Rad/Dark Scrapper build - help and suggestions pls

[Vermithrix]

Hi all, I have put together the below build after I couldn't find anything else specific to scrapper. It is the best parts of a dark/dark brute build for the defense, and I pretty much made up the Rad side for offence. I have never put together a build before so any help would be appreciated before I attempt to create this incredibly expensive Scrapper. 

 

Towards the end I wasn't sure what to pick, but after struggling like crazy with endurance while levelling, I chose Energy Master. The Hover/Fly/Evasive seemed odd to me, but it was part of the build I was copying. Is there a better way to do that or is it viable?

 

I have seen builds that split the Scrapper specific unique enhancements - 3 of one and 3 of the other, across two different powers, but as I do not understand why you do it so I did not attempt to get too adventurous in that regard. I also don't know if the Irradiated Ground slotting is the way to go. Another option is to 6 Slot obliterate (referencing other builds I have seen).

 

I also note that the Cumulative totals for defense seem high and I am not sure they are accurate. 

 

I have a Rad/Dark Tanker, Brute and Scrapper all levelled up to 50 and ready to go, so I am just trying to nail down a build that might get one moving into higher end content. 

 

Thanks for any help.

 

 

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Edited April 6 by Vermithrix

[Uun]

• Death Shroud is a damage aura. Armageddon provides a ton of recharge (which it doesn't need) but not much end reduction (which it does). In fact, you skipped the end reduction piece. Switch Avalanche to Death Shroud and Armageddon to Atom Smasher.
• Dark Regeneration has a tohit check and requires accuracy. It also has a massive endurance cost and requires end reduction. Best option is the Theft of Essence set (including the %end proc). 
• Cloak of Fear has a huge accuracy penalty and even with 6 slots only fears minions. The tohit debuff isn't worth enhancing since you have no other sources of -tohit. Drop CoF and take Oppressive Gloom instead. OG doesn't need more than 1 acc in the base slot.
• Irradiated Ground was changed a year or two ago so that %dmg procs no longer have an inflated chance of firing. This should be slotted like a damage aura. Scirocco's Dervish acc/dmg, acc/dmg/end, dmg/end is the most efficient if you're already using Avalanche in Death Shroud.
• Focused Accuracy is a toggle and should be slotted for end red (and tohit). The %BU proc is a poor choice here and should be moved to Fusion. 

11 hours ago, Vermithrix said:

The Hover/Fly/Evasive seemed odd to me, but it was part of the build I was copying. Is there a better way to do that or is it viable?

It's fine if you want your character to fly. Otherwise, replace with Combat Jumping/Super Jump or whatever travel power you prefer.

 

11 hours ago, Vermithrix said:

I have seen builds that split the Scrapper specific unique enhancements - 3 of one and 3 of the other, across two different powers, but as I do not understand why you do it so I did not attempt to get too adventurous in that regard.

If you split the Superior Scrapper's Strike set you can double the 5% S/L defense bonus. Not really useful for you since you're not chasing typed defense and Dark Armor is a resist set. You're better off with the 6% S/L resist bonus for 6 pieces.

 

11 hours ago, Vermithrix said:

I also note that the Cumulative totals for defense seem high and I am not sure they are accurate. 

Check your options in Mid's on the Effects and Maths tab and select the "Attacked" box under Suppression. The defense from Evasive Maneuvers suppresses in combat. Personally, I wouldn't bother building for defense with Dark Armor. Dark Armor has no DDR (defense debuff resistance). All your defense can be stripped away quickly by foes that debuff defense. I wouldn't run Maneuvers or Evasive and would just use them as mules.

[Vermithrix]

Wow, that is awesome feedback Uun! Exactly what I was looking for. I have adjusted and tweaked the build a bit more moving away from defense and preferencing resistance. Got knockback protection up to 14 also which apparently is a big issue for Dark Armor.

 

Many thanks ;)

 

 

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Edited April 7 by Vermithrix

[Vermithrix]

Not sure if Devastating Blow is bugged, but it does not do damage as advertised. Its a huge detriment to the build atm as I thought it was going to be the main single target damage dealer. Hits like a wet noodle. Even Ice melee does more damage. 

[Uun]

47 minutes ago, Vermithrix said:

Not sure if Devastating Blow is bugged, but it does not do damage as advertised. Its a huge detriment to the build atm as I thought it was going to be the main single target damage dealer. Hits like a wet noodle. Even Ice melee does more damage. 

Not sure what you're seeing. I just confirmed that the power is working properly. Unslotted, Devastating Blow does 193 pts of damage (excluding bonus damage against Contaminated foes), which puts it in the upper half of the range for ST T8/T9 attacks. Top of the range is Energy Transfer with 285, but that's a unique power in that it does damage to you as well. Total Focus, Seismic Smash and Concentrated Strike do 223 but have a longer recharge. Freezing Touch only does 182, so Ice Melee doesn't do more damage. At the bottom of the range, Shatter, Golden Dragonfly and Eagles Claw do 143 but have a shorter recharge.

[Vermithrix]

Ok, I am getting into the swing of it. An absolute AOE monster that hits moderately hard single target. Probably (as some have said on other posts regarding Dark Armor), better suited Brutes or Tankers. Very much reminds me of Ice Melee for Scrapper in regards to AOE and single target. Endurance is an issue but I am getting the accolades together. Still testing limits but not a bad Scrapper and you definitely don't see many of them.

 

Regarding devastating blow, depending on the opponent, I was seeing some hits (without critical strike proc, no fusion), hit for around 200, which was very disappointing for a skill that takes so long to go off. Other times, it hits as intended. May have something to do with the split damage types. 

Edited Tuesday at 04:39 AM by Vermithrix

[Vermithrix]

I realise I am talking to myself at this stage, but in case someone stumbles across this in the future. Build has turned out to be very good and very tanky. Running 8x+4 missions vs Council, Carnival and RIkti with zero problems. Endurance is an issue, so I am running Ageless rather than Barrier and that has worked out very well. As Ageless falls off, if I am still mid fight, I pop conserve power. Arachnos endurance drain is a big pain currently - lessened by Ageless. Still working on that one. 

Oh, Dark Regeneration and Oppressive Gloom are ridiculously OP. Possibly broken. Atom Smasher is a crazy good talent they way I slotted it. Knockdown constantly and disoriented mobs via OG. Only gets sketchy when below happens, which I am not sure was bad luck. 

Big surprise was Circle of Thorns, which were harmless until I was hit with this:

 

Edited Tuesday at 12:05 PM by Vermithrix

[Uun]

2 hours ago, Vermithrix said:

Big surprise was Circle of Thorns, which were harmless until I was hit with this:

Circle of Thorns were revamped last year, particularly at high levels. This was one of the new additions.

[tidge]

Dark Armor is IMO a somewhat peculiar set; it's best purpose might be for characters that I don't want to spend a lot of time working on the costumes for.

 

The historic issue is Endurance, but since the recent Council revamp its lack of KB protection (and resistance) can be a real issue. Luckily because of the powers in the set it is pretty easy to slot in enough KB protection to handle even the 20-point KB from FREEM!

 

I only take Cloak of Fear or Oppressive Gloom if I want them for flavor or I have some synergy from them with other powers. The Accuracy needs of Cloak of Fear make it a particularly hard choice.

[FFTMime]

Man, I always forget dark doesn't have KB protect? I've never tried it, and the concept of it lacking it seems insane. 

[tidge]

38 minutes ago, FFTMime said:

Man, I always forget dark doesn't have KB protect? I've never tried it, and the concept of it lacking it seems insane. 

 

the good news is that Dark Armor has a power that is a natural fit for 3xFury of the Gladiator, and another for 3xGladiator's Armor for a total of 6 points. 2 more slots can get 8 more, and 14KB is good for 99% of the content, except for FREEM!. FREEM! protection requires 20, so it ends up being possible to get to 22 and then pretty much never having to worry about it. The SG base buff in 90 minutes of +10.

[Vermithrix]

The thing letting this build down is Rad melee. Its too slow and does not hit hard enough. Dev Blow needs to be basically instant like Energy Transfer on EM (with +Energy Focus buff). It doesn't need to hit as hard necessarily as Energy Transfer, but its certainly not going to be OP if its instant. Rad melee needs help.

[Erratic1]

44 minutes ago, Vermithrix said:

The thing letting this build down is Rad melee. Its too slow and does not hit hard enough.

 

?!?!?

 

Open up Mids and go to Powerset Comparison. You will find Rad Melee is one of the hardest hitting offense sets in the game. For raw damage it outperforms Battle Axe, which is definitely a hard hitting set. Rad Melee also outperforms Battle Axe for raw DPS. War Mace compares better in terms of raw damage, being roughly comparable, but again falls behind in terms of DPS. The only set I can think of which produces similar raw hit values is Energy Melee and the only set which leaps to mind for better DPS is Claws. Yes, Rad Melee hits slower than most other sets--that is its balancing factor which keeps it from just blowing other offensive sets out of the water. 

 

That all said, how a set feels is often meaningful to how enjoyable it is. For a similar feels but faster attack rate, I would suggest Energy Melee or Stone Melee.

[Vermithrix]

I've got a fully spec'ed out Claws/Bio and Axe/Stone scrapper. I will do some comparisons. 

 

edit: I know claws wont hit as hard on individual attacks - but yes, Claws is a near broken scrapper set. 

Edited Saturday at 03:49 PM by Vermithrix

[Maelwys]

4 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

?!?!?

 

Open up Mids and go to Powerset Comparison. You will find Rad Melee is one of the hardest hitting offense sets in the game. For raw damage it outperforms Battle Axe, which is definitely a hard hitting set. Rad Melee also outperforms Battle Axe for raw DPS.

IMO Damage/Anim is about the only useful metric in that view; and even then you really need to look at each set as a whole rather than whichever powers that Mids happens to match up with each other in isolation.

For example: 



Chop, Gash and Swoop and Cleave are BA's main Single Target attacks; so they should be compared with Contaminated Strike, Radioactive Smash, Radiation Siphon and Devastating Blow. Likewise Pendulum and Axe Cyclone should be compared with Proton Sweep and Atom Smasher (Irradiated Ground is bugged and doesn't show damage in Mids).

Just looking at high level and recognising which lines are overall longer will give a ballpark indication of which one is the better set; but for a true comparison you also then have to factor in things like which sets take stuff like additional Damage or -Res or FF procs; then eventually plot out required levels of global + local recharge for optimal attack chains and how that affects proc activation rate and Scrapper ATO placement.

(Spoiler Alert: FWIW in my experience RadM is mid tier at best for "non-AFK" AoE damage and near the bottom of the pack for Single Target Damage)

[Vermithrix]

Erratic1, you are correct. I hit the pylon with just standard attacks with nothing else turned on. All characters running Musculature Core Paragon. I ran all the numbers through AI. Results as follows:

The way the game separates out the smashing damage and radioactive damage must be the visual reason I didn't feel it was hitting hard. The speed of the set is certainly working against it however they way I have built my character is probably part of the problem.  I will keep working at it. Thanks for your input Erratic1. 

Attack Set 1: Beheader, Gash, Swoop, Cleave

From the second calculation (including both data sets):

• Beheader: 147
• Gash: 282
• Swoop: 345
• Cleave: 378

Attack Set 2: Radioactive Smash, Radiation Siphon, Devastating Blow

From the calculation for the provided data:

• Radioactive Smash: 221
• Radiation Siphon: 261
• Devastating Blow: 481

Attack Set 3: Strike, Slash, Focus, Follow Up

From the most recent calculation (recalculated data):

• Strike: 158
• Slash: 99
• Focus: 213
• Follow Up: 111

Final Answer

• Beheader/Gash/Swoop/Cleave: 147, 282, 345, 378
• Radioactive Smash/Radiation Siphon/Devastating Blow: 221, 261, 481
• Strike/Slash/Focus/Follow Up: 158, 99, 213, 111

[Erratic1]

7 hours ago, Maelwys said:

IMO Damage/Anim is about the only useful metric in that view; and even then you really need to look at each set as a whole rather than whichever powers that Mids happens to match up with each other in isolation.

 

Agreed.

 

7 hours ago, Maelwys said:

(Spoiler Alert: FWIW in my experience RadM is mid tier at best for "non-AFK" AoE damage and near the bottom of the pack for Single Target Damage)

 

Rad Melee definitely has some...drawbacks, just hitting hard is not one of them. I have two or three Rad Melee characters, and they are okay, but none of them really push the envelope.

 

I regret I did not do more with Stone Melee sooner, as it feels so much smoother while conveying a sense of pounding what you are fighting--though, if you are like me, you have to find a way to justify your power's appearance. While it also it not going to be an envelope pushing combination, I have had great fun working up a Stone Melee/SR scrapper. I wonder what I could do with Stone Melee paired with Ninjitsu or Shield. 

[Erratic1]

7 hours ago, Vermithrix said:

The way the game separates out the smashing damage and radioactive damage must be the visual reason I didn't feel it was hitting hard. The speed of the set is certainly working against it however they way I have built my character is probably part of the problem.  I will keep working at it. Thanks for your input Erratic1. 

 

While I never, across any of my characters, have played matched primary/secondary sets, it is a repeated observation that the weakness of either primary or secondary are usually somewhat negated by its opposite. Rad Melee, in my estimation, would seriously benefit from +Recharge, which is something Rad Armor provides. You could likewise get +Recharge in various forms from Energy Armor, Electric Armor, Super Reflexes, or Stone Armor.

 

It is somewhat of a shame Rad Melee does not come with more than one power which does Knockdown/Knockback, as that is another vector for +Recharge via Force Feedback. However, as Proton Sweep is a pretty miserable power, you could take Cross Punch to both give you more area damage capability and +Recharge.

 

Hmmm...I may have to try building to that end.

[Vermithrix]

I am pretty sure with Axe, I can get a a Swoop and a Cleave in the same time I can get one Dev Blow done. Possible even a Swoop, Cleave and Gash considering Axe flows very well. This offers more chances for crits and again potential for higher damage, even though DB hits harder, its just too slow I feel.

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Vermithrix said:

I am pretty sure with Axe, I can get a a Swoop and a Cleave in the same time I can get one Dev Blow done. Possible even a Swoop, Cleave and Gash considering Axe flows very well. This offers more chances for crits and again potential for higher damage, even though DB hits harder, its just too slow I feel.

 

Devastating Blow has a cast arcanatime of 2.904, 144.5171 Energy/48.1724 Smashing damage according to City of Data

 

Swoop is 1.452, 142.6402 Lethal damage

Cleave is 2.508, 172.6697 Lethal damage

 

 

So yes, Swoop + Cleave can be done in the time of a Devastating Blow, while delivering more than twice as much damage*. But then Battle Axe does not have a damage aura, or a mechanic to splash damage, or milk contamination for healing. I will say from a pure satisfaction standpoint I have enjoyed Battle Axe more than Radiation Melee.

 

 

 

 

*Devastating Blow is applying a Mag 3 Disorient (60% chance), guaranteed Contamination to the target, and lowering the target's Defense for 15 seconds versus Knockup (70% chance) and Knockdown (80% chance) for Swoop and Cleave. Consumption of Contamination by Devastating Blow will deliver 18 damage to up to 5 nearby targets--not a lot, though functionally a free hit and up to 90 more damage being dealt out.