Arsenal/Marine thoughts & comments

[Uun]

I'm nearing lvl 50 on my Arsenal/Marine and I'm looking to nail down the final build. Most of this is currently in place (currently lvl 47) and all I have yet to place are the final 6 slots (Cryo Freeze Ray, Flash Bang, Maneuvers, Soul Drain and Tactics) and Vengeance. I've played around with the slotting quite a bit on the way up, so here are my observations. This is definitely a combination that's slot hungry. Interested in people's thoughts and suggestions.

 

Shoal Rush: I'm aware that many skip this, but the extra buff/debuff from Tide Pool Frenzy is nice and the -def is useful against things like Rikti Drones and venged Nemesis. Not sure that I'm getting much mileage out of the procs (PPM spreadsheet says they should have a 30% chance to fire).

 

Sleep Grenade: This is a patch so you don't want to slot procs. Damage is quite good for a controller AoE, especially with containment.

 

Liquid Nitrogen: Had this slotted with 2 recharge IOs leveling up and switched to 2 end/rech/slow HOs when I hit 47. The slow and the knockdown is somewhat redundant with Tide Pool, but it's useful if I need to control 2 areas.

 

Whitecap: I've got this slotted with 2 acc/rech and 2 %dmg procs. The base recharge is 30s, so the recharge enhancements shouldn't hurt the proc chances that much. This power also applies a 30s -res (higher within 8 ft radius).

 

Soothing Wave: This doesn't really need 6 slots but I'm just going for the set bonuses. 

 

Brine: Applies 22.5% -res (non-stacking) and -235 hp (enhanceable and stackable), both for 60s. Each stack of Shifting Tides cuts the recharge by 15s. This really shreds hard targets.

 

Shifting Tides: I've tried several different slottings for this. First off, this toggle requires a lot of endurance. I tried a Ranged AoE set but the damage isn't worth enhancing. I tried the %bu proc but it didn't fire much. The slotting I've got works OK but I'm open to alternatives.

 

 

Uunderwater - Controller (Arsenal Control - Marine Affinity).mbd

[Maelwys]

55 minutes ago, Uun said:

Sleep Grenade: This is a patch so you don't want to slot procs.

Honestly, I found the reverse to be true.

Sleep Grenade is one of those messy complex powers that has multiple components and conditional statements.
https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=controller_control.arsenal_control.sleep_grenade&at=controller
It spawns a pseudopet with an ongoing Patch effect that applies a repeating Slow effect plus a repeating Mag3 Sleep effect (as long as the target has been attacked recently)... but there's also separate brief spike of AoE burst damage that doesn't repeat. When slotted with both Slow and Targeted AoE IO set damage procs; they'll all have reasonable chances to proc initially, then the Slow procs will also have a low chance to proc after 10 and 20 seconds. Even unslotted for duration the sleep ticks will keep a regular +3 LT permamezzed; so the only thing it needs is a bit of accuracy which leaves plenty of room for procs.

Mine looks like this:


And performs like this on the initial hit (quick shot into a random mob of Nemesis goons in PI)


The only other powers in Arse Control I bother proccing are Cryo Freeze Ray and the Tricannon; but Sleep Grenade is up every spawn and pulls a lot of weight.

[Carnifax]

On 3/21/2025 at 4:10 PM, Uun said:

Shifting Tides: I've tried several different slottings for this. First off, this toggle requires a lot of endurance. I tried a Ranged AoE set but the damage isn't worth enhancing. I tried the %bu proc but it didn't fire much. The slotting I've got works OK but I'm open to alternatives.

 

Shifting Tides slotted up for damage on an team will do ~twice the damage of Hotfeet. And apply buffs / debuffs as well. Slot it for Acc, Dam & End reduction. Chance for Build Up seems to go off a lot on it too, so lob that in there. Note it's hard for me to quantify the Chance to Build-up because it doesn't seem to be logged, but I've seen my damage raised by it a fair amount viewing Combat Attribs. 

 

On 3/21/2025 at 4:10 PM, Uun said:

Whitecap: I've got this slotted with 2 acc/rech and 2 %dmg procs. The base recharge is 30s, so the recharge enhancements shouldn't hurt the proc chances that much. This power also applies a 30s -res (higher within 8 ft radius).

As many procs as possible. Forced Feedback is also great in here. 

 

Brine and Soothing Wave look overslotted to me. I literally just have an Acc in Brine and 2 +5 Heal IOs in Soothing. That frees up slots. It'd be nice to have max -HP in Brine for AVs (although I haven't checked how much in numbers that affects an AV) but I just didn't have the space. Whitecap is my main "-Resist" power. Brine is just occasional if a Boss is being tough or an EB/AV is about. 

 

I'd definitely remove slots from them to get into Whitecap and Shifting Tides. This is my slotting for them

 

(Just Acc, Dam and End in Shifting, whatever IOs you like + the Chance for Build-up). 

 

I also checked Panacea in Barrier Reef vs Health and in terms of applying the End to me Health seemed the better option overall. 

 

Here's a LGTF parse I ran on Thursday, green areas are the procs in Whitecap. It adds up!

 

 

Edited Monday at 09:56 AM by Carnifax

[Uun]

Appreciate the insights. I'm going to try running the parser on team play. I've primarily been trying to dissect performance of powers during solo play. 

 

With respect to Shifting Tides, I'm confused as to how the damage works. The CoD page lists 15.2928 cold damage after 0.5s (plus 25% chance for an additional 15.2928 with Rising Tide). The power has a 0.1s activate period. Does the damage repeat every 0.1s after 0.5s or does it only apply once? The damage is flagged to apply to all affected targets, but is also flagged to apply only to the main target. I would assume that it should hit all foes in the 25 ft radius, but I'm not seeing orange numbers to support this. Does it matter whether Shifting Tides is placed on an ally or a foe? (I've found I can more reliably get the Brine recharge buff when it's placed on a foe, but I reserve this for AV/EBs.)

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=controller_buff.marine_affinity.shifting_tides&at=controller

[Auroxis]

21 minutes ago, Uun said:

Appreciate the insights. I'm going to try running the parser on team play. I've primarily been trying to dissect performance of powers during solo play. 

 

With respect to Shifting Tides, I'm confused as to how the damage works. The CoD page lists 15.2928 cold damage after 0.5s (plus 25% chance for an additional 15.2928 with Rising Tide). The power has a 0.1s activate period. Does the damage repeat every 0.1s after 0.5s or does it only apply once? The damage is flagged to apply to all affected targets, but is also flagged to apply only to the main target. I would assume that it should hit all foes in the 25 ft radius, but I'm not seeing orange numbers to support this. Does it matter whether Shifting Tides is placed on an ally or a foe? (I've found I can more reliably get the Brine recharge buff when it's placed on a foe, but I reserve this for AV/EBs.)

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=controller_buff.marine_affinity.shifting_tides&at=controller

The damage is dealt only if Shifting Tides was triggered by a Hit from you or any of your allies on the target. The chance to trigger Shifting Tides is increased by the number of Shifting Tide buff stacks by said ally or self, up to 50% at full stacks. This is capped at 0.1 activations per seconds, and comes from you, the caster.

 

In other words, whenever you or an ally attacks and successfully hits a target affected by Shifting Tides, you have up to a 50% chance to trigger the Shifting Tides proc on it, but only one activation every 0.1s will deal damage. Pet classes are beneficial for this as they have more chances to proc Shifting Tides, but this is counterbalanced by them having lower damage scalars for it.

[Maelwys]

40 minutes ago, Uun said:

With respect to Shifting Tides, I'm confused as to how the damage works. The CoD page lists 15.2928 cold damage after 0.5s (plus 25% chance for an additional 15.2928 with Rising Tide). The power has a 0.1s activate period. Does the damage repeat every 0.1s after 0.5s or does it only apply once? The damage is flagged to apply to all affected targets, but is also flagged to apply only to the main target. I would assume that it should hit all foes in the 25 ft radius, but I'm not seeing orange numbers to support this. Does it matter whether Shifting Tides is placed on an ally or a foe? (I've found I can more reliably get the Brine recharge buff when it's placed on a foe, but I reserve this for AV/EBs.)

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=controller_buff.marine_affinity.shifting_tides&at=controller

AFAIK the way it functions currently is that a target affected by Shifting Tides can get that Cold Damage triggered on them once every 0.1 seconds. And every single attack made by all entities attacking that target will trigger a separate opportunity for this damage to activate. So "the more things attacking and the more attacks being made, the better". That cold damage is affected by damage boosts (like slotting damage enhancement aspect into Shifting Tides, and any buffs like Red Insps and Tide Pool and Fulcrum Shift) and -resistance debuffs (Whitecap, Brine, -res IO procs)... but the Shifting Tide power itself counts as a wide radius toggle for the purposes of proc IOs; so slotting damage procs into it will have very little benefit. Go with capped ED damage instead.

[Edit: pipped to the post by @Auroxis who summed it up better anyway!]
 

Edited Monday at 03:07 PM by Maelwys

[Uun]

56 minutes ago, Auroxis said:

The damage is dealt only if Shifting Tides was triggered by a Hit from you or any of your allies on the target. The chance to trigger Shifting Tides is increased by the number of Shifting Tide buff stacks by said ally or self, up to 50% at full stacks. This is capped at 0.1 activations per seconds, and comes from you, the caster.

 

In other words, whenever you or an ally attacks and successfully hits a target affected by Shifting Tides, you have up to a 50% chance to trigger the Shifting Tides proc on it, but only one activation every 0.1s will deal damage. Pet classes are beneficial for this as they have more chances to proc Shifting Tides, but this is counterbalanced by them having lower damage scalars for it.

Does it make a difference if the Shifting Tides toggle is placed on a pet (i.e., Barrier Reef or Tri-Cannon), an ally or on the targeted foe, or does the foe just have to be in the AoE? 

[Auroxis]

12 minutes ago, Uun said:

Does it make a difference if the Shifting Tides toggle is placed on a pet (i.e., Barrier Reef or Tri-Cannon), an ally or on the targeted foe, or does the foe just have to be in the AoE? 

The foe just has to be in the AoE. A common solo strategy is placing the toggle on barrier reef which follows you closely.

[Uun]

2 minutes ago, Auroxis said:

The foe just has to be in the AoE. A common solo strategy is placing the toggle on barrier reef which follows you closely.

That's what I do, but then I have to reapply it every 4 min. I've tried putting it on Tri-Cannon, but it tends to stay at range and is often too far away.

 

Does slotting accuracy in Shifting Tides (as part of a Ranged AoE set) do anything? It doesn't accept accuracy enhancements, so would dmg/end HOs be the way to go?

[Auroxis]

55 minutes ago, Uun said:

That's what I do, but then I have to reapply it every 4 min. I've tried putting it on Tri-Cannon, but it tends to stay at range and is often too far away.

 

Does slotting accuracy in Shifting Tides (as part of a Ranged AoE set) do anything? It doesn't accept accuracy enhancements, so would dmg/end HOs be the way to go?

There is no hit check involved for the proc from what i know (feel free to double check that), you just want dam/end and/or set bonuses. Defender and Corr can place their ATO buff/heal procs there however.

 

Edit: Also you want the gauss proc there.

Edited Monday at 05:23 PM by Auroxis

[Uun]

Here's the tweaked version I've got after hitting lvl 50 (without doing a respec). I moved some of the slots around to add more procs to Whitecap, Sleep Grenade and Dark Obliteration. I want to play this a bit more and get Alpha slotted before doing a respec.

Uunderwater - Controller (Arsenal Control - Marine Affinity).mbd

[Frosticus]

strongly recommend 5 damage procs in flashbang. 

Proc'd whitecap (needs fury -res and ffback)

Proc'd flashbang (5 dam procs,  +5 acc/rech)

Proc'd epic aoe (annihlation + dam procs)

 

That's good aoe by an AT's standards. I let smoke can do any extra controlling that is needed. Add in the huge safety and control that marine brings and there isn't much that will give you pause. 

[Maelwys]

11 hours ago, Frosticus said:

strongly recommend 5 damage procs in flashbang. 

Positron's Blast, Bombardment, Javelin Volley and Cloud Senses make 4... are you sticking an ATO in for the 5th?
(It has low base accuracy and can take up to 58.02% local recharge aspect before 3.5PPM procs get negatively impacted; so I lean towards 4x procs + 2x Acc/Stun/Rechs!)

[Auroxis]

53 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Positron's Blast, Bombardment, Javelin Volley and Cloud Senses make 4... are you sticking an ATO in for the 5th?
(It has low base accuracy and can take up to 58.02% local recharge aspect before 3.5PPM procs get negatively impacted; so I lean towards 4x procs + 2x Acc/Stun/Rechs!)

The Will of the Controller proc is a usual fit in those 90s cooldown damage CC's, as while it has recharge it's not enough to lower the proc rates on those (while it will usually lower proc rates on your single target attacks)

[Maelwys]

2 minutes ago, Auroxis said:

The Will of the Controller proc is a usual fit in those 90s cooldown damage CC's, as while it has recharge it's not enough to lower the proc rates on those (while it will usually lower proc rates on your single target attacks)

Aye but it's 5PPM; so always seems a shame not to put it in the lower recharge powers. But all's good as long as it's not the Energy Font... 😜

[Frosticus]

1 hour ago, Maelwys said:

Positron's Blast, Bombardment, Javelin Volley and Cloud Senses make 4... are you sticking an ATO in for the 5th?
(It has low base accuracy and can take up to 58.02% local recharge aspect before 3.5PPM procs get negatively impacted; so I lean towards 4x procs + 2x Acc/Stun/Rechs!)

 

Hitting 16 targets with a purple proc is generally > a single target application. 

 

The ATO carries 23.2% rech, a +5 acc/rech Purple stun another 41.1%

That gives you ~87% proc rate on the 3.5ppms in flashbang.

 

Flashbang has .85 base acc, between the 41% slotted, global acc, whatever tohit you run and maybe some shifting tides it will have no issues ever hitting.

 

As mentioned you have smoke can to handle any controlling that needs to be done. The goal is to quickly kill off as many things as possible, so the duration of the stun is not important as long as it last long enough to contain your epic aoe (and sleep nade if you use it). Smoke can is a top tier control power against 10 enemies or less that you are actively engaging. Poor understanding/documentation of the power has caused some confusion among the player base.