Energy Cloak + Infiltration? Please help me understand.

[fxds]

I'm looking through some builds I found, trying to learn from them toward making my own builds. I found something I don't understand, so I'm hoping someone can clue me in. I'm looking at a Scrapper build that includes both Energy Cloak from the Energy Aura secondary and Infiltration from the Concealment pool. Both are slotted with LotG Def, Def/End, and Def/+Global Recharge, and Infiltration is additionally slotted with Kismet +Acc, GotA Def/Run Speed, and the Thrust Running Speed/Run Speed unique (which I'd never seen before). Not having ever used either of those powers I checked them on the wiki and immediately noted they both say they cannot be used with other concealment powers (little "c", not just the Concealment pool). I assume this means they cannot be used together. So why would a build include both?

 

The only explanation I can think of is based on two things. First, Energy Cloak retains at least some of it's Def bonus in combat, and second, I found a reference that says Infiltration is considered a travel power. And indeed the build does not include any other travel power (though that alone doesn't surprise me because a fair number of other builds I've looked at also omit travel powers, apparently just relying on Sprint + Athletic/Beast/Ninja Run). So perhaps Infiltration is meant to be used for travel around the city (and possibly while stealthing missions?) and Energy Cloak is intended for use in missions and combat. Does that make sense? Is Infiltration actually a decent travel power? But if it's being used for travel, why slot it for Def (specifically the LotG Def and Def/End enhancements)? I don't recall ever seeing travel powers slotted that way, but perhaps that's just because traditional travel powers can't slot Defense sets? Or perhaps it's to help with stealthing missions, because Infiltration doesn't lose its Def bonus when you're discovered, only when you attack? I should note the build takes Misdirection at level 47, so Infiltration (along with Grant Invisibility) also serves as a prerequisite. But I don't think it's just there as a prereq and mule for those various uniques, because then those two non-unique LotG enhancements wouldn't make any sense.

[MTeague]

I actually wish I could willingly disable the Stealth portion of Energy Cloak but Keep The Defense for my Energy Melee/Energy Aura Brute. No doubt there are players out there who rely on it, so I wouldn't want it blindly taken away period, but maybe a Null the Gull option?

 

But yes, for both powers, my assumption is the Stealth is handy to bypass somethings that just aren't worth your time, but most of the time, the Scrapper will be in Scrapperlock fighting, and is just taking the powers (a) for minior +Def All (which does not stink), and (b) to mule another LotG +7.5 recharge all.

[Psyonico]

It sounds like odd slotting choices.

 

Infiltration is indeed a travel power, and the defense bonus it goes completely goes away in combat, so there’s no good reason to run it in combat.

 

when I take Infiltration, I slot it with 2-3 Blessing of the Zephyr for the extra run and jump.

 

[The Trouble]

Kismet in Infiltration? 🤢  Of those two choices, Energy Cloak is the "correct" choice for that one.

 

I can understand the movement globals being in Infiltration, even if I wouldn't bother.  It's a perfectly fine travel power.  A LotG +Recharge there would be fine, too.  All that extra stuff is bizarre as all get out.  Sounds like a great way to waste both slots and endurance.

 

You're going to have to ask the person that made the build because their logic might transcend our universe.

[TheMoneyMaker]

Wasn't there a patch that addressed the overlapping stealth effects so they could work together? Or am I thinking of another server that did that?

[fxds]

57 minutes ago, The Trouble said:

You're going to have to ask the person that made the build because their logic might transcend our universe.

 

Aye, there's the rub. Several weeks ago I downloaded over twenty builds for various ATs and power sets that interested me, figuring I would look them all over to learn some (hopefully) relevant things. Unfortunately at this point I don't remember where all I found them, let alone the specifics of where I got each one. I should have made notes of that info. I know better. Sadly that doesn't stop silly ADD brain from being silly. Or just downright foolish, as was the case here.

[lemming]

Energy Cloak and Infiltration don't add their stealth values, but you can run them at the same time and just get the larger value.   Stealth with 55' works better though unless you want the movement bonuses.

 

I do have some characters that have builds before the stealth change and they no longer make sense.

[fxds]

43 minutes ago, TheMoneyMaker said:

Wasn't there a patch that addressed the overlapping stealth effects so they could work together? Or am I thinking of another server that did that?

 

While I was trying to figure it out before posting, I ran across a small section in the Issue 27 Page 5 release notes titled "Stealth Toggle Exclusivity Removal." It notes that multiple stealth toggles can now be run together, but the stealth effects don't stack. The game just uses the best one of the effects instead. And now as I'm typing that, I'm thinking I might have missed something. Even though the stealth doesn't stack, maybe the Def does? In that case there might be an advantage to running both toggles while trying to stealth through a mission to the objective, though I imagine you'd want to turn Infiltration off for combat rather than pay its End cost for nothing more than a movement boost. Or maybe people really like big movement boosts in combat? Personally I find they make me move so fast I overshoot, so they're actively detrimental to positioning myself the way I want. But that may just be a personal skill issue with my age-reduced reaction time.

 

[Psyonico]

I’m pretty sure, but may be mistaken, that the defense bonuses do not stack.  However, even if they do, I’m pretty sure infiltration loses *all* of its defense in combat.

 

 I’m also fairly certain that the movement bonuses suppress in combat the same way Athletic Run does.

[Jacke]

@Psyonico is mostly correct.

 

While not yet supporting changes after about the middle of 2024, CoD2 is still mostly good and is very useful when checking on these things.

 

Most of the icons on the pages have tooltips that will show up when the mouse hovers over them.

 

The important flag on Power Effects in this case to look for information on disabling are the red circles with a white bar through them.  The tooltips will say when the Effects are disabled or suppressed.  Examples:

• If the Effect is shared between team members, there'll be a white-on-blue icon of 3 people with the tooltip saying "Stacking is collective" (like the Achilles Heel -Resist Proc).
• If there's funking stacking rules, there will be an icon showing that, perhaps a yellow tag icon that provides a link to another CoD2 page.
  • Or for Travel Effects:
    • A green icon with the tooltip "Highest value suppresses others".
    • A white-key-on-blue icon that says in the tooltip "Stacks per / attribute by key / TravelBuff".

Here's the Scrapper Powers Energy Cloak and Infiltration (who's internal name is "invisibility" due to the history of the Concealment Pool):

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=scrapper_defense.energy_aura.energy_cloak&at=scrapper

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.invisibility.invisibility&at=scrapper

 

In combat, when clicking a glowie, or when mezzed by Hold, Stun, or Sleep, all the Effects of Infiltration are cancelled.  I don't have it on many Toons, but I have a keybind set up to stop all Movement Powers and Infiltration is in there, because it's wasting Endurance on a Power doing nothing at the moment.

 

Energy Cloak's Defense is only cancelled when mezzed by Hold, Stun, or Sleep.  Its stealth is suppressed by those mezs and when in combat.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 02:18 AM by Jacke

[tidge]

I've used Infiltration as a character's travel power, usually on really tight Blaster builds where I was going to otherwise "run out of pools" and needed some end-build mule powers for LotG, I might have a character that has a Kismet +ToHit in it (if taken at low enough level), but otherwise it is muling a Winter's Gift Slow Resist or a LotG.