Boss Archtype (Alternate MM)

[Klaleara]

I love many of my Support/Controller based Masterminds, but I'd love to have one where its more of a frontline Archtype, instead of in the back masterminding.

Hence why I figured I'd post about "Boss", which is essentially the Dominator version of Mastermind.  Swap out the secondary for Blaster/Scrapper powersets instead, and let us get our hands more dirty.   Swap out the Mastermind offensives with some self-sustain.  Change the Mastermind buff so that instead of buffing the minions, the more Minions that are around the more YOU get buffed.

 

I'd also recommend changing the henchmen buffs to a toggleable aura that will automatically buff your henchmen as long as they are close enough.  Still have to resummon them, but not having to rebuff them will help keep the "Boss" in the action.

 

I'd really appreciate having a full bow or katana with my Ninja's.  Or get the full dual pistols with thugs.  Etcetc

[CrusaderDroid]

It's a fun fantasy, and I like the idea. I just don't think this implementation works - without the support from your secondary, you're left with pets that you can't buff, and unbuffed pets that you can't heal are going to die pretty fast at nearly all levels of content.

 

Worse still, if you want to keep the pets up as they're dying, you're losing time getting animation locked into resummoning your pets. While you're in that animation, you're dealing 0 damage with your blast set. With support sets, you have large cooldowns and fire-and-forget effects, so you don't really take a hit to your effective output.

 

You basically need to give the AT entirely new pets that are significantly more self-sufficient to make up for your inability to support your pets. That's significantly more work than changing a few powers here and there. I don't think it's a practical idea, accordingly.

[Rudra]

43 minutes ago, Klaleara said:

I love many of my Support/Controller based Masterminds, but I'd love to have one where its more of a frontline Archtype, instead of in the back masterminding.

A player's Mastermind is as backline support or frontline fighter as the player chooses to make them. For instance, I build all my MMs to stand in the middle of the pack, or team, and fight from there. Yes, all my attacks are ranged, but I tend to favor the melee-focused pets, and being where the action is means I don't have to worry about them running out of Supremacy (too often). If I really wanted to, I could forego the MM's three native attacks and grab some melee attacks from the power pools to further justify my character being in the thick of the fight. And yes, I typically spend most of my time using my MM's native attacks in a fight, even on large teams. My auras and buffs/debuffs keep me from having to spam heals or other supports until things go to hell, at which point I switch to rapid support as fast as my powers charge until things settle down to where I can resume using attacks again.

 

46 minutes ago, Klaleara said:

Change the Mastermind buff so that instead of buffing the minions, the more Minions that are around the more YOU get buffed.

There are two problems with this. The first being that the MM's henchmen pets already do buff the MM, but only while in Bodyguard Mode. (Though some pets like the Protector Bots also buff you with shields.) The second is a 2-parter. The MM's Supremacy buff doesn't buff a pet's survival, it buffs the pet's damage and chance to hit, and henchman class pets are much more vulnerable (and weaker) than pet class pets. So you would be handicapping the new AT's henchman class pets. And with so many pets available to the new AT, odds are, those pets are still going to be your main source of damage.

 

52 minutes ago, Klaleara said:

I'd also recommend changing the henchmen buffs to a toggleable aura that will automatically buff your henchmen as long as they are close enough.  Still have to resummon them, but not having to rebuff them will help keep the "Boss" in the action.

Considering the devs are opposed to granting MMs this, I doubt they will agree to grant a MM variant this either. At least not if you want to retain the number of pets MMs get.

[megaericzero]

TLDR: The secondary should probably be a modified armor set instead of an offensive one.

 

--

 

Changing the henchmen to not be the damage dealers would make them anywhere from annoying to insufferable. Damage is damage and can be dispensed indiscriminately; if they're changed to support or CC, they won't use the right de/buffs when you want or on who you want unless they are watered-down to buff totems. If you've played Kingdom Hearts or at least heard of Donald Duck's reputation, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

As Crusader points out, you'd need to be the one supporting your henchmen's survivability more directly or else you'll just be constantly re-summoning. Heck, MMs have trouble with that already so project that onto henchmen with little to no support and you have a firing squad that consistently dies after their opening salvo.

 

Hence the suggestion for the secondary to be a tweaked armor set. Give the archetype an inherent and rework their power sets to be more frontline-focused to go with it. For instance, perhaps an inherent that's a hybrid reverse-bodyguard/fury with a meter that builds as you absorb hits for your henchmen and "inspires" them with +DMG.

 

From there, tweak the sets for balance, flavor, and synergy. For instance: swap the ranged attack powers with melee powers instead; reduce the number of powers granted with upgrades, potentially even drop one or both and give you more personal attacks; rework some armor powers into AOEs that benefit both you and your henchmen (just spitballing: maybe change the self-heal most armor sets get into a PBAOE heal - so Healing Flames becomes a cross between it and Warmth that is both your self heal but also brings your henchmen's health back up as well; maybe trade a power in each armor set for a Grant Cover-style protection for your henchmen).

 

This isn't as all-in on offense as the original suggestion but I think it still has the spirit you're looking for.

[ThatGuyCDude]

I had a similar idea, only mine was using Armor sets for the secondary instead of the Melee sets (heh, MegaEricZero beat me to the reply).  The mechanic to make it function was a bodyguard-reversal: the player takes a portion of the damage FOR their pets (as a pseudopet hit that has to roll to hit again), thereby making them more durable by funneling the damage over their own resistance/defense.

A fun way to test these kinds of new power selection mashups is with the Mission Architect: if you make a boss-style mob with the powerset combo you're planning and then flag them as an ally, you can try to have them clear missions by themselves (you stand there or stealth) to see how they perform.

[Klaleara]

14 minutes ago, ThatGuyCDude said:

I had a similar idea, only mine was using Armor sets for the secondary instead of the Melee sets (heh, MegaEricZero beat me to the reply).  The mechanic to make it function was a bodyguard-reversal: the player takes a portion of the damage FOR their pets (as a pseudopet hit that has to roll to hit again), thereby making them more durable by funneling the damage over their own resistance/defense.

A fun way to test these kinds of new power selection mashups is with the Mission Architect: if you make a boss-style mob with the powerset combo you're planning and then flag them as an ally, you can try to have them clear missions by themselves (you stand there or stealth) to see how they perform.

 

This is probably closer, absolutely.  I personally would still want blaster powers though, maybe just swap out some of the damage increases for armor?  Less burst damage but more survivability.

 

Having the player take a portion of the damage henchmen take is a great idea though, full approval there.

 

Idk how to properly give the character MORE ranged attacks without breaking it all.  But damn do I want an MM with more dual pistol attacks lol.

[Rudra]

34 minutes ago, Klaleara said:

Idk how to properly give the character MORE ranged attacks without breaking it all.  But damn do I want an MM with more dual pistol attacks lol.

The only way I can see the devs giving a MM AT more native attacks for the MM character to use is at the expense of their pets. That is the point of having so many pets, they are your damage. So if you want your character to be doing the damage, you're going to lose pets for it. (That is part of the reason why MM native attacks are so much weaker than other ATs.)

 

Edit: One thing you can do currently? While it won't give you more Dual Pistol attacks, you can build up your native attacks more. On my Ninja/Dark MM, my Snap Shot recharges every 0.91 seconds on a 1 second cast time attack and my Aimed Shot recharges every 1.4 seconds on a 1 second cast time attack. Even my Fistful of Arrows recharges every 2.78 seconds. So I can constantly be firing Snap Shots and Aimed shots while throwing in the odd Fistful of Arrows when I want. While Thugs' attacks are slightly slower for recharge, you can still do the same thing. Bear in mind this is without Hasten (I never take that power) and without focusing on recharge. (For instance, Snap Shot is only 4-slotted and only one of those enhancements, the Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge one, is a recharge enhancement.)

 

Edited July 24 by Rudra

[megaericzero]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

So if you want your character to be doing the damage, you're going to lose pets for it.

What about trading upgrade power(s) and/or the set-specific utility (t7) for more personal attacks? In the case of the upgrade(s), this has the benefit of reducing the number of attacks the henchmen get, presumably reducing their DPS as a tradeoff for increasing the player's without having to cut down on the actual headcount. It also lets MM's have their henchmen grow with them as a unique bullet point in contrast to this hypothetical new archetype not having that.

[Rudra]

50 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

4 hours ago, Rudra said:

So if you want your character to be doing the damage, you're going to lose pets for it.

What about trading upgrade power(s) and/or the set-specific utility (t7) for more personal attacks? In the case of the upgrade(s), this has the benefit of reducing the number of attacks the henchmen get, presumably reducing their DPS as a tradeoff for increasing the player's without having to cut down on the actual headcount. It also lets MM's have their henchmen grow with them as a unique bullet point in contrast to this hypothetical new archetype not having that.

I'm willing to bet no. Controllers and Dominators get pets that without upgrades get as many attacks as Mastermind henchman class pets (edit: after their upgrades. They just don't get the buff powers some pets in specific power sets get). So I don't think it is the number of attacks per pet. I believe it is the number of pets able to simultaneously attack targets while your character attacks, heals, buffs, debuffs, or whatever. So if this proposed AT were to be made and this proposed AT got more native attacks, especially if a full secondary of Blaster powers like the author wants, then pets are going to take a major hit. And one of those is most likely going to be numbers of pets.

Edited July 24 by Rudra

[megaericzero]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

I'm willing to bet no. Controllers and Dominators get pets that without upgrades get as many attacks as Mastermind henchman class pets (edit: after their upgrades. They just don't get the buff powers some pets in specific power sets get). So I don't think it is the number of attacks per pet. I believe it is the number of pets able to simultaneously attack targets while your character attacks, heals, buffs, debuffs, or whatever. So if this proposed AT were to be made and this proposed AT got more native attacks, especially if a full secondary of Blaster powers like the author wants, then pets are going to take a major hit. And one of those is most likely going to be numbers of pets.

Right, sorry. I forgot when responding that the original suggestion was with an attack set as the secondary; my response was under the assumption the secondary was armor. Please disregard.