Invuln/SS Build Need Opinions

[TheMultiVitamin]

So I normally get help on my builds but I wanted to try and make my own, see how it goes. My goals for this build was to go more all in on Resistances and Health with a more minor focus on damage. The goal was to make a sort-of Starfire Expy in the form of "Alien Princess", which is why she also has Energy Mastery (as conserve power and physical perfection are useful, and laser beam eyes + energy torrent give her a form of "ranged attacks she can use, but she does so rarely.") It's not meant to be optimal, but I'd still like it to be good. I want her to be able to take damage with it barely affecting her and deal out decent amounts back!

Yoro'Kala - Tanker (Invulnerability - Super Strength).mbd

[Uncle Shags]

You should go back to the drawing board.  I'm not sure how you did it, but you managed to somehow make your Invuln tank WEAKER than it would be without any enhance at all!  Just kidding.  Kind of. 

 

You need to familiarize yourself with enhance sets and which are good for what.  You say you want this to be tanky, yet you're missing out on all the tanky sets.

 

Have you looked at Icesphere's builds in the general archetypes section?  I guarantee there's a Invuln/SS in there.  Icesphere builds are nice.

[TheMultiVitamin]

37 minutes ago, Uncle Shags said:

You should go back to the drawing board.  I'm not sure how you did it, but you managed to somehow make your Invuln tank WEAKER than it would be without any enhance at all!  Just kidding.  Kind of. 

 

You need to familiarize yourself with enhance sets and which are good for what.  You say you want this to be tanky, yet you're missing out on all the tanky sets.

 

Have you looked at Icesphere's builds in the general archetypes section?  I guarantee there's a Invuln/SS in there.  Icesphere builds are nice.

Which sets do you mean? I thought I had done fairly well given I've achieved capped Lethal/Smash Resist, max health and good Mez Protection/Resistance. 

I've looked at a few Icesphere builds yea, a few of JJDraken's builds as well, I thought I had done fairly well and achieved the goals I was shooting for decently well. Only issue is that I don't fully know what I'm looking at for them and it helps me familiarize easier and learn better when I make it myself and see what works and what doesn't, while getting opinions from others on what I have made.

Edited December 11, 2024 by TheMultiVitamin

[Nemu]

You know your goals, now you need to learn game mechanics.

 

Cliff notes on survival stats:

 

Resists lessen damage you take, max tanker resists is 90%. This means damage only do 10% of their value

Defense avoids damage all together, defense softcap for regular content is 45%. This means you will only get hit 5% of the time

 

Both stats have types. Resists work against specific damage type. Defense works against specific damage types and also positional vectors (range/melee/aoe). Defense doesn't double dip, so the highest defense you have against an attack with the appropriate tags is the one used. For invuln build defense is usually against specific damage types like S/L. It's much much much harder to build invuln for positional defense without gimping the build.

 

Invuln has a mix of both resist and defense, tanky invuln builds will strive for 45% defense to certain damage types AS WELL as 90% resists to S/L and high resists to other damage types. Your current build only has the 90% resist to S/L part.

 

Tankiness is not just about hard stats, your toolkit and active mitigation is also a factor. Stuff like rotating handclap/footstomp knockdowns is another layer of mitigation you can add on top of your hard stats.

 

Take out all the Heal IOs in health and physical perfection and you go from 44HP per second to 33 HP per second. Is 10 more HP per second worth 6 slots? I think it's a terrible commitment of 6 slots.

 

Invuln/SS builds are everywhere, take one from infinitum's build collection and look at the stats he chased

Those circles give you an idea of the type of defense/resist stats to chase for a tanky character.

 

Here's a fairly budget friendly build that closes the gap on those defensive/resist marks and caters to your power choices. I avoided using winter sets but those drastically alter the efficacy of slot distribution for invuln builds because they provide very high typed defense bonuses

 

 

Tanker (Invulnerability - Super Strength).mbd

 

To be frank I find hover cumbersome without evasive maneuvers and even then I dislike it for melee characters. Build wise it's 3 powers you are wasting just to have a decent combat travel power. That tax very often gets in the way of optimized build goals because for tanky characters you are pretty guaranteed to need tough/weave from the fighting pool, a lot of builds also need maneuvers for more defense, and some builds greatly benefit from hasten. What that means is that if you have powers that you want for concept, then you need to make very tough choices on cuts and slotting.

 

 

[TheMultiVitamin]

1 hour ago, Nemu said:

You know your goals, now you need to learn game mechanics.

 

Cliff notes on survival stats:

 

Resists lessen damage you take, max tanker resists is 90%. This means damage only do 10% of their value

Defense avoids damage all together, defense softcap for regular content is 45%. This means you will only get hit 5% of the time

 

Both stats have types. Resists work against specific damage type. Defense works against specific damage types and also positional vectors (range/melee/aoe). Defense doesn't double dip, so the highest defense you have against an attack with the appropriate tags is the one used. For invuln build defense is usually against specific damage types like S/L. It's much much much harder to build invuln for positional defense without gimping the build.

 

Invuln has a mix of both resist and defense, tanky invuln builds will strive for 45% defense to certain damage types AS WELL as 90% resists to S/L and high resists to other damage types. Your current build only has the 90% resist to S/L part.

 

Tankiness is not just about hard stats, your toolkit and active mitigation is also a factor. Stuff like rotating handclap/footstomp knockdowns is another layer of mitigation you can add on top of your hard stats.

 

Take out all the Heal IOs in health and physical perfection and you go from 44HP per second to 33 HP per second. Is 10 more HP per second worth 6 slots? I think it's a terrible commitment of 6 slots.

 

Invuln/SS builds are everywhere, take one from infinitum's build collection and look at the stats he chased

Those circles give you an idea of the type of defense/resist stats to chase for a tanky character.

 

Here's a fairly budget friendly build that closes the gap on those defensive/resist marks and caters to your power choices. I avoided using winter sets but those drastically alter the efficacy of slot distribution for invuln builds because they provide very high typed defense bonuses

 

 

Tanker (Invulnerability - Super Strength).mbd 42.1 kB · 1 download

 

To be frank I find hover cumbersome without evasive maneuvers and even then I dislike it for melee characters. Build wise it's 3 powers you are wasting just to have a decent combat travel power. That tax very often gets in the way of optimized build goals because for tanky characters you are pretty guaranteed to need tough/weave from the fighting pool, a lot of builds also need maneuvers for more defense, and some builds greatly benefit from hasten. What that means is that if you have powers that you want for concept, then you need to make very tough choices on cuts and slotting.

 

 

Oooh, thanks for the info! I knew about how Resist and Defense worked which is why I went and focused on Resist entirely, as the point was that the character easily gets hit, it just does nothing to them. However you bring up points I wasn't aware of and the information (and build) you've given help immensely, thank you!

[TheMultiVitamin]

A test build I'd like thoughts on

test build - Tanker (Invulnerability - Super Strength).mbd

[Warshades]

This is a quick but more expensive build. With barrier core destiny which adds a permanent 5% def/res and double stacked SMoT proc (+13.4% resist to all), this gets you to soft cap def against everything but psionic damage and hard cap resist (or near to it in the case of fire/cold) to everything but toxic damage. Having said that, it is a very expensive build with several winter and purple sets and pieces.

 

In addition to what @Nemu said about hover, I think you'll also have to stay close to the ground in order to activate Foot Stomp, so not ideal for SS chars.

Tanker (Invulnerability - Super Strength).mbd

[Warshades]

54 minutes ago, TheMultiVitamin said:

A test build I'd like thoughts on

test build - Tanker (Invulnerability - Super Strength).mbd

 

Much better compared to the original one you had, but a few things to consider:

• No need for the 6th set bonus from SMoT in Haymaker, you're way past the s/l resist cap. You'd be better off with another damage proc or better yet, the FF +rech proc in a 6th slot.
• Energy Torrent is a bit of an annoying power because of the KB. It scatters mobs which makes it longer to kill groups and worse for tanking. Put a Sudden Acceleration KB to KD proc in it if you're going to use it.
• I'm not sure about how often the Gaussian BU proc would have a chacne to activate in a toggle like Invincibility. I normally place it in Rage, but it may be better where you have it so maybe others can comment on that.
• Add a PZ psi damage proc to taunt.

 

Edit: also made adjustments to the build I posted to add Evasive Maneuvers and remove the slots from Tough which were a bit wasted. Still at nearly the same amount of resist but took a small dip in defense by replacing CJ with Evasive Maneuvers. Will still be almost soft capped with 1 foe in range of invincibility and barrier destiny.

Tanker (Invulnerability - Super Strength).mbd

Edited December 11, 2024 by Warshades

[Gobbledigook]

44 minutes ago, Warshades said:

 

Much better compared to the original one you had, but a few things to consider:

• No need for the 6th set bonus from SMoT in Haymaker, you're way past the s/l resist cap. You'd be better off with another damage proc or better yet, the FF +rech proc in a 6th slot.
• Energy Torrent is a bit of an annoying power because of the KB. It scatters mobs which makes it longer to kill groups and worse for tanking. Put a Sudden Acceleration KB to KD proc in it if you're going to use it.
• I'm not sure about how often the Gaussian BU proc would have a chacne to activate in a toggle like Invincibility. I normally place it in Rage, but it may be better where you have it so maybe others can comment on that.
• Add a PZ psi damage proc to taunt.

 

Edit: also made adjustments to the build I posted to add Evasive Maneuvers and remove the slots from Tough which were a bit wasted. Still at nearly the same amount of resist but took a small dip in defense by replacing CJ with Evasive Maneuvers. Will still be almost soft capped with 1 foe in range of invincibility and barrier destiny.

Tanker (Invulnerability - Super Strength).mbd 41.67 kB · 0 downloads

I think the 6 th slot in SMotT is relevant but only if he decides on Cardiac incarnate, otherwise it is useful. If you go cardiac then id suggest dropping the dam/rech for a proc.

 

It can scatter mobs which may or may not bother some, Sudden accel will work if it does bother.

 

With Rage not being up very often it is better to have it passively firing i think.

 

Good recharge and endurance on the build though. Fly speed in hover is actually useable which is nice.

 

Your build lacks in recharge a fair bit and the endurance is a little worse. No Evasive maneurvers will be slow flying indeed.  Both builds will work well though.

 

=========================

One thing to be aware of also with both builds is you need to be near the ground to activate footstomp.

Edited December 11, 2024 by Gobbledigook

[Psyonico]

35 minutes ago, Warshades said:

I'm not sure about how often the Gaussian BU proc would have a chacne to activate in a toggle like Invincibility.

 

It actually works very well in Invincibility because it has a chance to proc for each enemy in range every 10 seconds

[Nemu]

1 hour ago, TheMultiVitamin said:

A test build I'd like thoughts on

test build - Tanker (Invulnerability - Super Strength).mbd

I prefer to gauge performance not through best case scenario with 10 mobs feeding invincibility but by worst case scenario where there is only 1.

 

You over invested in S/L resist. The tanker +resist ATO can easily be double stacked to give you 12% resist to all.

 

[Warshades]

3 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

It actually works very well in Invincibility because it has a chance to proc for each enemy in range every 10 seconds

 

Good to know.

 

9 minutes ago, Gobbledigook said:

I think the 6 th slot in SMotT is relevant but only if he decides on Cardiac incarnate, otherwise it is useful. If you go cardiac then id suggest dropping the dam/rech for a proc.

 

It can scatter mobs which may or may not bother some, Sudden accel will work if it does bother.

 

With Rage not being up very often it is better to have it passively firing i think.

 

Good recharge and endurance on the build though. Fly speed in hover is actually useable which is nice.

 

Your build lacks in recharge a fair bit and the endurance is a little worse.

 

I mean, even without cardiac the build would sit at 86.2% s/l resist without Tough active. A single SMoT proc or even barrier being up would put it over the 90% resist cap. Toggling on tough gets it to over 90% s/l resist. The one thing that invuln has no difficulty capping is s/l resist so I would say it still isn't necessary to go for the 6th bonus in SMoT set.

 

If OP is mainly planning to solo then that's absolutely fair and Sudden Accel proc isn't needed. If OP is also planning to team a lot, it is worth considering how certain powers may bother others on a team or impact the team, which is why I suggested the Sudden Acceleration.

 

Will keep the Gaussian proc in toggles like Invincibility in mind for the future, haven't run into that situation personally as I haven't done a invuln/ss pairing since before CoH was closed.

 

A little confused about the "good recharge and endurance" and then the "build lacks in recharge and the endurance is a little worse" unless you're comparing between 2 different posted builds.  I will say I didn't prioritize recharge/offense all that much because OP is primarily concerned with being as unkillable as possible and Rage will largely help with offense (excluding crash times). Cardiac would probably help take care of most end issues, but overall my build would mostly rely on the occasional FF +rech proc to help in the recharge area.

[Gobbledigook]

 changed a few things in the testbuild with Cardiac in mind for you which may help.

 

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You could drop a proc in Haymaker but me personally i would rather keep the S/l resist up until a SMotT proc kicks in.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2024 by Gobbledigook

[Gobbledigook]

8 minutes ago, Warshades said:

 

Good to know.

 

 

I mean, even without cardiac the build would sit at 86.2% s/l resist without Tough active. A single SMoT proc or even barrier being up would put it over the 90% resist cap. Toggling on tough gets it to over 90% s/l resist. The one thing that invuln has no difficulty capping is s/l resist so I would say it still isn't necessary to go for the 6th bonus in SMoT set.

 

If OP is mainly planning to solo then that's absolutely fair and Sudden Accel proc isn't needed. If OP is also planning to team a lot, it is worth considering how certain powers may bother others on a team or impact the team, which is why I suggested the Sudden Acceleration.

 

Will keep the Gaussian proc in toggles like Invincibility in mind for the future, haven't run into that situation personally as I haven't done a invuln/ss pairing since before CoH was closed.

 

A little confused about the "good recharge and endurance" and then the "build lacks in recharge and the endurance is a little worse" unless you're comparing between 2 different posted builds.  I will say I didn't prioritize recharge/offense all that much because OP is primarily concerned with being as unkillable as possible and Rage will largely help with offense (excluding crash times). Cardiac would probably help take care of most end issues, but overall my build would mostly rely on the occasional FF +rech proc to help in the recharge area.

I just meant one has 86% recharge and yours showed 25% +recharge. Without haste i would prefer 86%.

 

Yes Sudden Accel in ET is a fair comment

[Nemu]

Energy torrent does KD on melee ATs.

[Gobbledigook]

3 minutes ago, Nemu said:

Energy torrent does KD on melee ATs.

That is why i have never had an issue with it and said it may be a personal thing.  Force feedback proc instead then lol.

[Warshades]

1 hour ago, Nemu said:

Energy torrent does KD on melee ATs.

 

You learn something new every day lol. But yeah, since it doesn't do KB then no point in the Sudden Accel proc.

[Biff Pow]

If you're going for Resists, you can probably take some ideas from my build. (Keep in mind these totals are before the Might of the Tanker +Res.)

 

 

I take Spring Attack (just for fun) but it can be easily swapped out for Energy Torrent.

 

InvSS.mbd

 

[Gobbledigook]

10 hours ago, Biff Pow said:

If you're going for Resists, you can probably take some ideas from my build. (Keep in mind these totals are before the Might of the Tanker +Res.)

 

 

I take Spring Attack (just for fun) but it can be easily swapped out for Energy Torrent.

 

InvSS.mbd 41.88 kB · 1 download

 

It could do with a little more in Dull pain. Some recharge in it and you are short of max HP. 2 more slots should do it so you could take a slot from stamina and health to cap max HP and bring it down to some decent recharge.

 

The defense is a bit too low for the very small gains in resistance.

 

You don't really need both SJ and Fly unless for theme.

Edited December 12, 2024 by Gobbledigook

[Biff Pow]

12 hours ago, Gobbledigook said:

It could do with a little more in Dull pain.

 

Dull Pain becomes less important when you're barely taking damage.

[Gobbledigook]

1 hour ago, Biff Pow said:

 

Dull Pain becomes less important when you're barely taking damage.

Depends on the content i guess. Blasters can tank normal content to a fair degree. Still nice to have and you do not need those slots in health and stamina. 12% regeneration for example does not equal an extra 200 max health/big heal on a faster recharge but each to their own.

 

You would be better off with a panacea proc in health.

 

Either way have fun. 🙂

Edited December 13, 2024 by Gobbledigook

[Cyri]

Maybe you can use something here.  Rage and Superior Might of Tank proc are turned off.  Also, except for Resilience, all incarnates are not selected.  Defense is set to 6 enemies, not 1.  It takes 6 enemies to get S/L/F/C/E/N to softcap on defense.  I take taunt late...you can always change things around.

 

Take a look if you like.  If not, no worries.

Invulnerability_SS.mbd

[Eric the Red]

On 12/11/2024 at 10:27 AM, Nemu said:

To be frank I find hover cumbersome without evasive maneuvers and even then I dislike it for melee characters. Build wise it's 3 powers you are wasting just to have a decent combat travel power. That tax very often gets in the way of optimized build goals because for tanky characters you are pretty guaranteed to need tough/weave from the fighting pool, a lot of builds also need maneuvers for more defense, and some builds greatly benefit from hasten. What that means is that if you have powers that you want for concept, then you need to make very tough choices on cuts and slotting.

 

This one partially confuses me; could I ask for clarification? 

 

Here is how I am looking at it....

 

Weave

0.32 End/s

5% Defense

 

Hover + Evasive Maneuvers

0.46 End/s (0.2 End/s + 0.26 End/s)

17.5% Defense (2.5% + 15%)

 

Looking at just these stats, Hover + Evasive Maneuvers would you have spending 50% more endurance, but getting 250% more defense.  I find that...attractive. 

 

I do realize there are additional considerations that could steer someone one way or the other. 

 

* Have powers that need your feet on the ground => Weave

* Willing to give up some def to keep your feet on the ground => Weave

* Need some more S/L resistance you can get from Tough => Weave

* Want a travel power with your defense buff, and Fly is acceptable => Hover + Evasive Maneuvers

* Want to minimize the number of powers taken for expense buff => Either.  Need three powers for either. 

 

I've been working on future builds for my Level 44 tank, so this has been some useful treading.  (Invul/Fire, so not quite the same.)  One thing I'm taking away as I do my own research and tweaking is that conditions one's build targets matter.  I've been optimizing with the Incarnate powers on, and I was liking how things looked at level 50 with incarnate powers slotted.  S/L resist was coming a little over 100%, which I saw as enough with very little overage/"waste".  Comparing my results to what I see here, I looked closer and realized that I allow SL resist to drop to about 79% if I exemplar to a level where I don't have the incarnate powers.  That's...not ideal.  More time at the drawing board! 

[Onlyasandwich]

10 minutes ago, Eric the Red said:

17.5% Defense (2.5% + 15%

The defense bonus from evasive maneuvers goes away once you attack. If it kept the defense bonus it would be the best pool power in the game by a longshot!

 

It's a great power to increase flight maneuverability, and act as an extra long mule.

Edited December 15, 2024 by Onlyasandwich

[Gobbledigook]

3 hours ago, Cyri said:

Maybe you can use something here.  Rage and Superior Might of Tank proc are turned off.  Also, except for Resilience, all incarnates are not selected.  Defense is set to 6 enemies, not 1.  It takes 6 enemies to get S/L/F/C/E/N to softcap on defense.  I take taunt late...you can always change things around.

 

Take a look if you like.  If not, no worries.

Invulnerability_SS.mbd 43.77 kB · 3 downloads

You could go agility with that much resists in the build to increase the +recharge which it lacks, boost defense and recovery. It would still leave you with good resists that SMotT will cover.

 

Still needs a Panacea proc in health. Replace the numina heal with it.

 

I would take a couple slots from physical perfection and drop them into dull pain personally.

Edited December 15, 2024 by Gobbledigook