Control Hybrid Suggestion - Notify Mobs?

[Madvillain]

Suggestion to change the way Control Hybrid notifies mobs. When toggled on, powers that do not normally notify mobs, will. While I've noticed this before with Mass Hypnosis, it's become a bit more of a problem with my Arsenal controller when using Smoke Cannister and Control Core Hybrid.

 

Control Core provides a +1mag to controls, and a chance for damage on controlled enemies. When using Smoke Cannister as a preemptive debuff on mobs, this currently draws aggro when hybrid is active, pretty much defeating the point. If the +mag chance were able to be separated from the chance for damage as notification of mobs is concerned, that would resolve the issue. 

[Rudra]

The Control Hybrid Incarnate powers either grant a damage proc or a fear proc. Damage and fear notify mobs. (Edit: So pop your Hybrid power after firing your Smoke Canister.)

 

Edited October 13 by Rudra

[Madvillain]

My concern is only with the chance for +mag portion of Control Core Hybrid

[Rudra]

That isn't how powers work though. You can't take a power and then only use the part of the power you prefer, you use the power. And all the Control Hybrid powers include either a damage component or a fear component. And damage and fear notify mobs. (Edit: It doesn't matter if the power in question failed to harm or terrorize the target, just that the power attempted to.)

 

Edited October 13 by Rudra

[Madvillain]

The damage would of course notify mobs (as would the stun and feat but again, Core is suggested on here), but since it is dependent on the target already being mezzed, it's not related to the reason for my suggestion. You're right that the power applies both effects at the same time, the roll on +mag and the chance for damage, and the entire effect is coded to notify mobs. That's the reason for the suggestion, that they be decoupled so that control powers which do not inherently notify mobs would not inherit mob notification when used as preemptive/countermeasures to yet unengaged mobs.

[Luminara]

7 hours ago, Madvillain said:

You're right that the power applies both effects at the same time, the roll on +mag and the chance for damage, and the entire effect is coded to notify mobs. That's the reason for the suggestion, that they be decoupled so that control powers which do not inherently notify mobs would not inherit mob notification when used as preemptive/countermeasures to yet unengaged mobs.

 

It's a damage proc.  You activate the toggle, you take your chances, same as every other damage proc in the game.

[Madvillain]

5 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

It's a damage proc.  You activate the toggle, you take your chances, same as every other damage proc in the game.

They would need to be already mezzed to be eligible for the damage proc... Again, this is the +mag portion of Control Core Hybrid...

[srmalloy]

4 hours ago, Luminara said:

It's a damage proc.  You activate the toggle, you take your chances, same as every other damage proc in the game.

This. I had a loosely similar situation with my Grav/Traps Controller; using parts of a build I'd gotten off the forums, I had a damage proc in Wormhole, and I was aggroing my target spawn whether or not the wormhole hit. Removing the proc reset the power to leave my targets clueless that they'd been transported. The Control Hybrid powers all have a chance for either fear or damage, some of them have a chance for +1 Mag to controls; the damage/fear is the primary effect, +1 Mag is secondary. You're asking for the Control Hybrid powers to be redefined for everyone in the game because you don't like how they're built.

[Madvillain]

2 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

This. I had a loosely similar situation with my Grav/Traps Controller; using parts of a build I'd gotten off the forums, I had a damage proc in Wormhole, and I was aggroing my target spawn whether or not the wormhole hit. Removing the proc reset the power to leave my targets clueless that they'd been transported. The Control Hybrid powers all have a chance for either fear or damage, some of them have a chance for +1 Mag to controls; the damage/fear is the primary effect, +1 Mag is secondary. You're asking for the Control Hybrid powers to be redefined for everyone in the game because you don't like how they're built.

Please read the power info. It does +1 mag to all controls, then if already controlled, it has a chance to apply a damage proc. When first engaging a mob, the would not be mezzed, ie no chance for a damage proc. Still, the chance for +1 mag is coded to notify the mobs, which Im suggesting on. Again, damage proc, stun proc, fear proc are all irrelevant to this suggestion.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Madvillain said:

Please read the power info. It does +1 mag to all controls, then if already controlled, it has a chance to apply a damage proc. When first engaging a mob, the would not be mezzed, ie no chance for a damage proc. Still, the chance for +1 mag is coded to notify the mobs, which Im suggesting on. Again, damage proc, stun proc, fear proc are all irrelevant to this suggestion.

Control Core Embodiment is... fun... It has a 100% chance of a 75% chance of being applied. (https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid.control_core_embodiment). (Edit again: Yes, I know that 100% chance just makes the 75% chance work. I just get a kick out of the way it has to work.) However, each of its mez magnitude increases only have a 33% chance of increasing mez magnitude, and that boost requires the target not be a friend and already be affected by that mez:

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid_silent.control_boost_1

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid_silent.control_boost_2

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid_silent.control_boost_3

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid_silent.control_boost_4

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid_silent.control_boost_5

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid_silent.control_boost_6

 

Meanwhile, its damage component has a 100% chance of a 75% chance of doing damage to any target that is not a friend and is already affected by a mez.:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid_silent.containment_8

 

So your statement is not correct. (And you are more likely to inflict damage than get that control boost.) So again, use your Smoke Canister, then pop Hybrid for the rest if you want to not notify mobs that you are using a power that is guaranteed to be trying to affect them with a notify mobs component.

 

(Edit: The damage component of Control Hybrid is the primary effect. You can tell by checking the T1 version of it that only has the chance to do damage. The control components are secondary effects. Just like @srmalloy said.)

 

 

Edited October 13 by Rudra

[Madvillain]

13 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Control Core Embodiment is... fun... It has a 100% chance of a 75% chance of being applied. (https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid.control_core_embodiment). (Edit again: Yes, I know that 100% chance just makes the 75% chance work. I just get a kick out of the way it has to work.) However, each of its mez magnitude increases only have a 33% chance of increasing mez magnitude, and that boost requires the target not be a friend and already be affected by that mez:

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid_silent.control_boost_1

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid_silent.control_boost_2

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid_silent.control_boost_3

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid_silent.control_boost_4

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid_silent.control_boost_5

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid_silent.control_boost_6

 

Meanwhile, its damage component has a 100% chance of a 75% chance of doing damage to any target that is not a friend and is already affected by a mez.:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=incarnate.hybrid_silent.containment_8

 

So your statement is not correct. (And you are more likely to inflict damage than get that control boost.) So again, use your Smoke Canister, then pop Hybrid for the rest if you want to not notify mobs that you are using a power that is guaranteed to be trying to affect them with a notify mobs component.

 

(Edit: The damage component of Control Hybrid is the primary effect. You can tell by checking the T1 version of it that only has the chance to do damage. The control components are secondary effects. Just like @srmalloy said.)

 

 

 

Which statement is not correct? Im aware of how the power is coded in your links, and is the reason for this suggestion. Your remedy of waiting to pop hybrid (a power with 2min duration and 50% uptime) prior to using Smoke Cannister (which is up every 20ish seconds) is indicative of the issue Im highlighting here.

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, Madvillain said:

Which statement is not correct?

 

1 hour ago, Madvillain said:

It does +1 mag to all controls, then if already controlled, it has a chance to apply a damage proc.

 

Edit: It 1st checks to see if the targets are friendly or enemy, then checks to see if they are already mezzed. Then, if the affected targets are already mezzed, it has a 33% chance of improving that mez's magnitude by 1 and a 75% chance of inflicting psionic damage. The mag increase is not the primary effect. The damage is.

 

Edit again:

  

12 minutes ago, Madvillain said:

Your remedy of waiting to pop hybrid (a power with 2min duration and 50% uptime) prior to using Smoke Cannister (which is up every 20ish seconds)

Hybrid powers are toggles. You can turn them off any time they are active any time you want. (And their recharge is only 2 minutes.)

 

Edited October 13 by Rudra

[Madvillain]

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 

 

Edit: It 1st checks to see if the targets are friendly or enemy, then checks to see if they are already mezzed. Then, if the affected targets are already mezzed, it has a 33% chance of improving that mez's magnitude by 1 and a 75% chance of inflicting psionic damage. The mag increase is not the primary effect. The damage is.

 

Edit again:

  

Hybrid powers are toggles. You can turn them off any time they are active any time you want.

 

 

I see, nonetheless, you're arguing that Smoke Cannister and Mass Hypnosis and Confuse should notify mobs while Control Hybrid is active despite none of the Control Hybrid effects being able to take effect?

[Rudra]

8 minutes ago, Madvillain said:

 

I see, nonetheless, you're arguing that Smoke Cannister and Mass Hypnosis and Confuse should notify mobs while Control Hybrid is active despite none of the Control Hybrid effects being able to take effect?

Yep. The Control Hybrid powers' primary purpose is to add damage (or fear) to your control powers. As a side benefit, it might even bolster the effects of your affected control powers. So it should notify mobs while active.

 

Edit: Also, all 3 of those powers are confuses. (Or at least have a confuse component.) And the 5th mag boost from Control is Confuse. So the Control Core Embodiment is affecting those powers.

 

Edited October 13 by Rudra

[Madvillain]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Yep. The Control Hybrid powers' primary purpose is to add damage (or fear) to your control powers. As a side benefit, it might even bolster the effects of your affected control powers. So it should notify mobs while active.

Then we disagree.

[megaericzero]

14 minutes ago, Rudra said:

all 3 of those powers are confuses. (Or at least have a confuse component.)

Was Mass Hypnosis changed while I was asleep or something?

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, megaericzero said:

Was Mass Hypnosis changed while I was asleep or something?

Sorry. Replaced it with Mass Confusion in my head when I read it. Still, Mass Hypnosis is a sleep effect which is still affected by Control Core Embodiment.