Ironheart Trailer

[battlewraith]

17 minutes ago, Excraft said:

I don't believe I've ever used the word "hate" to describe the show. 

LOL umm no, but you did describe it as a steaming turd of a show. Those things tend to go together.

 

23 minutes ago, Excraft said:

It didn't get a second season.  That's a patently obvious fact as to the show not doing well.  

 

 

We were talking about streaming numbers, which were good. It out performed other shows on Disney+. The fact that it didn't get a second season doesn't negate that fact. 

As the article I posted indicates, other factors at the studio affect how and when they roll out shows. The decision not to continue Ironheart may have been made before the show even aired, in light of other priorities going on at Disney, and not reflective of how well the show was actually received. 

 

[Bionic_Flea]

Does Disney advertise any particular shows on Disney+?  I've seen ads for the streaming service and for the movie theater stuff, but I can't remember any for the individual shows. 

 

Wait!  I'm think I recall an ad for Daredevil.  But maybe that was during another Disney+ show.  I don't remember Were there ads for others?

[Ghost]

28 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Does Disney advertise any particular shows on Disney+?  I've seen ads for the streaming service and for the movie theater stuff, but I can't remember any for the individual shows. 

 

Wait!  I'm think I recall an ad for Daredevil.  But maybe that was during another Disney+ show.  I don't remember Were there ads for others?

Don’t know what ads D+ runs, but I know whenever they have something “big” coming up because my Roku Home Screen always get taken over with ads/posters.

[Excraft]

9 hours ago, battlewraith said:

LOL umm no, but you did describe it as a steaming turd of a show. Those things tend to go together.

 

So I never used the word "hate" to describe the show.  You're making things up.

 

9 hours ago, battlewraith said:

We were talking about streaming numbers, which were good. It out performed other shows on Disney+.

 

What is "good" in this instance?  Good compared to what?  What other programs did it outperform?  How did it compare to other MCU series?  

 

9 hours ago, battlewraith said:

The decision not to continue Ironheart may have been made before the show even aired, in light of other priorities going on at Disney, and not reflective of how well the show was actually received. 

 

Or Disney knew it wasn't good and decided to hold off on releasing it in the hopes their next couple of projects started reversing the already declining interest.  Once again, if Ironheart were a success, it would've have been renewed regardless of when it was released.  That's a fact.    

 

7 hours ago, Ghost said:

Don’t know what ads D+ runs, but I know whenever they have something “big” coming up because my Roku Home Screen always get taken over with ads/posters.

 

I did see ads of my Roku home screen for Ironheart, but they didn't last long.  It seemed to be gone in a day.  

[ShardWarrior]

14 hours ago, Starhammer said:

I don't mind some series being shorter if they get the job done and done well.

 

I agree, although I do not think there was enough story to add another 6 episodes or more.  The truncated season certainly was not a help to the show.

 

14 hours ago, Starhammer said:

Get quality out of a lower budget without big names with bigger egos demanding bigger paychecks.

 

So much this!  I mentioned Godzilla: Minus One in another thread and I think it a fitting example.  The whole film cost less to make than a single episode of She-Hulk, received excellent reviews and won an Oscar for VFX.  It is an excellent movie with a well crafted story if you have not seen it.

[battlewraith]

8 hours ago, Excraft said:

So I never used the word "hate" to describe the show.  You're making things up.

I'm drawing a conclusion based on what you've said and your commitment to dragging this argument out. 

 

 

8 hours ago, Excraft said:

What is "good" in this instance?  Good compared to what?  What other programs did it outperform?  How did it compare to other MCU series?  

It's exactly what I just said. It performed better than everything else on Disney+ at the time. It made the Nielsen top ten list when it debuted.

Daredevil: Born Again was released a couple months earlier and failed to chart during the entire course of its run. 

However, Daredevil will have will have a second season despite it's performance being the worst for Marvel streaming shows. 

I think that alone pretty much guts your vision of how things work. 

 

8 hours ago, Excraft said:

Or Disney knew it wasn't good and decided to hold off on releasing it in the hopes their next couple of projects started reversing the already declining interest.  Once again, if Ironheart were a success, it would've have been renewed regardless of when it was released.  That's a fact.   

 

No it's just your baseless speculation. 

Another good example is the Tron franchise. Tron Legacy was a mild financial success. The studio was disappointed that it didn't kick off a new major franchise on a par with Pirate of the Caribbean. Nonetheless, they greenlit a sequel with the same lead actors and director. Then Tomorrowland bombed and the studio changed its mind, deciding instead to focus on things like the MCU. Now, 15 years later when cape films aren't as lucrative, we are getting another Tron movie.

[Excraft]

59 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

I'm drawing a conclusion based on what you've said and your commitment to dragging this argument out. 

 

Your conclusion is wrong and you're just making things up in order to argue.  I never used the word hate to describe my opinion of the show.

 

59 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

It's exactly what I just said. It performed better than everything else on Disney+ at the time.  It made the Nielsen top ten list when it debuted.

 

Ok but what else was released on D+ at the time?  If there wasn't anything else and Ironheart was the only new content being released, it's understandable it would chart higher on D+ because it's the only new programming on at the time.  As for Nielsen, it barely charted higher than Poop Cruise....

 

59 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

Daredevil: Born Again was released a couple months earlier and failed to chart during the entire course of its run. 

However, Daredevil will have will have a second season despite it's performance being the worst for Marvel streaming shows. 

I think that alone pretty much guts your vision of how things work. 

 

Disney originally purchased 18 episodes of Daredevil: Born Again.  This was initially planned for 1 season, however it wound up getting split into two.  There was enough content and story for 2 seasons, so season 2 wasn't contingent upon season 1 performance.  I think that pretty much guts your vision of how things work.  

 

59 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

No it's just your baseless speculation. 

 

And your fantasizing that Ironheart would've been a raging success had it been released earlier isn't baseless speculation at all?  Not even a little bit?  You can't spin this - were Ironheart a hit success, there'd be a season 2 regardless of when it was released.  

Edited Tuesday at 01:42 PM by Excraft

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Excraft said:

Your conclusion is wrong and you're just making things up in order to argue.  I never used the word hate to describe my opinion of the show.

You have so little to run on that you're arguing about a specific word choice. By all means, tell me how you really feel about this steaming turd.

 

1 hour ago, Excraft said:

Ok but what else was released on D+ at the time?

 

Lol why don't you look it up if you think that matters. I'm not here to try to make your argument for you. Where Ironheart ended up in the charts is relative. The fact that it charted is not. It indicates that a substantial number of people watched.

 

1 hour ago, Excraft said:

Disney originally purchased 18 episodes of Daredevil: Born Again.  This was initially planned for 1 season, however it wound up getting split into two.  There was enough content and story for 2 seasons, so season 2 wasn't contingent upon season 1 performance.  I think that pretty much guts your vision of how things work.  

 

Disney doesn't have to air that second season. They could scrap it and rework the series. Or write it off altogether. You know, the things people here suggested the studio do with Ironheart.

You have a double standard going here that you can't seem to acknowledge. Ironheart performed well, but didn't get renewed. Daredevil performed poorly but will still have the second season. Everything related to the production and release of these shows is contingent on a variety of business decisions and other factors. 

 

1 hour ago, Excraft said:

And your fantasizing that Ironheart would've been a raging success had it been released earlier isn't baseless speculation at all?  Not even a little bit?  You can't spin this - were Ironheart a hit success, there'd be a season 2 regardless of when it was released.  

 

I BEG YOUR PARDON. Where did I say it would've been a raging success? Looks like you're making stuff up--seems a bit hypocritical. 

 

The point I made earlier was this:

"my observation is that, despite being shelved and having minimal promotion, people watched the show.

Given this data point, a more reasonable conclusion is that they should have released the series earlier, in closer proximity to the Black Panther movies, and it would've performed better."

 

When companies are making more profits, they spend more. A second season of Ironheart doesn't equate to a raging success, any more than a second season of Daredevil will. Times have changed. Superman and Fantastic Four, both well executed, well intentioned successful superhero movies have made less money respectively than Thor: Love and Thunder. 

Edited Tuesday at 03:18 PM by battlewraith

[Excraft]

15 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

You have so little to run on that you're arguing about a specific word choice. By all means, tell me how you really feel about this steaming turd.

 

I didn't care for the show and I didn't like the protagonist.  There were some good parts, but overall not enough for me to rate this series very highly.  I'd give it a 1 out of 5.  I didn't "hate" it.  

 

16 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

Disney doesn't have to air that second season. They could scrap it and rework the series. Or write it off altogether. You know, the things people here suggested the studio do with Ironheart.

You have a double standard going here that you can't seem to acknowledge. Ironheart performed well, but didn't get renewed. Daredevil performed poorly but will still have the second season. Everything related to the production and release of these shows is contingent on a variety of business decisions and other factors. 

 

There's no double standard at all.  You're trying to backpedal because you're wrong and trying to compare apples to oranges.  You tried to say that Daredevil didn't perform well, but still got a second season to claim quality doesn't matter.  Daredevil is getting a second season because that's been the plan for it since very early on before filming began.  Again, Disney already purchased 18 episodes and split that into 2 seasons.  "Season 2" was already in production.  That's not the same as Ironheart.  A better comparison is to see whether Daredevil gets a third season.  If it doesn't perform well, it probably won't.  

 

21 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

When companies are making more profits, they spend more.

 

And when a program doesn't do well, regardless of the reasoning, and advertisers start pulling their money, the shows don't get renewed.  Again, no way to spin it - Ironheart didn't do well enough to warrant a second season.  Circumstances aren't really relevant.

 

22 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

A second season of Ironheart doesn't equate to a raging success, any more than a second season of Daredevil will. Times have changed. Superman and Fantastic Four, both well executed, well intentioned successful superhero movies have made less money respectively than Thor: Love and Thunder. 

 

That's more a reflection on the quality of Fantastic Four and Superman than anything else.  The Batman came out the same year as Thor: Love and Thunder, has good reviews from both critics and audiences and has a sequel in production.  Not to mention it had a spinoff series on HBO Max.  See what happens when a studio makes a good product?

[ShardWarrior]

5 minutes ago, Excraft said:

That's more a reflection on the quality of Fantastic Four and Superman than anything else.

 

I agree.  I have not seen Fantastic Four yet, however Superman was not what I had hoped it would be.  

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Excraft said:

Circumstances aren't really relevant.

To anyone trying to understand why things happen, circumstances are always relevant.

 

Despite a lot of questioning on your part , all I've seen here is that the streaming numbers for Ironheart, despite the show being dropped with little promotion, beat everything else on Disney+ at the time. This suggests that the show outperformed expectations.

 

2 hours ago, Excraft said:

And when a program doesn't do well, regardless of the reasoning, and advertisers start pulling their money, the shows don't get renewed.

 

Ok, show me some data that shows advertisers pulling their ads because of the show's performance. Something that's not just a figment of your imagination. 

I've done a lot of searches on why Ironheart wasn't renewed. There actually has been no cancellation notice or renewal. What scant discussion I could find seems to indicate that Disney is moving away from standalone shows. If true, that would be an example of circumstance, which you think is irrelevant.

 

2 hours ago, Excraft said:

That's more a reflection on the quality of Fantastic Four and Superman than anything else. 

 

Hilarious. 

I guess Captain Marvel beating things like the first two Ironman movies and most of the Captain America movies is a reflection on the quality of those movies as well eh?

 

2 hours ago, Excraft said:

See what happens when a studio makes a good product?

 

I dunno, have you seen what happens? I thought that Batman movie was great, but the development of the sequel has been tortured. It's now been pushed off until 2027, which is not good. Particularly since this was planned to be a trilogy. Weird example to bring up.

[Excraft]

2 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

To anyone trying to understand why things happen, circumstances are always relevant.

 

The circumstances are it did not bring in enough viewers to warrant further development.  If the show were a huge success and became a watercooler show that everyone was talking about and advertisers were making a lot of money on, then it would have been renewed.

 

3 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

Despite a lot of questioning on your part , all I've seen here is that the streaming numbers for Ironheart, despite the show being dropped with little promotion, beat everything else on Disney+ at the time. This suggests that the show outperformed expectations.

 

What were the "expectations" and "expected" numbers for it to hit?  

 

5 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

Ok, show me some data that shows advertisers pulling their ads because of the show's performance.

 

Of course advertisers can and do withdraw from poorly performing shows.  Their goal is to reach as large an audience as possible with their ads, especially in whatever key demographic they're targeting.  Why do you think there are so many ads on broadcast and streaming?  Television programs have been cancelled due to advertisers pulling out because of some controversy surrounding the show as well.  

 

13 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

I guess Captain Marvel beating things like the first two Ironman movies and most of the Captain America movies is a reflection on the quality of those movies as well eh?

 

If you want to go strictly by box office, it means Captain Marvel was a good movie and people went to see it, so it was a financial success.  Ironman had 2 sequels as did Captain America, which are 2 more than Ironheart got.

 

15 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

I dunno, have you seen what happens? I thought that Batman movie was great, but the development of the sequel has been tortured. It's now been pushed off until 2027, which is not good. Particularly since this was planned to be a trilogy. Weird example to bring up.

 

Yes, I've seen what happens when a studio releases a quality product.  It sells tickets and makes a lot of money.   As far as the Batman 2, from what I've read the script isn't finished yet and Pattinson may not be available yet due to other projects.  I don't know if that's "tortured" or not.  It did get a sequel greenlit, which is more than Ironheart has and also had The Penguin spinoff.  What follow up series has Ironheart received?

[ZacKing]

Do you two think you can take your squabbling to private messages before a mod shuts the thread down again?  It would be great if this thread could be left open for people actually discuss Ironheart the series. 

 

Thank you.

[battlewraith]

27 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Do you two think you can take your squabbling to private messages before a mod shuts the thread down again?  It would be great if this thread could be left open for people actually discuss Ironheart the series. 

 

Thank you.

 

Did you ever actually watch this series?

[Excraft]

46 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Do you two think you can take your squabbling to private messages before a mod shuts the thread down again?  It would be great if this thread could be left open for people actually discuss Ironheart the series. 

 

Thank you.

 

Fair enough.  You're right.  Thanks.