them in anyway (I would think - again, not an expert on farms [but I have designed a ton of critters).

 

Summary: I'd just give the mobs a ranged attack. S/L Farmers should be built to handle it. 

[OldTimeRocker]

17 minutes ago, cranebump said:

Melee critters will default to 40% if they don't include a ranged attack. Something like SS will give them access to "Hurl" to cover that gap. Unfortunately, something like Claws doesn't have that. For myself, I'd activate "Throwing Knives" anyway, since, if they're set to melee, they'll default to that when the players close the range gap. Either that, or you make their secondary a ranged Lethal (I'm thinking basic Arrow attacks here).

<snip!>

 

Thanks Crane! I appreciate the quick reply. 

 

So, which way should that slider move for custom mobs to get Max XP possible? 

And do you have any thoughts on "Include bosses" or "Don't include bosses" for quicker map clears?

Does that hurt overall xp gain/drops?

 

My intent is to both 1.) Increase XP gain, and 2.) Speed-up map clearing. 

But I don't want to that increased speed to have an adverse effect on xp gain & drops.

I figure that there's got to be a delicate balance achieved at some setting.

 

Thanks,

 

OTR

 

[OldTimeRocker]

3 hours ago, cranebump said:

Melee critters will default to 40% if they don't include a ranged attack. Something like SS will give them access to "Hurl" to cover that gap. Unfortunately, something like Claws doesn't have that. For myself, I'd activate "Throwing Knives" anyway, since, if they're set to melee, they'll default to that when the players close the range gap. Either that, or you make their secondary a ranged Lethal (I'm thinking basic Arrow attacks here)...

 

So I did this: 

 

I began adding powers (starting with the throwing knives, as you suggested) until the XP made it to 100%, then I moved the slider all the way to the right to level 50. 

I'm assuming that this is the best possible XP to get from the toon when you do this.

 

I would still love to hear from someone who knows what the downside is for not including Bosses - only Minions & LTs - in a mission.

If you wouldn't recommend it, why?

 

I'm wanting to create a "tanker-friendly" mission that would allow tanks to pseudo-farm, solo; since they don't deal as much damage as brutes, I was wondering if removing bosses from the mob group would help them progress at a reasonable pace.

 

Thanks!

 

OTR

[Frozen Burn]

24 minutes ago, OldTimeRocker said:

 

So I did this: 

 

I began adding powers (starting with the throwing knives, as you suggested) until the XP made it to 100%, then I moved the slider all the way to the right to level 50. 

I'm assuming that this is the best possible XP to get from the toon when you do this.

 

I would still love to hear from someone who knows what the downside is for not including Bosses - only Minions & LTs - in a mission.

If you wouldn't recommend it, why?

 

I'm wanting to create a "tanker-friendly" mission that would allow tanks to pseudo-farm, solo; since they don't deal as much damage as brutes, I was wondering if removing bosses from the mob group would help them progress at a reasonable pace.

 

Thanks!

 

OTR

 

Hi.  Yes, critters having a ranged attack required for full XP is for the very reason that you are not wanting it - mobs will just rush into your PBAOEs for easy kills.  Devs are against that, hence the the requirement if you want full XP.  Just putting in one ranged attack is good enough and typically, mobs will still close in on you after they use that ranged attack.

 

As for drop rates, the wiki says this:

 

For recipes:

• Minion = 2.666667%
• Lieutenant/Sniper = 5.333333%
• Boss/Elite Boss = 7.999999%
• Archvillain = either 100% or 0%, depending on the AV

For Invention Salvage:

• Minion = 8%
• Lieutenant/Sniper = 10.64%
• Boss/Elite Boss = 25%
• Archvillain = either never or 43.22%, depending on the AV

There seems to be no Min/Lt/Boss level drop rate info for anything else, except Incarnate shards which are assumed (by testing and not by stated Dev facts):  Min = 1 in 1000, LTs = 1 in 150, Bosses = 1 in 50.  

 

So, you do get higher drop rates for bosses.  Whether it's worth it to you or not to add them into your group is up to you and haw fast you want to go, and how fast you can kill them.  

[OldTimeRocker]

18 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

Hi.  Yes, critters having a ranged attack required for full XP is for the very reason that you are not wanting it - mobs will just rush into your PBAOEs for easy kills.  Devs are against that, hence the the requirement if you want full XP.  Just putting in one ranged attack is good enough and typically, mobs will still close in on you after they use that ranged attack.

 

As for drop rates, the wiki says this:

 

For recipes:

• Minion = 2.666667%
• Lieutenant/Sniper = 5.333333%
• Boss/Elite Boss = 7.999999%
• Archvillain = either 100% or 0%, depending on the AV

For Invention Salvage:

• Minion = 8%
• Lieutenant/Sniper = 10.64%
• Boss/Elite Boss = 25%
• Archvillain = either never or 43.22%, depending on the AV

There seems to be no Min/Lt/Boss level drop rate info for anything else, except Incarnate shards which are assumed (by testing and not by stated Dev facts):  Min = 1 in 1000, LTs = 1 in 150, Bosses = 1 in 50.  

 

So, you do get higher drop rates for bosses.  Whether it's worth it to you or not to add them into your group is up to you and haw fast you want to go, and how fast you can kill them.  

 

Thanks, Frozen! This is very helpful.  Makes me curious, now, as to what the drop rate for Incarnate Threads are, but I'm cool with I've seen.  I see fairly frequent Incarnate Thread messages popping while I'm farming.

 

Appreciate it!

 

OTR

[PhotriusPyrelus]

23 hours ago, OldTimeRocker said:

I was wanting to exclude ranged so that the mobs would get closer to me to feel the wrath of my AoEs.  But alas, if I want the most XP, that looks like it ain't happening.

Since this is AE and you're designing the map, can't you just put some cover nearby each pull and LoS the mobs to you?  I've never really messed with making maps in AE, though, so I don't know how much control you have over positioning of enemy spawns.

[OldTimeRocker]

48 minutes ago, PhotriusPyrelus said:

Since this is AE and you're designing the map, can't you just put some cover nearby each pull and LoS the mobs to you?  I've never really messed with making maps in AE, though, so I don't know how much control you have over positioning of enemy spawns.

 

Thanks for replying, Photrius. The ranged attacks weren't really a problem, I was just trying to figure out how to increase the XP gain.  Once I realized ranged had to be included to increase XP, I added "Throwing Knives" to the mix as CraneBump suggested.  From there, I just customized power choices for each set of NPCS (Minions, Lieutenants & Bosses) until the percentage of XP reached 100% for each one, then stopped. 

 

Since Frozen has now provided helpful info on drops, my biggest question is: do I want to exclude bosses or not?  I might make a version of my map without bosses to make it a more viable solution for tankers, but then also have a version which includes them for brutes & such. 

 

I did end up adding an Ally (a fire/kin) to help increase the tanker's DPS output.  The "follow" capability of an ally in an AE mission though is frustrating at best (just as with rescue missions).  Not decided yet if it's worth it!  Though she is fun to have tagging along for buffs & power boosts.

 

OTR

[Maelwys]

On 6/3/2024 at 3:16 PM, OldTimeRocker said:

OK, AE level designing experts.  I need your help! I am working on an S&L farm for my 50s...

 

On the screen below, do I drag the "Experience Value" slider all the way to the right to increase Experience Gained to max, or all the way to the left?  

(I want the Max XP possible from each mob defeated)

 

Per the help dialog, it appears that "hard" will give the best xp. But I have to include a ranged attack to crank it up (boo!). I was wanting to exclude ranged so that the mobs would get closer to me to feel the wrath of my AoEs.  But alas, if I want the most XP, that looks like it ain't happening.

(see second screenshot)

 

I like farms with "No EBs" since they are quicker to clear.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  However, what about farms that also exclude Bosses? Is it worth it, or does the XP gain drop too much to make it a poor design choice?  I'm not a min/maxer and stats aren't my specialty, but in the end I do want to make a practical design choice.  

 

Anyways, your insights & thoughts are appreciated!

 

OTR

I'm not one of the folk that live + breathe AE; but I have made several custom-damage farming mission arcs and played around quite a bit with the settings trying to optimally tweak things.

So a few observations/rules of thumb that may be worth considering.

+ Do NOT use the automatic easy/hard/etc. mode selections. Always use Custom.
+ The general idea is to get "100% standard experience at level 50" critters without giving them any abilities that are very detrimental to the character trying to farm them.
+ You can choose primary/secondary powerset combinations that are not valid for regular player characters; such as a melee damage Scrapper powerset plus a melee damage Dominator powerset (and this can be a good method of making custom enemies that don't have much in the way of damage mitigation and have a lot of low-damage attacks!)
+ Different powersets are capable of contributing more "standard exp" than others. Some combinations are simply not capable of 100% standard exp at level 50 for Bosses etc.
+ Steer clear of debuffs; especially attacks with "-Defense" in them.
+ Steer clear of buffs; especially resistance buffs, +ToHit buffs and long-duration clicky "godmode" powers.
+ CC powers like Stun/Hold/Sleep/etc? If you're a Tank/Scrapper then you probably won't care... but if you're a Blaster then you might want to skip them.
+ Self-Rez that don't apply intangible can be OK as fighting the same mob again will give extra exp/reward - think olden-days Freakshow "Dreck" map farming.
+ In general; if you want enemies that run into Melee then pick ONE ranged attack from their primary or secondary powerset; because after this attack gets used if they have no other ranged attacks available to chain with it they'll queue up a different (melee) attack and try to hug you.
+ It can be worth giving enemies MORE melee attacks even whenever they're already at "100% standard exp" - as if you are surrounded by critters who each only have one heavy-hitting melee attack available then they're always going to use that particular attack on you... but if they also have five other piddly minor-damage attacks available then chances are that they'll not all choose to simultaneously hit you with that heavy-damage attack.
+ Do not give enemy mobs flight capabilities. 
+ If you're struggling, give yourself a custom Archvillain NPC ally that has almost no damaging attacks but lots of buffs/debuffs/heals (my personal favourite is a flier with Cold Domination [+Defence bubbles only] and Water Blast [Dehydrate + Whirlpool only]) and set them to follow you with the "Defensive" AI.
+ Map selection is very important. Some maps only allow a few spawns/patrols/allies etc. Classic farming maps include the "small" meteor, "big" meteor and tunnel. Note also that some maps will allow for initial enemy spawns to be within sight of the mission entrance point (so if you're bringing low-level characters to "sit" then they'll be far more likely to die on a meteor map than on a tunnel map!)
+ It's possible to have no regular enemies and the mission complete criteria set to simply clicking a glowie; then after you click that glowie the mission completes and all the ambushes etc. spawn. Doing this allows the "exit mission" button to function as an emergency exit, but prevents you from inviting any extra teammates onto the already-technically-completed mission map.

I'm sure there are plenty of others, but that's all I can currently think of off the top of my head whilst maintenance is running...

In regards to Bosses or no-Bosses; it will make a difference to drops... but chances are that you will also be able to kill more mobs faster if you're not having to mow through all that extra HP. So it can possibly become a wash, depending on your character's farming speed. Personally I prefer staying on a single map  for longer and will therefore tend to include Bosses + EBs; but YMMV! 🙂
 

Edited June 4 by Maelwys

[Frozen Burn]

1 hour ago, OldTimeRocker said:

 

Thanks, Frozen! This is very helpful.  Makes me curious, now, as to what the drop rate for Incarnate Threads are, but I'm cool with I've seen.  I see fairly frequent Incarnate Thread messages popping while I'm farming.

 

Appreciate it!

 

OTR

 

There is currently no information on the drop rate of Threads, but clearly, they drop faster than Shards.  

 

Enhancements DO drop in AE, but also, there is no specific data on the drop rate upon mob defeat.  There is only pre-i27 info on the type of enhancement dropped - before they got rid of Training Origin enhs.  So basically, no current data there either.  

 

And personally, I would include bosses.  Even if it takes twice as long to kill a boss vs. an LT, you get triple the XP - so it's worth it.  (See here for XP tables:  https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Experience)  And... don't dismiss tankers... even they can handle a boss fast enough now.  Just my unsolicited vote.  😄  

[OldTimeRocker]

3 hours ago, Maelwys said:

I'm not one of the folk that live + breathe AE; but I have made several custom-damage farming mission arcs and played around quite a bit with the settings trying to optimally tweak things.

So a few observations/rules of thumb that may be worth considering.

+ Do NOT use the automatic easy/hard/etc. mode selections. Always use Custom.
+ The general idea is to get "100% standard experience at level 50" critters without giving them any abilities that are very detrimental to the character trying to farm them.
+ You can choose primary/secondary powerset combinations that are not valid for regular player characters; such as a melee damage Scrapper powerset plus a melee damage Dominator powerset (and this can be a good method of making custom enemies that don't have much in the way of damage mitigation and have a lot of low-damage attacks!)
+ Different powersets are capable of contributing more "standard exp" than others. Some combinations are simply not capable of 100% standard exp at level 50 for Bosses etc.
+ Steer clear of debuffs; especially attacks with "-Defense" in them.
+ Steer clear of buffs; especially resistance buffs, +ToHit buffs and long-duration clicky "godmode" powers.
+ CC powers like Stun/Hold/Sleep/etc? If you're a Tank/Scrapper then you probably won't care... but if you're a Blaster then you might want to skip them.
+ Self-Rez that don't apply intangible can be OK as fighting the same mob again will give extra exp/reward - think olden-days Freakshow "Dreck" map farming.
+ In general; if you want enemies that run into Melee then pick ONE ranged attack from their primary or secondary powerset; because after this attack gets used if they have no other ranged attacks available to chain with it they'll queue up a different (melee) attack and try to hug you.
+ It can be worth giving enemies MORE melee attacks even whenever they're already at "100% standard exp" - as if you are surrounded by critters who each only have one heavy-hitting melee attack available then they're always going to use that particular attack on you... but if they also have five other piddly minor-damage attacks available then chances are that they'll not all choose to simultaneously hit you with that heavy-damage attack.
+ Do not give enemy mobs flight capabilities. 
+ If you're struggling, give yourself a custom Archvillain NPC ally that has almost no damaging attacks but lots of buffs/debuffs/heals (my personal favourite is a flier with Cold Domination [+Defence bubbles only] and Water Blast [Dehydrate + Whirlpool only]) and set them to follow you with the "Defensive" AI.
+ Map selection is very important. Some maps only allow a few spawns/patrols/allies etc. Classic farming maps include the "small" meteor, "big" meteor and tunnel. Note also that some maps will allow for initial enemy spawns to be within sight of the mission entrance point (so if you're bringing low-level characters to "sit" then they'll be far more likely to die on a meteor map than on a tunnel map!)
+ It's possible to have no regular enemies and the mission complete criteria set to simply clicking a glowie; then after you click that glowie the mission completes and all the ambushes etc. spawn. Doing this allows the "exit mission" button to function as an emergency exit, but prevents you from inviting any extra teammates onto the already-technically-completed mission map.

I'm sure there are plenty of others, but that's all I can currently think of off the top of my head whilst maintenance is running...

In regards to Bosses or no-Bosses; it will make a difference to drops... but chances are that you will also be able to kill more mobs faster if you're not having to mow through all that extra HP. So it can possibly become a wash, depending on your character's farming speed. Personally I prefer staying on a single map  for longer and will therefore tend to include Bosses + EBs; but YMMV! 🙂
 

Fantastic tips, Maelwys!  Thank you so much. I will definitely use this information!

 

OTR

[OldTimeRocker]

2 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

 

There is currently no information on the drop rate of Threads, but clearly, they drop faster than Shards.  

 

Enhancements DO drop in AE, but also, there is no specific data on the drop rate upon mob defeat.  There is only pre-i27 info on the type of enhancement dropped - before they got rid of Training Origin enhs.  So basically, no current data there either.  

 

And personally, I would include bosses.  Even if it takes twice as long to kill a boss vs. an LT, you get triple the XP - so it's worth it.  (See here for XP tables:  https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Experience)  And... don't dismiss tankers... even they can handle a boss fast enough now.  Just my unsolicited vote.  😄  

 

Thanks Frozen. This is awesome info!

I sincerely appreciate it.

 

OTR

[OldTimeRocker]

I would like to thank everyone who's contributed all of the helpful replies to my AE questions. 

I really appreciate it.  I think that this thread may also be helpful to others in the future if they,

too, hop on the AE bandwagon. 

 

Thanks everyone!

 

OTR