Optimal slotting for liquid nitrogen (arsenal)?

[brasilgringo]

Now that some time has gone by, has anyone figured out the optimal slotting for Liquid Nitrogen in Arsenal?

 

It looks like it should proc-bomb great in MIDS but in reality the procs don't seemt to trigger often? 

On the other hands, full-set slottings like Ice Mistral don't seem to do that much on the damage front?

[Death2Tyrants]

Area pulsing patches have a low chance to PROC as they check on cast followed by a check every 10s all modified for area. To my understanding the KD effect has a cooldown which is a prerequisite for the damage component of the power.

[Frosticus]

I use a single +5 slow.

That slow caps (1%away) 54s and helps better utilize the many patches.

[Maelwys]

It's basically a Set Mule. You want recharge and maybe some -Slow.
-RunSpeed/Slow Set IOs are the only ones that won't require a foe to be knocked on their ass for 0.5s before they can activate; but the PPM chance is a bit rubbish.

I stuck 5x Ragnaroks in it on my Dominator; purely for Global +Rech (they use Intuition Radial Alpha + so don't need extra -runspeed)
 

Edited Monday at 03:44 PM by Maelwys

[brasilgringo]

OK back to the drawing board on this troller, then.Controller (Arsenal Control - Kinetics) 2.mbd  Will swap em out.  Maybe the v3 attached.

 

Is it worth 5-slotting Ice Mistral (including the cold proc) for the recharge bonus and some slow & damage?  Does it have a to-hit check where you need to slot accuracy as well?  Or literally just 1-slot it like @Frosticus suggested and not count on it to really do any damage?

 

Controller (Arsenal Control - Kinetics) 3.mbd

Edited Monday at 04:07 PM by brasilgringo

[tidge]

I haven't used this primary, but my instinct would be to treat it like Caltrops... for which I have two (and one-half) weird strategies, and then a final likely approach

1. Single-slot wonder, focusing on recharge... possibly 2 slots if it is being really useful. (moar recharge)
2. Mix/match set bonuses and %proc, which out to reliably trigger on cast, something like:

 (A) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime

 (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime

 (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Damage/Recharge

 (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

 (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance for Damage (Cold)

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 

Because it is a 'puddle' it might work better with the sort of slotting I use for Corrosive Vial (more accuracy, more recharge, less endurance concerns)

 

 (A) Positron's Blast - Chance for Damage (Energy)

 (*) Bombardment - Chance for Damage (Fire)

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance for Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance for Damage (Cold)

 (*) Javelin Volley - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50+5

 

As a practical matter... I think ultimately the best use of slots in Liquid Nitrogen would be to hold a useful set for a set bonus. The base recharge time is a little long (90 sec) for my taste to try to use it as a source of %damage, although I can see the appeal for a Controller if it were available every 45 seconds.

[brasilgringo]

3 hours ago, tidge said:

I haven't used this primary, but my instinct would be to treat it like Caltrops... for which I have two (and one-half) weird strategies, and then a final likely approach

1. Single-slot wonder, focusing on recharge... possibly 2 slots if it is being really useful. (moar recharge)
2. Mix/match set bonuses and %proc, which out to reliably trigger on cast, something like:

 (A) Annihilation - Damage/RechargeTime

 (*) Annihilation - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime

 (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Damage/Recharge

 (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

 (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance for Damage (Cold)

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage (Lethal)

 

Because it is a 'puddle' it might work better with the sort of slotting I use for Corrosive Vial (more accuracy, more recharge, less endurance concerns)

 

 (A) Positron's Blast - Chance for Damage (Energy)

 (*) Bombardment - Chance for Damage (Fire)

 (*) Javelin Volley - Chance for Damage (Lethal)

 (*) Ice Mistral’s Torment - Chance for Damage (Cold)

 (*) Javelin Volley - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50+5

 (*) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50+5

 

As a practical matter... I think ultimately the best use of slots in Liquid Nitrogen would be to hold a useful set for a set bonus. The base recharge time is a little long (90 sec) for my taste to try to use it as a source of %damage, although I can see the appeal for a Controller if it were available every 45 seconds.

 

Folks above said not to proc it out with dmg procs. 

 

I think the real question is whether 5-slotting it with Ice Mistral (including the cold proc, which apparently procs more due to being related to a slow in this power?) is worth it for the set bonus & the damage proc as well as the potential for some extra slow and damage (especially +5'd IOs), vs

 

(a) either 5-slotting it with Ragnarok for a bit more recharge & accuracy buffs (vs Ice Mistral) (and or including Ragnarok chance for KB proc) - or

(b) simply 1-2 slotting it and freeing up some other slots. 

 

I already moved 1 slot from my prior 6-slotting to be Build-Up Chance proc in the tri-cannon pet.

 

[tidge]

25 minutes ago, brasilgringo said:

 

Folks above said not to proc it out with dmg procs.

 

 

As I wrote, I don't have direct experience with Liquid Nitrogen... but I expect it to act like other AoE and trigger the %proc on cast... it appears to be a rather large AoE with a 10-target cap.... but the cycle time is pretty miserable. The non-intuitive thing about powers like this (patches, puddles... most pseudopets) is that they work better (for %proc) if the power itself has accuracy slotted in it. Sometimes folks just load the power with %damage pieces and get frustrated when they don't see them proc.

 

For these sorts of damage-over-time powers, I never count on any %proc damage from the 'ticks', just on-cast.

 

 

[Maelwys]

On 1/6/2025 at 8:05 PM, tidge said:

 

As I wrote, I don't have direct experience with Liquid Nitrogen... but I expect it to act like other AoE and trigger the %proc on cast...

 

The problem with that it's a pseudopet with all of its inherent damage hidden behind an "if...then" mechanic so that it only gets an opportunity to trigger if the targeted creature has already been subjected to a knockdown effect for 0.5 seconds. See here and note the green exclamation marks against most of the effects on the bottom right.

 

All of the power's base damage plus any regular damage procs won't get a chance to trigger in it until the foe gets knocked down.

The only component of the power that isn't gated in this manner is the -RunSpeed effect, so technically damage procs from the Slow sets can bypass the knockdown prerequisite... however it's a pseudopet with a big radius so Proc chance is rubbish regardless. 

 

Therefore IMO either use it for Muling set bonuses or just stick a common recharge IO in the base slot.

[EDIT: Testing shows all types of damage procs get an opportunity to trigger regardless of the knockdown. The chance is still pretty rubbish though]
 

Edited 14 hours ago by Maelwys

[Death2Tyrants]

1 hour ago, brasilgringo said:

 

Folks above said not to proc it out with dmg procs. 

 

I think the real question is whether 5-slotting it with Ice Mistral (including the cold proc, which apparently procs more due to being related to a slow in this power?) is worth it for the set bonus & the damage proc as well as the potential for some extra slow and damage (especially +5'd IOs), vs

 

(a) either 5-slotting it with Ragnarok for a bit more recharge & accuracy buffs (vs Ice Mistral) (and or including Ragnarok chance for KB proc) - or

(b) simply 1-2 slotting it and freeing up some other slots. 

 

I already moved 1 slot from my prior 6-slotting to be Build-Up Chance proc in the tri-cannon pet.

 

 

TLDR Enhance for Slow at minimum. Slow PROCs seem to be your best chance if they work at all.

 

The quickest answer for you is pull data logs from your combat chat (most likely pet chat) regarding PROC damage for your current configuration. @Carnifax has a web based parsing tool in his signature that will present the PROC data in a chart and a table to determine what is currently working best in this power.

 

I think someone on the Dom or Open Beta board tested out and logged the best Arsenal/ PROCs in a post somewhere and LN didn't perform well from what I recall. Can't find the post for the life of me. It may have been in the general AT board.

 

 

Min slotting:

As a Controller, since the set lacks an AoE Immob to keep things in patches, I think the Slow enhancement others recommended is the minimum essential option for this reason.

 

Potential PROC Slotting:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=controller_control.arsenal_control.liquid_nitrogen&at=controller

 

What I think @tidge is likely pointing out is the power's long recharge gives the initial hit a high chance to PROC even though the follow on checks are on 10s checks/cooldown.  Through this lens you can treat the power as a standard AoE power for this evaluation since you only care about the initial hit; the follow on hits are just gravy.

 

Now I could be wrong but I think the Slow (Movement Snare) is the only component of the power that isn't conditional on KD event; probably doesn't matter since  the Slow effect  is "100%".. You will still want Accuracy in the power if you PROC it out for the PROC(s) to hit.  In this case the Slow sets PROCs are likely to be the best option for this set up.

 

For discussion I think this is the best way to look at flat AoE damage PROCS as I understand them. If I am wrong please correct me. The LNs AoE Damage can only occur after the 8% chance to KD occurs (the exclamation point in the CoD entry states only after .5s KD).  So AoE PROCs only trigger after KD and AoE damage occur.

 

So under normal situation for an standard AoE attack (no patch) the PROC rates are determined by the quality of the PROC (higher PPM is better), the power's modified enhanced recharge time (higher recharge is better for higher chance) and the area of the powers effect (smaller is better). So lets say a 45s recharge power grants a 70% chance to PROC. In our case it would be 70% after the 8%.  .7 X ,08 comes out to 5,6% per tick. So this power ticks twice after initial giving you three checks total for the life of the power. So in this example the AoE PROCs would only have a ~16% chance to PROC at least once per target over the life of the power. Since the Slows aren't conditional I would expect the Slow PROC of the same quality to have a very high chance to PROC at 70% the PROCs each check which means you are all but guaranteed to hit each target at least once during the life of the power.

 

 

[Frosticus]

It triggers interface damage regardless of successful knock. That isn't related to slotting, but it shows it can probably roll damage procs without meeting the condition required for the patch itself to deal damage (ie knockback resistant enemies)

 

On my arsenal builds I haven't seen it do enough damage to warrant damage slotting and it doesn't proc well enough to dedicate the slots to it that are better spent elsewhere in the build. It is however the only control primary patch that has enhancable slow, which ime is very valuable. But ymmv.

[Maelwys]

23 hours ago, Frosticus said:

It triggers interface damage regardless of successful knock. That isn't related to slotting, but it shows it can probably roll damage procs without meeting the condition required for the patch itself to deal damage (ie knockback resistant enemies)

Looks like this is indeed the case actually...