Mind/Martial - Leveraging Envenomed Blades for procs

[Onlyasandwich]

Hello Dominators!

 

I've had my eye on the Martial secondary for a while, and haven't been quite sure what to do with it. The relatively recent rework of Telekinesis is calling to me - it's time for another Mind dom!

 

I know Envenomed Blades gets poo poo'd a bit out there these days, but the fact that it has some juicy +tohit that can be perma'd is a prime opportunity to optimize for procs. The damage from the global toxic proc is just gravy.

 

As is tradition with most of my doms these days, I avoid focusing on softcap, and instead leave room for controls to handle incoming damage. Other combinations of Mind I've played in the past have had no issues with this, especially with careful play, which is something Mind is especially good at. You can really juggle spawns and manage aggro quite well when solo.

 

I'd love your review and perspective!

 

Goals:

• Perma envenomed blades, and permadom of course. I'm okay relying on a FFback proc here and there to bridge the gap. I'm 5 seconds shy on envenomed with no FFback hitting, which should easily be overcome with even minimal FFback fires.
• Squeeze all the sweet proc juice out of every power where it matters.
• Max hit chance against +3s even while doing so.
• Maximize slow resist.
• A side dish of as much ranged defense as I can grab while getting there.
• Keep with the Psionic Ninja theme. I don't think I'd go for a different epic for this reason, though am open to suggestions if you see a strong synergy.

 

Concerns:

• I've seen mixed data on trick shot. I get the basic idea (chains up to 5 targets, fire and forget), but am not sure on how well it procs. Do the chains actually benefit from the procs? Other chains like chain induction don't take well to procs. I'm pretty happy with the DPA even single target here - it seems like a pretty nice power.
• Spinning Kick. This seems a bit finicky, and I'm not sure if it would mesh with my playstyle for these types of builds. I currently have Psi nado in its place, serving a similar purpose (extra proccy aoe with FFback fun). Which would you pick? I do like being able to just splort out aoes without lining up cones once I'm past my opener, so that's something.
• World of Confusion is sort of a throwaway thematic pick here. I like the idea of a pretty pink ball surrounding me as I kick stuff, and maybe it will get a chance to stack confuse here and there. Alternatively, I could grab a lotg mule from indom will. Do you see any valuable one slot wonder alternatives? Caltrops is a good power, but perhaps not great in this specific kit.
• Explosive Shuriken seems like poo poo. Is it poo poo? Am I missing something here? Maybe I even consider dropping this for Spinning Kick. From what I see in CoD, this thing maybe does 23ish aoe damage enhanced. Why ever bother having this component? I guess it's an okay ST attack, but not really any better DPA than a proccy Spinning Kick. This is seriously the most disappointing dom T9 I've seen.
• Levitate vs Mesmerize. I went with Mes here for the little bit of sandman fun. Levitate isn't super competitive with my secondary attacks. However, perhaps I'm not giving enough credit to the special interaction with TK? Maybe I even drop Psi tornado entirely to eat its slots and put them into Levitate and leverage this interaction. I can see it being really helpful extra mitigation in my opener. Do you think it's a strong enough trick to invest into here?

 

Anticipated engagement plan:

• Open with Terrify to debuff and alpha some strong damage.
• TK to bunch the spawn.
• Combat TP in to start spamming aoes and kicking things in the face.
• If it's a really sticky enemy group, cycle total dom, mass confusion, and sprinkle in Confuse while doing the above. Otherwise rely on the fear alongside mitigation from knockdowns, using Mass Hyp as a pause button if things get out of hand.
• I will be running in hover with evasive maneuvers on most of the time. Supreme maneuverability alongside Combat TP!

 

Note that I have procs disabled for my FFback powers to better reflect recharge totals.

 

File:

Dominator (Mind Control - Martial Assault).mbd

Picture:

Spoiler

Text:

Spoiler

Villain Dominator
Build plan made with Mids' Reborn v3.7.5 rev. 21
──────────────────────────────

• Primary powerset: Mind Control
• Secondary powerset: Martial Assault
• Pool powerset (#1): Flight
• Pool powerset (#2): Leaping
• Pool powerset (#3): Speed
• Pool powerset (#4): Teleportation
• Ancillary powerset: Psionic Mastery

──────────────────────────────

Powers taken:

Level 1: Mesmerize

• A: Call of the Sandman: Chance of Heal Self

Level 1: Thunder Kick

• A: Superior Blistering Cold: Accuracy/Damage
• 33: Superior Blistering Cold: Damage/Endurance
• 48: Touch of Death: Chance of Damage(Negative)
• 50: Mako's Bite: Chance of Damage(Lethal)
• 50: Gladiator's Strike: Chance for Smashing Damage
• 50: Hecatomb: Chance of Damage(Negative)

Level 2: Dominate

• A: Basilisk's Gaze: Accuracy/Hold
• 3: Basilisk's Gaze: Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
• 3: Basilisk's Gaze: Accuracy/Recharge
• 48: Basilisk's Gaze: Endurance/Recharge/Hold

Level 4: Trick Shot

• A: Gladiator's Javelin: Accuracy/Damage
• 5: Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage(Toxic)
• 5: Apocalypse: Damage
• 15: Apocalypse: Chance of Damage(Negative)

Level 6: Confuse

• A: Coercive Persuasion : Confused
• 7: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Recharge
• 7: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Recharge/Accuracy
• 46: Coercive Persuasion : Recharge/Accuracy
• 46: Coercive Persuasion : Confused/Endurance
• 48: Coercive Persuasion : Contagious Confusion

Level 8: Mass Hypnosis

• A: Fortunata Hypnosis: Sleep/Recharge
• 9: Fortunata Hypnosis: Sleep/Recharge/Accuracy
• 9: Fortunata Hypnosis: Recharge/Accuracy
• 45: Fortunata Hypnosis: Sleep/Endurance
• 46: Fortunata Hypnosis: Chance for Placate

Level 10: Hover

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 12: Telekinesis

• A: Gravitational Anchor: Immobilize/Recharge
• 13: Gravitational Anchor: Immobilize/Recharge/Accuracy
• 13: Gravitational Anchor: Recharge/Accuracy
• 17: Gravitational Anchor: Immobilize/Endurance
• 43: Gravitational Anchor: Chance for Hold

Level 14: Combat Jumping

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 15: Reactive Defenses: Scaling Resist Damage

Level 16: Envenomed Blades

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 17: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 18: Total Domination

• A: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold/Recharge
• 19: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold/Recharge/Accuracy
• 19: Unbreakable Constraint: Recharge/Accuracy
• 42: Unbreakable Constraint: Hold/Endurance
• 43: Unbreakable Constraint: Chance for Smashing Damage

Level 20: Dragon's Tail

• A: Superior Avalanche: Accuracy/Damage
• 21: Superior Avalanche: Damage/Endurance
• 21: Eradication: Chance for Energy Damage
• 40: Obliteration: Chance for Smashing Damage
• 42: Armageddon: Chance for Fire Damage
• 42: Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge

Level 22: Terrify

• A: Annihilation: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 23: Annihilation: Chance for Res Debuff
• 23: Positron's Blast: Chance of Damage(Energy)
• 25: Javelin Volley: Chance of Damage(Lethal)
• 40: Bombardment: Chance for Fire Damage
• 40: Glimpse of the Abyss: Chance of Damage(Psionic)

Level 24: Hasten

• A: Invention: Recharge Reduction
• 25: Invention: Recharge Reduction

Level 26: Mass Confusion

• A: Superior Ascendency of the Dominator: Accuracy/Control Duration
• 27: Superior Ascendency of the Dominator: Control Duration/Recharge
• 27: Superior Ascendency of the Dominator: Endurance/Recharge
• 34: Superior Ascendency of the Dominator: Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance
• 37: Superior Ascendency of the Dominator: Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance/Recharge
• 37: Superior Ascendency of the Dominator: Recharge/Chance for +Damage

Level 28: Masterful Throw

• A: Sting of the Manticore: Damage/Endurance
• 29: Sting of the Manticore: Chance of Damage(Toxic)
• 29: Gladiator's Javelin: Accuracy/Damage
• 33: Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage(Toxic)
• 34: Apocalypse: Damage/Endurance
• 34: Cloud Senses: Chance for Negative Energy Damage

Level 30: Explosive Shuriken

• A: Superior Winter's Bite: Accuracy/Damage
• 31: Superior Winter's Bite: Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• 31: Superior Winter's Bite: Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime
• 31: Gladiator's Javelin: Chance of Damage(Toxic)

Level 32: Combat Teleport

• A: Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control: Chance for Build Up

Level 35: Link Minds

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• 36: Shield Wall: Defense/Recharge
• 36: Shield Wall: Defense/Endurance/Recharge
• 36: Shield Wall: +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

Level 38: Mind Over Body

• A: Gladiator's Armor: End/Resist
• 39: Gladiator's Armor: Resistance
• 39: Gladiator's Armor: TP Protection +3% Def (All)
• 39: Steadfast Protection: Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 41: Fly

• A: Winter's Gift: Slow Resistance (20%)

Level 44: Psionic Tornado

• A: Superior Frozen Blast: Accuracy/Damage
• A: Superior Frozen Blast: Damage/Endurance
• A: Positron's Blast: Chance of Damage(Energy)
• A: Bombardment: Chance for Fire Damage
• 45: Explosive Strike: Chance for Smashing Damage
• 45: Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge

Level 47: Evasive Maneuvers

• A: Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 49: World of Confusion

• A: Malaise's Illusions: Endurance/Confused

──────────────────────────────

Inherents:

Level 1: Brawl

• (Empty)

Level 1: Domination

Level 1: Sprint

• (Empty)

Level 2: Rest

• (Empty)

Level 1: Swift

• (Empty)

Level 1: Health

• A: Panacea: +Hit Points/Endurance
• 37: Miracle: +Recovery

Level 1: Hurdle

• (Empty)

Level 1: Stamina

• A: Performance Shifter: Chance for +End
• 33: Performance Shifter: EndMod

Level 49: Quick Form

Level 44: Afterburner

 

Chunk:

Spoiler

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Edited December 15 by Onlyasandwich

[Onlyasandwich]

I continue to tool around with this, and have an alternate build I'm considering. Not sure what I like best!

 

Dominator (Mind Control - Martial Assault) levitate version w unleash.mbd

• Here I dropped Combat TP (sadness), Fly, and Evasive in favor of grabbing Unleash Potential. Hover swapped for Stealth.
• I also dropped Explosive Shuriken in favor of Levitate. 

 

Advantages:

• Levitate fits into my opener, giving me a reliable aoe soft control to keep myself safe at the intro as I follow up on Terrify. As a ST filler, it's slightly less DPA than Explosive Shuriken, but has a strong control element and is available at lower levels. Should be minimal usage in rotation at high levels. I could juice its damage ~40 more with more ED, which actually makes it stronger DPA that Explosive, but value the resist spread.
• Unleash lets me hit softcap on ranged defense some of the time, and benefits from the high global recharge and FFback present in the build. With this, I can handle spawns by rotating Mass Confusion, Total Dom, and Unleash, giving me a more sustainable strategy for mob groups where my soft controls aren't enough.
• Stealth is thematic and sometimes useful when stacked with the celerity +stealth in sprint.

 

Disadvantages:

• No Combat TP! I love combat TP. However, jousting in with Combat Jumping should be just fine.
• I ate my extra end support slots in Health/stamina to slot out Unleash. This puts me at 2.18/sec positive if you account for average performance shifter and Panacea procs. Domination refills should bridge the gap for the most part, but timing won't always work to rely on this, and the procs are great on average, but may hit some dry streaks. I'm hoping that dom refills alongside the higher recovery from Unleash windows will be enough.
• A bit less slow resistance in favor of optimal levitate slotting.

 

If I could somehow steal 3 slots without sacrificing anything important, I could plug up all these concerns. 

 

What approach would you take with these goals?

 

 

 

[Uun]

I've done Mind/ and /Martial but not together.

• Trick Shot chains pretty well but I haven't tried procs in it. According to the PPM calculator, the chance would be 17% for a 3.5 PPM proc.
• Dom Psi Mastery has one of the better versions of Psi Nado, as all the damage is up front. That said, Spinning Kick isn't very finicky as it doesn't require a target - it just hits whoever is in front of you. Between the two, I would go with Spinning Kick simply because it has a 10s recharge vs 40s for Psi Nado.
• World of Confusion is hot garbage. It has a 1.5s duration but pulses every 4s, so no amount of slotting will make the effect perma. Using it with just 1 slot seems pointless. I do have 1-slotted Caltrops in my /Martial build, primarily for soft control. 
• If you drop WoC and Psi Nado, I would switch to Ice epic.
• Don't think of Exploding Shuriken as an AoE. The splash damage is minimal. It is disappointing as a T9, but the ST damage is decent for a ranged attack.
• The advantage Mesmerize has over Levitate is that the sleep is autohit and AV resistance doesn't include sleep protection. I don't currently have Levitate in my build but haven't respeced since the change to TK.

[Onlyasandwich]

31 minutes ago, Uun said:

World of Confusion is hot garbage.

 

Agreed! I just had it in there for funsies. Even on such a confuse heavy build, it's not likely to provide much benefit with its short duration and low chance to proc. Axing it also frees up a little end consumption. I did find something useful to mule in by dropping it! Grant Invis is whatever, but muling my +res unique frees up a slot, giving me juice for extra damage and slow resist in Levitate.

 

I typically choose Mesmerize somewhere along the way for my controllers (and sometimes tanks in the APP) for the reason you share here. However, with Perma-dom, Mass Hypnosis ends up serving the same purpose on a pretty short cooldown.

 

I'm liking the Levitate sub for Explosive more and more. With my current slotting, Levitate does the same DPA as Explosive, with the added benefit of the aoe combo when using TK. At worst I think it's an even trade, and lets me play with one of Mind's newer fun tricks. I do wish Explosive were more convincing - the animation is really nice. If it were a 1 sec animation, did like 20% more damage, or had a more substantial aoe portion, it would be a tougher choice.

 

Thank you for the perspective on Spinning Kick as well! I think I'll give it a try on the way up and see how I like it. Proccing it out how I want will likely involve sacrificing some more slow resist, and potentially a FFback though. The balance may end up in favor of nado, but we'll see. It's up in less than 15 seconds with my recharge, and closer to 10 with FFback firing.

 

Latest version:

Dominator (Mind Control - Martial Assault) levitate version w unleash.mbd

 

Swapping Psi nado for Spinning kick:

Dominator (Mind Control - Martial Assault) levitate version w unleash w spin.mbd

 

Spinning Kick wouldn't be entirely out of place in my ST chain given its higher DPA, and introduces FFback there as well, so that's worth considering. On my other build, it would be silly to spam DT or Nado on an AV. Psi nado has a massively larger area and target count though. There is something to be said for the feel of snappy kicks! Historically Psi nado, though effective, doesn't always feel great to me. I do lose some damage in Dragon's tail, as I have to use a less optimal Winter ATO to save it for Spinning Kick.

Edited December 15 by Onlyasandwich

[Wimbochismo]

Another great series of builds, Only! You definitely take proccing to another level. I've got a Plant/Martial I run with.

 

I think that your analysis of the "Concerning" powers is spot on. Trick Shot and most chains end up being semi-decent single target attacks with enough extra recharge to be elevated by proccing, at least on the initial first target. It has the same dpa as Shuriken Throw for instance. The extra aoe is a nice bonus and in this case it happens very quickly, I find the sound is also satisfying. Explosive Shuriken is also a nice single target attack if you don't have anything else better available.

 

On my own character I went with my normal more full slotting bonuses for ranged defense and recharge. Martial can have a full ranged attack rotation with a mix of melee as well. One thing to look out for though is power recharge.

 

The recharge times are definitely providing great proc opportunities, but it may be penalizing your attack rotation. In your first build for instance, you had less of a single target rotation and more of a single target priority of what becomes available next. Using the same build as an example, Thunder Kick would recharge in 2.72s which means you need 2 attacks as filler before it becomes available again. Masterful Throw comes in at 7.77s recharge which means it isn't available when it's turn comes up again.

 

31 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

Latest version:

 

 

I also think the best way to fix this is your latest iteration. Levitate recharges much faster than Explosive with much the same dpa. It's also serving a similar purpose to the small aoe that Explosive has. Masterful Throw still has a 7.55s recharge which falls outside of the normal rotation. Trick-Thunder-Lev almost lines up, with Trick being ~.7s out of rotation.

[Onlyasandwich]

57 minutes ago, Wimbochismo said:

I also think the best way to fix this is your latest iteration. Levitate recharges much faster than Explosive with much the same dpa. It's also serving a similar purpose to the small aoe that Explosive has. Masterful Throw still has a 7.55s recharge which falls outside of the normal rotation. Trick-Thunder-Lev almost lines up, with Trick being ~.7s out of rotation.

Thanks for your further input, Wimbochismo!

 

I'm liking the Spinning Kick swap (dropping Psi nado) more and more. It helps fill in the ST rotation with less reliance on Levitate, and keeps FFback running in ST as well. Levitate is still decent filler with a nice alternate use all the while.

 

In normal play, I'm okay with a less than seamless ST rotation. A decent amount of time is taken re-applying controls and repositioning after all! 

 

The only thing I would potentially improve from here I think would be finding a way to work end support back into Health/stamina. We'll see how it drives once put together - may not be a problem. Finding a slot of the PM proc would be nice too, but I think I'm eating at the bones on spare slots from here.

 

I cooooould drop indom will and lose a lotg, swapping in Misdirection. I've never played with it before. 7.5% global recharge versus 12.75 aoe -res every ~70ish seconds. Sort of interesting to play with! The Placate is whatever with Mass Hyp already in my pocket, but it may be neat. Phase Shift is another possibility. The ultimate back-up plan!

 

 

 

Edited December 15 by Onlyasandwich

[Frosticus]

I can't imagine anyone that has actually tried dominator WoC on a melee build saying many negative things about it, but as always ymmv.

 

[Onlyasandwich]

2 hours ago, Frosticus said:

actually tried dominator WoC

Well dang that does look pretty nice. I'll mess around on test and figure things out 🙂.

 

If I take it back, the question becomes - Contagious Confusion proc in Confuse or in WoC?

 

Confuse is typically a tool I find myself using more often at lower levels, and the passive nature of WoC is nice. I don't know - no perfect answers here! I may just keep my current version that chooses Phase Shift instead. 

 

Edit: For anyone that may be interested - here's what I settled on.

 

Dominator (Mind Control - Martial Assault) levitate version w unleash.mbd

 

I dropped a little slow res to better optimize DT procs, and picked up some extra end support along the way with my new slotting there. Nice to save money on cheaper pieces too. Spinning Kick is in, Psi Nado is out. Phase Shift is my final one slot wonder. Phase Shift is awesome, and I don't often find myself in a place where I can grab it easily. In the worst case, I can go into phase and wait for a big control to come off recharge. Sure I could do more or less the same with the START power Ethereal shift, but it feels better to truly have it in my kit.

Edited December 16 by Onlyasandwich

[Frosticus]

I almost never use my single target confuse on anything other than symphony.  So contagious is a waste there imo.

[tidge]

On 12/15/2024 at 11:17 PM, Frosticus said:

I almost never use my single target confuse on anything other than symphony.  So contagious is a waste there imo.

 

IMO...

 

Coercive Persuasion is a great set to 6-slot.

 

World of Confusion is hot garbage.

 

The advantage of the %Contagious Confusion piece in a single-target Confuse is that occasionally you will get multiple targets confused.

 

The advantage of the %Contagious Confusion piece in an AoE Confuse (attack, not WoC) is that a side-effect of the RNG is that even targets missed by the initial AoE are very likely to get hit with the Contagious Confusion.

 

The disadvantage of slotting the entire Coercive Persuasion set in an AoE confuse is that you can't include any %damage pieces, and even a little %damage done via the initial AoE gets you on the chance to get drops, even if those %damaged enemies get 'one shotted' by their confused allies.

 

Trade-offs!

[Frosticus]

If you spam your st confuse then that is your playstyle. I don't play passively. I also don't chase a 5% ranged def bonus on an AT that has no defense and is better focused on aoe mez and damage.

 

I've put up tons of vids for my earth/psi/psi, the approach works extremely well. WoC is a bad choice for a passive ranged build, no question about that.

 

Ymmv.

[Onlyasandwich]

In all honestly I don't use my ST confuses that often, but pick them more often than not when available.

 

Reasons:

• Low level play where I don't have good aoe controls to rotate.
• Farting around with buff mobs. (not always optimal, but fun)
• Just farting around, regardless of buff mobs. Sometimes it's fun to watch a boss murder his buddies and take a nap myself.
• Challenging content that I can't otherwise overcome. In the worst case, stepping back to set up some confuses before engagement (no aggro for mind!) can let you pull of some wonderful stuff.
• Theoretically helpful on some starred content. I don't play much of this though.
• A place for coercive persuasion if I'm not going for Psi epic. I don't always (or even often) go for softcap on most characters these days, but even hitting a middle ground 30ish ranged defense can be meaningful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 02:09 PM by Onlyasandwich

[Onlyasandwich]

On 12/15/2024 at 12:36 PM, Uun said:

Spinning Kick

Just wanted to say - this suggestion was a real win!

 

Spinning kick isn't fiddly at all. It's sneakily good, and if anything less fiddly than a regular cone. I can get a feel for it and visualize where it will hit, and line things up more naturally rather than basing it on a targeted mob.

 

Between this and Trick shot, I'm really liking the aoe attacks that double as solid ST attacks. Neither of them are fireball, but it makes for really lean power management, and feels great in practice.

Edited Friday at 09:50 PM by Onlyasandwich