Necro/Marine Fold Space and Shifting Tides

[Meknomancer]

Fold Space is hitting everything without fail, other than av's or gm's. Shifting Tides has 0 to hit slotted i just tossed in 5 rags for the recharge bonus. Its amazing. 0 misses ever.

 

So i'm wondering if its possible to get more recharge in, power of the depths makes you near unkillable as long as that absorbs on and it got me wondering how to get it up more often. Wouldn't hurt soul extraction too. 

 

The more i play /marine on mm's the more i feel like it was made for them specifically, giving the pets that extra hp makes a world of difference and you can run shifting tides on one without having to worry about it dropping and it'll permanently have 10+ stacks. I'd like to know how fenders/corrs/trollers run theirs and if it needs recharge slotted if you have to toss it on specific targets every mob and how long it takes to recharge. I've found its only a real issue going up elevators when i've had to wait near 8 seconds to reapply it to a pet. 

 

If power of the depths can be made perma or close too then defence builds seem to become irrelevant, at least i haven't tried one yet although i would like to get web envelope in just for those annoying flying mobs. So far i've run mercs/thugs/necro with levi/soul/mu and my only deaths have come from knockbacks where i didn't have 10+ points slotted or when i forgot to hit power of the depths.

 

Looking for more recharge. Mostly for fold space.

NECRO MARINE - Mastermind (Necromancy - Marine Affinity).mbd

[redshirt]

Your build looks pretty solid to me. I moved a couple slots around in order to slot in 5x Ice Mistral's in Tide Pool to gain some acc and recharge. You could also consider switching those slots to Panacea in Soothing Wave instead, but the +2.5% gain in recharge may not be worth losing the other Ice Mistral's bonuses.

 

I changed Whitecap to be 5x Obliteration + FoTG -res but the loss of the damage proc goodness hurts and between that and the Recharge hurting -res proc chance it probably isn't worth it. Between that and the new Tide Pool slotting you do gain +16% global acc, which is kinda nice I guess. It does mean a 4% overcap on S/L res so there's probably more I could have done there.

 

I went around the build adding boosters to +5 things, which helps overall. You used enough HOs and Winter IOs that I didn't think that price was an issue. I dropped an Ecto from Fold Space in favor of a +5 Recharge. HOs in the build are now +3, too.

 

Changed the Damage enh in Shifting Tides to the Chance for Knockdown. Might as well get the occasional KD instead of being overslotted for Damage on a low damage power.

 

The problem is that we're at the point of diminishing returns with regard to the recharge cap (400%). Power of the Depths at 240s with 60s duration needs every bit of that. Fold Space is now 5 seconds off its cap of 30 seconds of recharge. Since you're at the 5x limit for 10% recharge bonuses, the main things that would help would be LoTG 7.5%s but you'd have to pick powers to drop for them. Maybe cut Brine or Super Speed for Vengeance? Losing a good -res for hard targets or 4 pts of KB prot respectively, everything is a tradeoff.

 

I considered changing the Alpha slot to either Agility or Spiritual for the Recharge, but they are serious downgrades from Musculature imo. You lose damage, -tohit everywhere, and all the proc rates from your powers. The gains are true perma-hasten and PoTD and Fold Space being ~2s off capped recharge instead of 8 and 4, respectively.

 

Ageless Destiny (Radial to for debuff resists) to get there? You didn't have one selected that I saw. Again, understanding the inherent issues there with exemping or wanting Barrier instead to buff the minions. There's a potential argument for Clarion Core to cover mez protection for you and your army. Radial for the +Special Power Boost could be a fun trick too, but loses it being perma. Rebirth seems less worth it due to existing regen slotting, capped pet HP and Soothing Wave.

 

Overall though I like what you're doing here. I'll probably steal a lot of it for my own Necro/Marine. Do you find that all the regen slotting in Enchant Undead and Dark Empowerment is worth it? I suspect that the pets being at their HP caps really helps there. Any thoughts on using Support Hybrid instead for the doublebuff? I'll give your selection (Melee Core) a try for self surviveability. 

 

tl;dr - Boost ALL the things! Choose your destiny! 🙂

 

P.S. I've attached a second build "- Web" that uses Tough to maintain resists while fitting Web Envelope.

NECRO MARINE - Mastermind (Necromancy - Marine Affinity).mbd

NECRO MARINE - Mastermind (Necromancy - Marine Affinity) - Web.mbd

Edited August 7 by redshirt
Added Web Envelope build.

[Meknomancer]

Looks good 5 seconds off perma hasten in build 1 and 3 seconds off in build 2 for only a 5% drop in slow res. I would skip the dmg proc in tide pool, more and more i find its better to be able to drop it without aggroing the mob and i'm trying it with a single slow/end from mistrals and a hammi slow/rech/end to see the difference.

 

Everything is boosted, i'm running a t4 barrier with musc radial. The loss in damage from switching alphas would have to be made up by rearranging pet slotting. If the 2nd build could find a place for scorp sd i'd be sold, the slight loss of s/l resists for that defence would be a great trade off but i'm not giving up ss and the kb protection for it. Council mobs have gone from my fav steam roll/easy inf kills to my nemesis, even the lieutenants do enough kb now to keep you on your back if you drop below 10 points protection.

 

Dropping brine would make a difference, right now it can solo gm's and av's with the stacked -res and -hp, i'm not sure how much of a difference it would make giving it up but i bet it would be noticeable. This is doubly true when running the labyrinth where you have multiple eb's/mob with massive amounts of hp.

 

Whitecap. Right now it'll hit a mob and fire off multiple procs leaving minions with nothing but a sliver of hp. I'd have to think about the damage tradeoff for a 5% recharge bonus. If i had scorp sd i wouldn't hesitate i'd gain 12.5% recharge and be able to take the extra inc damage without worrying too much. 

 

Do the pets need the regen? That depends what you run. I did an aeon and it was enough to keep them upright in the fights against av's standing in the lava pits without me having to use soothing wave. I think it makes a big difference on harder content especially solo but probably not needed in teams so much.

 

I took melee hybrid over support after running support on the mercs/marine and finding myself mid mob perma mezzed and the insp tray empty of break frees and the sheer willpower accolade on recharge, another player advised swapping it in and its been worth it so far, especially as necro spends all their time in melee and whitecap puts you there. 

[Warshades]

I don't normally play MMs, but I did want to try necro/marine as it seems to really fit perfectly together. I tend to build more for survival on most things that I play so I went for Scorp Shield to try and get s/l/e def to soft cap and get as much resistance from set bonuses as I could. PotD is nearly perma without factoring in force feedback proc from Whitecap. If you really want Brine, you could swap Power Boost for it. I didn't go for Fold Space or Web Envelope as most of the times mobs are on the floor with very few exceptions and I don't want to sacrifice other aspects of the build for those minor exceptions. You could adjust some things to get energy defense to 45% if you wanted to, but I'd likely run this build with barrier which will add an extra 5%.

 

The build has a bit less recharge debuff resist, but you could swap one of the Unbreakable Guard sets for Glad Armor, take out the KB proc from SS, and 2 slot Boxing with Winter set to get to 50% recharge resist.

Mastermind (Necromancy - Marine Affinity).mbd

[Meknomancer]

19 hours ago, Warshades said:

I don't normally play MMs, but I did want to try necro/marine as it seems to really fit perfectly together. I tend to build more for survival on most things that I play so I went for Scorp Shield to try and get s/l/e def to soft cap and get as much resistance from set bonuses as I could. PotD is nearly perma without factoring in force feedback proc from Whitecap. If you really want Brine, you could swap Power Boost for it. I didn't go for Fold Space or Web Envelope as most of the times mobs are on the floor with very few exceptions and I don't want to sacrifice other aspects of the build for those minor exceptions. You could adjust some things to get energy defense to 45% if you wanted to, but I'd likely run this build with barrier which will add an extra 5%.

 

The build has a bit less recharge debuff resist, but you could swap one of the Unbreakable Guard sets for Glad Armor, take out the KB proc from SS, and 2 slot Boxing with Winter set to get to 50% recharge resist.

Mastermind (Necromancy - Marine Affinity).mbd 43.52 kB · 0 downloads

 

The more i play /marine the more i find brine essential....on corrs and trollers. On the mm's you can get away with skipping it but if does make a noticeable difference, especially on a demons mm where you get stacked sources of -res you from corruption/lash/crack whip/whitecap/brine.

 

The build looks great, only things i'd change are the alpha- damage on t1+t2 pets looks low and the unbreakable guard in tough, that may as well go in toroidal/enchant undead for an extra bonus. And the performance shifter in toroidal, a single boosted end mod seems to be more effective for some reason, i can only assume because its a clicky and not a passive or toggle. I like procs in it but i can see why you'd want full AT set in soul extract. And i'd swap the end red in tide pool for a slow or slow/end piece, the slow really helps out in preventing mobs from escaping. Mostly insignificant changes.

 

I've been running mine with roughly the same amount of kb protection 10+ points. Not enough on resist builds where a couple of mag 6 knocks stack up and hit you. Maybe too much/not needed on a defensive build where your getting hit much less. But i do notice the lack of slow resistance, it gets really easy to start spamming whitecap as an opener into a mob before dropping tide pool on it while the enemies are getting to their feet only to have them drop tar patch or some other nasty slow effect and find myself glued before i have time to hop back out.

 

Finished rolling every mm primary with marine and running a t4 barrier on all of them. Necro/Mercs/Demons/Bots are top tier with it, Ninjas and Thugs just below but dying way more often. Beasts aren't completely awful. The set really does feel like its tailor made specifically for masterminds over the other AT's that got it.    

[Crysis]

28 minutes ago, Meknomancer said:

 

The more i play /marine the more i find brine essential....on corrs and trollers. On the mm's you can get away with skipping it but if does make a noticeable difference, especially on a demons mm where you get stacked sources of -res you from corruption/lash/crack whip/whitecap/brine.

 

The build looks great, only things i'd change are the alpha- damage on t1+t2 pets looks low and the unbreakable guard in tough, that may as well go in toroidal/enchant undead for an extra bonus. And the performance shifter in toroidal, a single boosted end mod seems to be more effective for some reason, i can only assume because its a clicky and not a passive or toggle. I like procs in it but i can see why you'd want full AT set in soul extract. And i'd swap the end red in tide pool for a slow or slow/end piece, the slow really helps out in preventing mobs from escaping. Mostly insignificant changes.

 

I've been running mine with roughly the same amount of kb protection 10+ points. Not enough on resist builds where a couple of mag 6 knocks stack up and hit you. Maybe too much/not needed on a defensive build where your getting hit much less. But i do notice the lack of slow resistance, it gets really easy to start spamming whitecap as an opener into a mob before dropping tide pool on it while the enemies are getting to their feet only to have them drop tar patch or some other nasty slow effect and find myself glued before i have time to hop back out.

 

Finished rolling every mm primary with marine and running a t4 barrier on all of them. Necro/Mercs/Demons/Bots are top tier with it, Ninjas and Thugs just below but dying way more often. Beasts aren't completely awful. The set really does feel like its tailor made specifically for masterminds over the other AT's that got it.    

For most MM’s today, KB protection Mag 12 is almost required against Council and other mobs.  I generally can easily get 9-12 with procs without sacrificing much elsewhere, especially w/Marine typical builds and slotting.

[Meknomancer]

On 9/3/2024 at 3:50 PM, Crysis said:

For most MM’s today, KB protection Mag 12 is almost required against Council and other mobs.  I generally can easily get 9-12 with procs without sacrificing much elsewhere, especially w/Marine typical builds and slotting.

 

2 wolves use hurl with mag 6.67 kb. It stacks. 2 Archons use cones. Mag 9.97 kb. I haven't checked the new grenade numbers but they are high. Nowadays a Moonfire on +2/8 or higher will kb a lot of my older toons and keep them immob'd. They all use combat jump or hover+evasive and the Archons can still pin them. Its kind of strange only having this issue low levels and only since the council upgrades but then i assume most of those older builds are running enough defence to super reflex their way out of most situations.

[Warshades]

Quote

The build looks great, only things i'd change are the alpha- damage on t1+t2 pets looks low and the unbreakable guard in tough, that may as well go in toroidal/enchant undead for an extra bonus. And the performance shifter in toroidal, a single boosted end mod seems to be more effective for some reason, i can only assume because its a clicky and not a passive or toggle. I like procs in it but i can see why you'd want full AT set in soul extract. And i'd swap the end red in tide pool for a slow or slow/end piece, the slow really helps out in preventing mobs from escaping. Mostly insignificant changes.

 

Appreciate the input. I'll try those changes out and check on the difference it makes. I think it will probably be better overall to use musculature for the improved damage compared to trying to make PotD perma with spiritual (it wouldn't be very far off at ~10 seconds). Thx for catching that Unbreakable Guard, I was playing around a lot with the final slots and missed that I placed it in tough. Will also try out Brine in place of PB.

 

Quote

I've been running mine with roughly the same amount of kb protection 10+ points. Not enough on resist builds where a couple of mag 6 knocks stack up and hit you. Maybe too much/not needed on a defensive build where your getting hit much less. But i do notice the lack of slow resistance, it gets really easy to start spamming whitecap as an opener into a mob before dropping tide pool on it while the enemies are getting to their feet only to have them drop tar patch or some other nasty slow effect and find myself glued before i have time to hop back out.

 

I haven't felt a big need for more KB protection, but again that may be because of the defensive build and the KB attacks just not stacking very often before my pets deal with the minions and lts. I also don't recall if I specifically tested against Council or not. Haven't done as much testing against debuff heavy mobs to see how much of an impact the lack of slow resist is, but I may need to test that out more when I get the chance.

 

Quote

Finished rolling every mm primary with marine and running a t4 barrier on all of them. Necro/Mercs/Demons/Bots are top tier with it

 

Out of curiosity, did you find that one of those 4 pairs best with marine or was it more of a trade off among them? Damage is the one area that felt a little bit lacking on my necro/marine, but that may also be because of the spiritual alpha I had when testing initially (and I don't really have other MMs to compare as I never play MMs all that much). . The additional stacks of -res from demons sounds like an interesting combo.

[Meknomancer]

On 9/7/2024 at 1:27 AM, Warshades said:

Out of curiosity, did you find that one of those 4 pairs best with marine or was it more of a trade off among them? Damage is the one area that felt a little bit lacking on my necro/marine, but that may also be because of the spiritual alpha I had when testing initially (and I don't really have other MMs to compare as I never play MMs all that much). . The additional stacks of -res from demons sounds like an interesting combo.

 

Mercs will always be my number 1. But they were my number 1 before they got buffed and actually became joint number 1 with necro. Its always easier on ranged pets than melee pets so mercs and bots are always easier to play, die less and need resummoning less. 

 

Damage wise i think demons are pushing for top spot when combined with /marine. Both primary and secondary are stacking -resistance although it does mean taking some personal attacks. But it is hard to tell when shifting tides and tide pool are basically giving you a full on fulcrum shift on the pets the damage jumps to the point where all mm primaries become top notch dps and the differences are barely noticeable. 

 

I've never taken spiritual as an alpha on an mm so i have 0 experience there. I always take musculature or intuition. Recharge is rarely an issue once the AT sets are split up and the luck of the gambler 7.5% slotted. And you can always take an FF+Rech in whitecap which will fire off regularly.

[SynapticBackfire]

Would it be possible for someone to post the marine portion of this build including enhancements? Wouldn't mind trying it out.  Still working on getting mids updated properly with the powerset. Ty in advance!

[Meknomancer]

54 minutes ago, SynapticBackfire said:

Would it be possible for someone to post the marine portion of this build including enhancements? Wouldn't mind trying it out.  Still working on getting mids updated properly with the powerset. Ty in advance!

 

 

Couple of changes to the posted build when i was messing about in mids but its something roughly like this:

 

 

NECRO MARINE - Villain Mastermind
Build plan made with Mids' Reborn v3.7.5 rev. 21
──────────────────────────────
Primary powerset: NecromancySecondary powerset: Marine AffinityPool powerset (#1): LeapingPool powerset (#2): SpeedPool powerset (#3): LeadershipPool powerset (#4): TeleportationAncillary powerset: Soul Mastery

──────────────────────────────

Powers taken:

Level 1: Zombie Horde
A: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage3: Expedient Reinforcement: Resist Bonus Aura for Pets5: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Endurance/Pet +Resist +Regen5: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage7: Edict of the Master: Defense Bonus7: Overwhelming Force: Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown

Level 1: Soothing Wave
A: Preventive Medicine: Heal/Endurance9: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance34: Preventive Medicine: Heal

Level 2: Gloom
A: Superior Winter's Bite: Accuracy/Damage9: Superior Winter's Bite: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance11: Superior Winter's Bite: Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime11: Apocalypse: Chance of Damage(Negative)13: Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage(Toxic)17: Cloud Senses: Chance for Negative Energy Damage

Level 4: Toroidal Bubble
A: Gladiator's Armor: End/Resist13: Gladiator's Armor: Resistance15: Gladiator's Armor: Recharge/Resist17: Invention: Endurance Modification

Level 6: Enchant Undead
A: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance21: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance/Endurance40: Unbreakable Guard: +Max HP45: Impervious Skin: Status Resistance/Regeneration45: Steadfast Protection: Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 8: Combat Jumping
A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed40: Kismet: Accuracy +6%

Level 10: Whitecap
A: Armageddon: Chance for Fire Damage34: Eradication: Chance for Energy Damage36: Obliteration: Chance for Smashing Damage46: Superior Avalanche: Accuracy/Damage46: Superior Avalanche: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance47: Fury of the Gladiator: Chance for Res Debuff

Level 12: Grave Knight
A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Endurance42: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Damage/Endurance43: Nucleolus Exposure43: Soulbound Allegiance: Chance for Build Up43: Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Damage45: Shield Breaker: Chance for Lethal Damage

Level 14: Hasten
A: Invention: Recharge Reduction15: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 16: Tide Pool
A: Invention: Slow

Level 18: Soul Extraction
A: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura19: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge19: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Damage/Endurance/Recharge21: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge37: Cloud Senses: Chance for Negative Energy Damage37: Unbreakable Constraint: Chance for Smashing Damage

Level 20: Brine
A: Chloroplast Exposure42: Theft of Essence: Chance for +Endurance

Level 22: Lich
A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Damage23: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance23: Endoplasm Exposure36: Cloud Senses: Chance for Negative Energy Damage36: Sovereign Right: Resistance Bonus37: Call to Arms: Defense Bonus Aura for Pets

Level 24: Shifting Tides
A: Ragnarok: Damage/Endurance25: Ragnarok: Damage25: Ragnarok: Damage/Recharge42: Ragnarok: Recharge/Accuracy46: Ragnarok: Damage/Recharge/Accuracy

Level 26: Dark Empowerment
A: Regenerative Tissue: +Regeneration27: Panacea: +Hit Points/Endurance27: Panacea: Heal34: Numina's Convalesence: +Regeneration/+Recovery

Level 28: Barrier Reef
A: Reactive Defenses: Defense/RechargeTime29: Reactive Defenses: Endurance/RechargeTime29: Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance33: Reactive Defenses: Defense47: Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime48: Reactive Defenses: Scaling Resist Damage

Level 30: Power of the Depths
A: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime31: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance31: Preventive Medicine: Endurance/RechargeTime31: Preventive Medicine: Heal/Endurance33: Preventive Medicine: Heal33: Preventive Medicine: Chance for +Absorb

Level 32: Super Speed
A: Blessing of the Zephyr: Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range39: Blessing of the Zephyr: Knockback Reduction (4 points)

Level 35: Dark Embrace
A: Gladiator's Armor: TP Protection +3% Def (All)39: Gladiator's Armor: Resistance39: Gladiator's Armor: End/Resist

Level 38: Maneuvers
A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed40: Shield Wall: +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)48: Shield Wall: Defense48: Shield Wall: Defense/Endurance

Level 41: Teleport
A: Blessing of the Zephyr: Knockback Reduction (4 points)

Level 44: Tactics
A: Cytoskeleton Exposure

Level 47: Teleport Target
A: Winter's Gift: Slow Resistance (20%)

Level 49: Fold Space
A: Ectosome Exposure50: Ectosome Exposure

──────────────────────────────

Inherents:

Level 1: Supremacy

Level 1: Brawl
(Empty)

Level 1: Sprint
(Empty)

Level 2: Rest
(Empty)

Level 1: Swift
(Empty)

Level 1: Hurdle
(Empty)

Level 1: Health
A: Miracle: +Recovery

Level 1: Stamina
A: Performance Shifter: EndMod3: Performance Shifter: Chance for +End

Level 32: Speed Phase

 

 

[SynapticBackfire]

You are amazing! Ty kindly 🙂 Really wanted to test this out.

[R jobbus]

21 hours ago, Meknomancer said:

 

 

Couple of changes to the posted build when i was messing about in mids but its something roughly like this:

 

 

NECRO MARINE - Villain Mastermind
Build plan made with Mids' Reborn v3.7.5 rev. 21
──────────────────────────────
Primary powerset: NecromancySecondary powerset: Marine AffinityPool powerset (#1): LeapingPool powerset (#2): SpeedPool powerset (#3): LeadershipPool powerset (#4): TeleportationAncillary powerset: Soul Mastery

──────────────────────────────

Powers taken:

Level 1: Zombie Horde
A: Expedient Reinforcement: Accuracy/Damage3: Expedient Reinforcement: Resist Bonus Aura for Pets5: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Endurance/Pet +Resist +Regen5: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage7: Edict of the Master: Defense Bonus7: Overwhelming Force: Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown

Level 1: Soothing Wave
A: Preventive Medicine: Heal/Endurance9: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance34: Preventive Medicine: Heal

Level 2: Gloom
A: Superior Winter's Bite: Accuracy/Damage9: Superior Winter's Bite: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance11: Superior Winter's Bite: Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime11: Apocalypse: Chance of Damage(Negative)13: Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage(Toxic)17: Cloud Senses: Chance for Negative Energy Damage

Level 4: Toroidal Bubble
A: Gladiator's Armor: End/Resist13: Gladiator's Armor: Resistance15: Gladiator's Armor: Recharge/Resist17: Invention: Endurance Modification

Level 6: Enchant Undead
A: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance21: Unbreakable Guard: Resistance/Endurance40: Unbreakable Guard: +Max HP45: Impervious Skin: Status Resistance/Regeneration45: Steadfast Protection: Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 8: Combat Jumping
A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed40: Kismet: Accuracy +6%

Level 10: Whitecap
A: Armageddon: Chance for Fire Damage34: Eradication: Chance for Energy Damage36: Obliteration: Chance for Smashing Damage46: Superior Avalanche: Accuracy/Damage46: Superior Avalanche: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance47: Fury of the Gladiator: Chance for Res Debuff

Level 12: Grave Knight
A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Endurance42: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Damage/Endurance43: Nucleolus Exposure43: Soulbound Allegiance: Chance for Build Up43: Touch of Lady Grey: Chance for Negative Damage45: Shield Breaker: Chance for Lethal Damage

Level 14: Hasten
A: Invention: Recharge Reduction15: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 16: Tide Pool
A: Invention: Slow

Level 18: Soul Extraction
A: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura19: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge19: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Damage/Endurance/Recharge21: Superior Command of the Mastermind: Accuracy/Damage/Recharge37: Cloud Senses: Chance for Negative Energy Damage37: Unbreakable Constraint: Chance for Smashing Damage

Level 20: Brine
A: Chloroplast Exposure42: Theft of Essence: Chance for +Endurance

Level 22: Lich
A: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Damage23: Superior Mark of Supremacy: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance23: Endoplasm Exposure36: Cloud Senses: Chance for Negative Energy Damage36: Sovereign Right: Resistance Bonus37: Call to Arms: Defense Bonus Aura for Pets

Level 24: Shifting Tides
A: Ragnarok: Damage/Endurance25: Ragnarok: Damage25: Ragnarok: Damage/Recharge42: Ragnarok: Recharge/Accuracy46: Ragnarok: Damage/Recharge/Accuracy

Level 26: Dark Empowerment
A: Regenerative Tissue: +Regeneration27: Panacea: +Hit Points/Endurance27: Panacea: Heal34: Numina's Convalesence: +Regeneration/+Recovery

Level 28: Barrier Reef
A: Reactive Defenses: Defense/RechargeTime29: Reactive Defenses: Endurance/RechargeTime29: Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance33: Reactive Defenses: Defense47: Reactive Defenses: Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime48: Reactive Defenses: Scaling Resist Damage

Level 30: Power of the Depths
A: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime31: Preventive Medicine: Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance31: Preventive Medicine: Endurance/RechargeTime31: Preventive Medicine: Heal/Endurance33: Preventive Medicine: Heal33: Preventive Medicine: Chance for +Absorb

Level 32: Super Speed
A: Blessing of the Zephyr: Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range39: Blessing of the Zephyr: Knockback Reduction (4 points)

Level 35: Dark Embrace
A: Gladiator's Armor: TP Protection +3% Def (All)39: Gladiator's Armor: Resistance39: Gladiator's Armor: End/Resist

Level 38: Maneuvers
A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed40: Shield Wall: +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)48: Shield Wall: Defense48: Shield Wall: Defense/Endurance

Level 41: Teleport
A: Blessing of the Zephyr: Knockback Reduction (4 points)

Level 44: Tactics
A: Cytoskeleton Exposure

Level 47: Teleport Target
A: Winter's Gift: Slow Resistance (20%)

Level 49: Fold Space
A: Ectosome Exposure50: Ectosome Exposure

──────────────────────────────

Inherents:

Level 1: Supremacy

Level 1: Brawl
(Empty)

Level 1: Sprint
(Empty)

Level 2: Rest
(Empty)

Level 1: Swift
(Empty)

Level 1: Hurdle
(Empty)

Level 1: Health
A: Miracle: +Recovery

Level 1: Stamina
A: Performance Shifter: EndMod3: Performance Shifter: Chance for +End

Level 32: Speed Phase

 

 

 

Is the build posted in the first post still good to try out or should I add the changes from here. I've been wanting to give necro/marine a shot

[Meknomancer]

3 hours ago, R jobbus said:

 

Is the build posted in the first post still good to try out or should I add the changes from here. I've been wanting to give necro/marine a shot

 

Marine is so good you can build it any way you want and it'll still be great. Either of them will work, so will any of the other posted builds by other players. Just take the powers you want/have fun with and slot pretty much as you feel is good and have fun. Its really hard to go wrong with this set its just that good.

[R jobbus]

17 hours ago, Meknomancer said:

 

Marine is so good you can build it any way you want and it'll still be great. Either of them will work, so will any of the other posted builds by other players. Just take the powers you want/have fun with and slot pretty much as you feel is good and have fun. Its really hard to go wrong with this set its just that good.

 

What's the upper threshold for mm/marine. Just gimme the hard truth cause I have no idea what mm is capable of. Like you can't solo +4/x8 ITFs right. The pets probably can't withstand the more difficult AVs even with barrier? Or can they. I'm currently building up ninjas/marine cause it's probably as good as ninjas are going to get in the short run, and it's quite a fun build. But I do not know anything about other pets, who are probably more ideal than ninjas.

Edited Wednesday at 01:34 PM by R jobbus

[Meknomancer]

1 hour ago, R jobbus said:

 

What's the upper threshold for mm/marine. Just gimme the hard truth cause I have no idea what mm is capable of. Like you can't solo +4/x8 ITFs right. The pets probably can't withstand the more difficult AVs even with barrier? Or can they. I'm currently building up ninjas/marine cause it's probably as good as ninjas are going to get in the short run, and it's quite a fun build. But I do not know anything about other pets, who are probably more ideal than ninjas.

 

Will they solo av's - yes. Will they solo gm's - yes. Have i tried solo +4/8 itf - no. But i havent tried it on any other AT either. There's a lot of +4/8 solo itf runs that are impressive but i'm much more impressed by solo +4/8 lrsf/miss lib or tinpex. Would i try it on an mm? Possibly someday but i have severe altitis and like to try different combos. I did a lot of running around solo in the labyrinth with the mercs/marine and it was fine once a few fogs popped.

 

With marine i've had to do less summoning of pets than with any other secondary and i cant remember the last time i had to resummon mercs when fighting av's. Melee pets definitely, especially with some of the larger pbaoe that some av's and gm's put out stomping the t1+t2 pets instantly.

 

Players will rate mm pets differently depending on who you ask. 

 

Mercs no. 1

Bots no. 2

Necro no. 3 (they would be no. 2 but they melee)

Demons no. 4

Thugs no. 5

Ninjas no. 6

Beasts aren't worth a mention in comparison to the rest.

[R jobbus]

18 minutes ago, Meknomancer said:

 

Will they solo av's - yes. Will they solo gm's - yes. Have i tried solo +4/8 itf - no. But i havent tried it on any other AT either. There's a lot of +4/8 solo itf runs that are impressive but i'm much more impressed by solo +4/8 lrsf/miss lib or tinpex. Would i try it on an mm? Possibly someday but i have severe altitis and like to try different combos. I did a lot of running around solo in the labyrinth with the mercs/marine and it was fine once a few fogs popped.

 

With marine i've had to do less summoning of pets than with any other secondary and i cant remember the last time i had to resummon mercs when fighting av's. Melee pets definitely, especially with some of the larger pbaoe that some av's and gm's put out stomping the t1+t2 pets instantly.

 

Players will rate mm pets differently depending on who you ask. 

 

Mercs no. 1

Bots no. 2

Necro no. 3 (they would be no. 2 but they melee)

Demons no. 4

Thugs no. 5

Ninjas no. 6

Beasts aren't worth a mention in comparison to the rest.

very useful info, thanks.

 

I've got mercs/marine and necro/marine already made. So i'll be giving them a shot when I get around to it.

[Crysis]

On 10/2/2024 at 11:29 AM, Meknomancer said:

 

Will they solo av's - yes. Will they solo gm's - yes. Have i tried solo +4/8 itf - no. But i havent tried it on any other AT either. There's a lot of +4/8 solo itf runs that are impressive but i'm much more impressed by solo +4/8 lrsf/miss lib or tinpex. Would i try it on an mm? Possibly someday but i have severe altitis and like to try different combos. I did a lot of running around solo in the labyrinth with the mercs/marine and it was fine once a few fogs popped.

 

With marine i've had to do less summoning of pets than with any other secondary and i cant remember the last time i had to resummon mercs when fighting av's. Melee pets definitely, especially with some of the larger pbaoe that some av's and gm's put out stomping the t1+t2 pets instantly.

 

Players will rate mm pets differently depending on who you ask. 

 

Mercs no. 1

Bots no. 2

Necro no. 3 (they would be no. 2 but they melee)

Demons no. 4

Thugs no. 5

Ninjas no. 6

Beasts aren't worth a mention in comparison to the rest.

 

Nothing to add to what Mek already wrote here, and my experience has been very similar.  

 

The only thing I’ve found is that I’d put Ninja slightly ahead of Demons in normal PvE and with heavy use of smokeflash for the extra “go crit crazy” DPS.  Thugs was dead last for me, but still very good, even outshining my beloved Thugs/Storm w/Burnout build.

 

/Time is the only MM secondary that I’ve found that comes close to /Marine Affinity for MM’s, although /Cold helps them a bunch for adding defense. 

 

My one and only complaint about /Marine, and you’ll notice it far more with Mercs/Marine than other sets, is the raw summon and prep time.  Exemp down and need to resummon? 40-50 seconds required to resummon, wait for Commando to finally parachute in (summon him first), equip with both upgrades, summon Barrier Reef, apply Shifting Tides to Commando, drop Tord/Abyss and THEN you are ready.  During Tinpex right before you do the final Neuron/Bobcat mission, dismiss everything to avoid the stupid henchman TP bug.  Then you are dead last to the fight while you do all the above and still summon Lores.  It’s a crazy long sequence.  Fortunately, you don’t have to resummon them as often outside of incarnate speed runs so that’s a plus.

[Meknomancer]

7 hours ago, Crysis said:

 

Nothing to add to what Mek already wrote here, and my experience has been very similar.  

 

The only thing I’ve found is that I’d put Ninja slightly ahead of Demons in normal PvE and with heavy use of smokeflash for the extra “go crit crazy” DPS.  Thugs was dead last for me, but still very good, even outshining my beloved Thugs/Storm w/Burnout build.

 

/Time is the only MM secondary that I’ve found that comes close to /Marine Affinity for MM’s, although /Cold helps them a bunch for adding defense. 

 

My one and only complaint about /Marine, and you’ll notice it far more with Mercs/Marine than other sets, is the raw summon and prep time.  Exemp down and need to resummon? 40-50 seconds required to resummon, wait for Commando to finally parachute in (summon him first), equip with both upgrades, summon Barrier Reef, apply Shifting Tides to Commando, drop Tord/Abyss and THEN you are ready.  During Tinpex right before you do the final Neuron/Bobcat mission, dismiss everything to avoid the stupid henchman TP bug.  Then you are dead last to the fight while you do all the above and still summon Lores.  It’s a crazy long sequence.  Fortunately, you don’t have to resummon them as often outside of incarnate speed runs so that’s a plus.

 

Tinpex bug really needs to be sorted out. You can watch the rest of the team down Neuron/Bobcat in the time it takes to summon and equip and prepare your mercs/marine. By the time your ready theres a warwalker with 1/2 hp left. 

[R jobbus]

12 hours ago, Crysis said:

 

Nothing to add to what Mek already wrote here, and my experience has been very similar.  

 

The only thing I’ve found is that I’d put Ninja slightly ahead of Demons in normal PvE and with heavy use of smokeflash for the extra “go crit crazy” DPS.  Thugs was dead last for me, but still very good, even outshining my beloved Thugs/Storm w/Burnout build.

 

/Time is the only MM secondary that I’ve found that comes close to /Marine Affinity for MM’s, although /Cold helps them a bunch for adding defense. 

 

My one and only complaint about /Marine, and you’ll notice it far more with Mercs/Marine than other sets, is the raw summon and prep time.  Exemp down and need to resummon? 40-50 seconds required to resummon, wait for Commando to finally parachute in (summon him first), equip with both upgrades, summon Barrier Reef, apply Shifting Tides to Commando, drop Tord/Abyss and THEN you are ready.  During Tinpex right before you do the final Neuron/Bobcat mission, dismiss everything to avoid the stupid henchman TP bug.  Then you are dead last to the fight while you do all the above and still summon Lores.  It’s a crazy long sequence.  Fortunately, you don’t have to resummon them as often outside of incarnate speed runs so that’s a plus.

 

I did some testing and I am pleased with the results of ninja/marine so far. I'm going to put together necro/marine tonight in the beta server.

 

But ninjas/marine was able to +4/x8 clear the platform that rommy and requiem are on on stage 3 of the ITF, and took them out with ease 1 on 1, rommy first then requiem. I was very surprised at how much damage they do. I didn't even use longbow or anything and they killed the AVs pretty quickly and comfortably.

 

That's good enough for me for ninjas, more than I ever expected really. /marine seems quite strong.

 

However, I did test ninjas/marine vs stage 4 rommy+3nictus fight and they would get killed pretty quicly even with the buffs. That fight might be a little bit too much for them. I'm not sure they can tank rommy + autohit nictus while wearing down all the AVs. it's rough. But I may just need more practice, and I might pick a lore to help out, maybe with healing or something.

 

Do you guys have lore suggestions that might help with this or MM in general? I was thinking longbow radial, that way the invincible unit would help heal all the pets, and when there was one AV left it'd make it go very fast. Is there a better option, or a tanky lore that can pull aggro? Or specializes in healing more? I dont know much about them except pantheon and longbow.

 

Ill try necro/marine for the stage 4 fight later. I'm assuming mercs/marine wouldn't be any better for this particular fight since you can't fight AVs at range anyways, they'll just run up to you everytime.

 

All the information on /marine for MM has been awesome, I am pleased with it and I had no idea it was this good. really fun.

Edited Friday at 11:09 PM by R jobbus

[Meknomancer]

12 hours ago, R jobbus said:

 

I did some testing and I am pleased with the results of ninja/marine so far. I'm going to put together necro/marine tonight in the beta server.

 

But ninjas/marine was able to +4/x8 clear the platform that rommy and requiem are on on stage 3 of the ITF, and took them out with ease 1 on 1, rommy first then requiem. I was very surprised at how much damage they do. I didn't even use longbow or anything and they killed the AVs pretty quickly and comfortably.

 

That's good enough for me for ninjas, more than I ever expected really. /marine seems quite strong.

 

However, I did test ninjas/marine vs stage 4 rommy+3nictus fight and they would get killed pretty quicly even with the buffs. That fight might be a little bit too much for them. I'm not sure they can tank rommy + autohit nictus while wearing down all the AVs. it's rough. But I may just need more practice, and I might pick a lore to help out, maybe with healing or something.

 

Do you guys have lore suggestions that might help with this or MM in general? I was thinking longbow radial, that way the invincible unit would help heal all the pets, and when there was one AV left it'd make it go very fast. Is there a better option, or a tanky lore that can pull aggro? Or specializes in healing more? I dont know much about them except pantheon and longbow.

 

Ill try necro/marine for the stage 4 fight later. I'm assuming mercs/marine wouldn't be any better for this particular fight since you can't fight AVs at range anyways, they'll just run up to you everytime.

 

All the information on /marine for MM has been awesome, I am pleased with it and I had no idea it was this good. really fun.

 

There's a reason so many mm's take group fly. Mercs/Bots can stay at range with it when fighting av/gm They can run around all they like but very few of them are flyers. And even if they are you can take maces web envelope/cocoon or levi's spirit shark jaws. There's enough - fly powers you can spam to keep them from getting in range. Its the reason i feel mercs+bots are the top 2 pet sets, with group fly running they never have to worry about melee attacks except at lower levels vs stuff like skyraiders or a few flying freakshow.

[R jobbus]

5 hours ago, Meknomancer said:

 

There's a reason so many mm's take group fly. Mercs/Bots can stay at range with it when fighting av/gm They can run around all they like but very few of them are flyers. And even if they are you can take maces web envelope/cocoon or levi's spirit shark jaws. There's enough - fly powers you can spam to keep them from getting in range. Its the reason i feel mercs+bots are the top 2 pet sets, with group fly running they never have to worry about melee attacks except at lower levels vs stuff like skyraiders or a few flying freakshow.

 

Do you have a merc/marine build that has group fly in mids? Or i was using this one, linked in the post from another topic, is there a quick switch to this build. I would love to try group fly with this. Mercs are insane. the slow combined with all the buffs, just makes the firing squad so good. And the range is quite far, it's awesome. I need to get better at just controlling the pets in general, like placing them in the right spots and setting up tide pool accordingly but the potential is just nuts. For how ranged they are the damage is pretty insane. I'd love to check out a fly build. Do I just switch out super speed or something, what're my options.

 

also thanks for the help as always lol im learning about mm and yall have been a great help

 

Also with group fly and flying builds, you dont have to worry about enemies with de-fly abilities? or do you take evasive maneuvers? MERCS MARINE - Mastermind (Mercenaries - Marine Affinity).mbd

Edited 17 hours ago by R jobbus

[Maelwys]

20 hours ago, R jobbus said:

Do you guys have lore suggestions that might help with this or MM in general? I was thinking longbow radial, that way the invincible unit would help heal all the pets, and when there was one AV left it'd make it go very fast. Is there a better option, or a tanky lore that can pull aggro? Or specializes in healing more? I dont know much about them except pantheon and longbow.

 

Whilst the best performing Lores tend to be the Intangible Support ones (the rest tend to die too quickly to be useful) in order to be worthwhile for MMs they need to have decent AoE buffs. So that's Arachnos Radial (which you can treat as an on-demand 90s +Defence buff plus a little additional healing) or Talons Radial (their buffs are much better over time than Arachnos) or Banished Pantheon Radial (the only Lore with an immortal support pet that DEALS DAMAGE and can pull aggro). Most of the time my MMs run with Talons.

 

There's a Developer-built guide to all Lore pets available here (it's a Google Sheet with pictures) and exact power stats here.