Legendary 45% softcap... True/False/Sometimes/BS?

[Championess]

5 minutes ago, arcane said:

I am sure you handle radios just fine. That doesn’t mean you aren’t sacrificing offense/speed for defense because… that would be impossible.

 

Well my epic aoe blast has 4 procs in it.  I have Soul Drain so I'm bringing my very own kin.  My aoe hold is proc'd decently.  I can pack a group nice and tight with the new TK.  Then my ST attacks will finish the bosses in the midst of that.  Offense isn't gonna be a problem.

 

Don't care much for those new Council boss rez auto damage but it is what it is.

[arcane]

11 minutes ago, Championess said:

 

Well my epic aoe blast has 4 procs in it.  I have Soul Drain so I'm bringing my very own kin.  My aoe hold is proc'd decently.  I can pack a group nice and tight with the new TK.  Then my ST attacks will finish the bosses in the midst of that.  Offense isn't gonna be a problem.

 

Don't care much for those new Council boss rez auto damage but it is what it is.

I don’t think the point is getting through to you. I am not saying your offense is necessarily bad - only that it could be better.

 

This isn’t a gotcha - it’s just how the game works. Every slot you invested towards defenses could have gone towards offenses or something else entirely (mobility is also a speed consideration).

 

To believe that your offense was effectively 100% maxed out before you even started to think about mitigation and then you made it all the way to the soft cap… we would need screenshots of this unicorn.

Edited yesterday at 06:26 PM by arcane

[Championess]

Don't know how my main attacks I use frequently have a great balance of slotted damage/acc and procs.  Plus my global recharge is in the right sweet spot.

 

I think whats getting lost on you is that not every power you take do you need to cycle into use so the oppotunity to mule sets into those powers is better represented.  If you're filtering things down there's no reason why you cant make the most of everything you can.

 

 

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Championess said:

Don't know how my main attacks I use frequently have a great balance of slotted damage/acc and procs.  Plus my global recharge is in the right sweet spot.

 

I think whats getting lost on you is that not every power you take do you need to cycle into use so the oppotunity to mule sets into those powers is better represented.  If you're filtering things down there's no reason why you cant make the most of everything you can.

 

 

You are sacrificing things you just won’t show us what

[Championess]

7 minutes ago, arcane said:

You are sacrificing things you just won’t show us what

If I go to an all you can eat buffet I'm sacrificing a nice juicy filet mignon.  People value 'sacrifices' differently.

[arcane]

Refusing to engage with a point at all is one way to concede I guess.

[Championess]

4 minutes ago, arcane said:

Refusing to engage with a point at all is one way to concede I guess.

 

I offered to run my dommie through radios then we can test your dommies time so we can compare and contrast.  But sure I'll concede here so this doesnt get dragged out anymore.

[arcane]

22 minutes ago, Championess said:

 

I offered to run my dommie through radios then we can test your dommies time so we can compare and contrast.  But sure I'll concede here so this doesnt get dragged out anymore.

A screenshot would have been a relevant retort to my argument. Radios have nothing to do with it. I’m not sure if you’re being disingenuous to save face or if you just genuinely don’t understand the concept of opportunity costs. It’s weird.

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, Championess said:

For two slots extra in some controls you'd slot a purple set into anyways to at least 5 you can pick up 10% ranged defense from Ascendancy and Contagious.  Then there's global resistance uniques yes.  Also you're likely taking CJ, Stealth, Manuevers and some other defenses to let you slot your 5 Lotg's.  I mean just right there that's 25-30% ranged defense at barely any extra cost so why not.  

These are the kind of concessions we're talking about.

You're using extra enhancements slots in order to gain defense.
You're using extra power selections to gain defense.

It's very likely that those same power selections and enhancements slots could have been used elsewhere in your build to increase other stats/things like Global Accuracy, Damage, Health, etc. or repurposed to free up slots in your attacks for damage procs. The "cost" to you might be very minor, and it might not even matter on whatever content you prefer doing; but it's still a tradeoff that you've decided to make. 

The much beleaguered point here is that the best anyone can aim for when making a character in CoH is to be as efficient as possible with their build's tradeoffs - so giving up minor concessions for major gains is where good buildcrafting comes in. Whilst a mediocrely-built toon might be hitting 6/10 in a few aspects; an extremely well built toon could be hitting 9/10 in multiple aspects. However no toon will be hitting 10/10 in everything across the board all the time; the game simply doesn't allow for that - you simply don't get enough power selections or enhancement slots to pick up everything you could possibly ever want.

Dominators are also rather notoriously tight when it comes to ticking multiple other boxes with their builds... because they always (unless you're intentionally bucking the trend!) need to push hard for Global Recharge and Damage and Control Duration; which leaves far less wiggle room than usual whenever it comes to things like Recovery; Healing Procs and Passive/Active Mitigation. And it's not just down to a lack of enhancement slots - merely opting for five LoTG mule pool powers means you'll likely not go deep enough for useful stuff like Burnout or Fold Space or Rune of Protection.

Defense also comes in multiple flavours; so if a Dom is wading into melee range with Melee/PBAoE Assault Powers rather than hanging back using Procbombed Ranged Control powers then them leaning into Ranged Defense is going to be less useful. And running costly +Def toggles like Maneuvers and Weave whilst you're wailing on things with Procbombed (e.g. not EndRed slotted) attacks will cause Endurance issues unless you're constantly leaning into Ageless, even with Domination regularly topping you up.

All that said - I doubt that watching you actually play a mission will be beneficial to anyone. But posting a Mids file or an in-game Screenshot or /build_save of your Dominator might help your case here; as it'll allow us to actually be able to see what your current stats and slotting are. And it might even help your Dom out too - because even if a build is "perfectly slotted" (which is extremely unlikely; as anyone who has ever delved deeply into PPM mechanics let alone mapped out enemy stats to determine exactly how much additional damage enhancement it takes to KO a level 54 minion without overkill knows only too well) there are often minor things like Enhancement level or Boost strength changes that can maximise Damage Proc rates; trading out particular damage proc flavours based on enemy resistance; etc. etc. let alone Lore Pet Selection - if I had a penny for everyone who just took Banished Pantheon and Degenerative...
 

[Championess]

42 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

These are the kind of concessions we're talking about.

You're using extra enhancements slots in order to gain defense.
You're using extra power selections to gain defense.

It's very likely that those same power selections and enhancements slots could have been used elsewhere in your build to increase other stats/things like Global Accuracy, Damage, Health, etc. or repurposed to free up slots in your attacks for damage procs. The "cost" to you might be very minor, and it might not even matter on whatever content you prefer doing; but it's still a tradeoff that you've decided to make. 

The much beleaguered point here is that the best anyone can aim for when making a character in CoH is to be as efficient as possible with their build's tradeoffs - so giving up minor concessions for major gains is where good buildcrafting comes in. Whilst a mediocrely-built toon might be hitting 6/10 in a few aspects; an extremely well built toon could be hitting 9/10 in multiple aspects. However no toon will be hitting 10/10 in everything across the board all the time; the game simply doesn't allow for that - you simply don't get enough power selections or enhancement slots to pick up everything you could possibly ever want.

Dominators are also rather notoriously tight when it comes to ticking multiple other boxes with their builds... because they always (unless you're intentionally bucking the trend!) need to push hard for Global Recharge and Damage and Control Duration; which leaves far less wiggle room than usual whenever it comes to things like Recovery; Healing Procs and Passive/Active Mitigation. And it's not just down to a lack of enhancement slots - merely opting for five LoTG mule pool powers means you'll likely not go deep enough for useful stuff like Burnout or Fold Space or Rune of Protection.

Defense also comes in multiple flavours; so if a Dom is wading into melee range with Melee/PBAoE Assault Powers rather than hanging back using Procbombed Ranged Control powers then them leaning into Ranged Defense is going to be less useful. And running costly +Def toggles like Maneuvers and Weave whilst you're wailing on things with Procbombed (e.g. not EndRed slotted) attacks will cause Endurance issues unless you're constantly leaning into Ageless, even with Domination regularly topping you up.

All that said - I doubt that watching you actually play a mission will be beneficial to anyone. But posting a Mids file or an in-game Screenshot or /build_save of your Dominator might help your case here; as it'll allow us to actually be able to see what your current stats and slotting are. And it might even help your Dom out too - because even if a build is "perfectly slotted" (which is extremely unlikely; as anyone who has ever delved deeply into PPM mechanics let alone mapped out enemy stats to determine exactly how much additional damage enhancement it takes to KO a level 54 minion without overkill knows only too well) there are often minor things like Enhancement level or Boost strength changes that can maximise Damage Proc rates; trading out particular damage proc flavours based on enemy resistance; etc. etc. let alone Lore Pet Selection - if I had a penny for everyone who just took Banished Pantheon and Degenerative...
 

 

I digress watching someone play through game content where tough enemies punch you back is the best gauge of someones ability and build.

 

But just to show I know how to build in offense forsaking an optimal balance I've linked a topic of me punching on those poor defenseless pylons.  My dom is that Illusion/Nrg with a 42s pylon time.  So if all you want is offense I'd have a look in that topic for builds. 

 

And again thats just against 1 AV like target.  This game has a multitude of ranges to play it as.  

 

 

[arcane]

25 minutes ago, Championess said:

 

I digress watching someone play through game content where tough enemies punch you back is the best gauge of someones ability and build.

 

But just to show I know how to build in offense forsaking an optimal balance I've linked a topic of me punching on those poor defenseless pylons.  My dom is that Illusion/Nrg with a 42s pylon time.  So if all you want is offense I'd have a look in that topic for builds. 

 

And again thats just against 1 AV like target.  This game has a multitude of ranges to play it as.  

 

 

I am looking at the thread now and not seeing where you posted a build screenshot….

[Championess]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

I am looking at the thread now and not seeing where you posted a build screenshot….

 

I'm Mezmera this is my burner.  The build is attached to the Illusion/Nrg/Mace 42s pylon.  

[Maelwys]

16 minutes ago, Championess said:

I digress watching someone play through game content where tough enemies punch you back is the best gauge of someones ability and build.

 

But just to show I know how to build in offense forsaking an optimal balance I've linked a topic of me punching on those poor defenseless pylons.  My dom is that Illusion/Nrg with a 42s pylon time.  So if all you want is offense I'd have a look in that topic for builds. 

 

And again thats just against 1 AV like target.  This game has a multitude of ranges to play it as.  

Your build isn't listed in that topic either, unfortunately. Only your Pylon times.

And whilst 42s is certainly a reasonable Pylon time... the sheet says there are 7 other Illusion Dominator builds ahead of you within the same Division. You can appreciate that anyone claiming that their undocumented build is fully optimised could be met with a certain amount of scepticism; especially if there is evidence that other people with the same AT and similar (although admittedly not completely identical) powerset combinations appear to be completing the same task more efficiently.

I realise not everyone runs with Mids (although that is often an indicator of a rather unoptimised build!) however it's not difficult to type "/build_save_file C:\Temp\ThisIsMyBuild.txt" into the CoX chat window; and failing that there's always opening up the enhancement screen and hitting the Printscreen button on your keyboard a few times.

[arcane]

2 minutes ago, Championess said:

 

I'm Mezmera this is my burner.  The build is attached to the Illusion/Nrg/Mace 42s pylon.  

You said you had Dark Obliteration, Soul Drain, Stealth, etc. So you’re proving your build’s offensive capabilities by… switching builds? Christ I didn’t think Mez was this obtuse.

 

Let’s roll with it though: since defense doesn’t require sacrifices, I’m sure your pylon build with Enflame has 45% defense, right?

Edited yesterday at 09:35 PM by arcane

[Championess]

Just now, arcane said:

You said you had Dark Obliteration, Soul Drain, Stealth, etc. So you’re proving your build’s offensive capabilities by… switching builds? Christ I didn’t think Mez was this obtuse.

 

Comprehension isnt your thing.  Obviously I have lots of different doms with 3 builds each.  For gameplay where I need aoe I'll use what I'm in the mood to use.

 

You didn't catch the caveat I said it was just against 1 specific target in mind to pump out as much ST dmg you can get?

 

Offers still on the table though come see if you can outdom my main dom in +4x8 content, if you can...

[arcane]

Just now, Championess said:

 

Comprehension isnt your thing.  Obviously I have lots of different doms with 3 builds each.  For gameplay where I need aoe I'll use what I'm in the mood to use.

 

You didn't catch the caveat I said it was just against 1 specific target in mind to pump out as much ST dmg you can get?

 

Offers still on the table though come see if you can outdom my main dom in +4x8 content, if you can...

You claimed that you can make room for substantial defense bonuses without making any offensive sacrifices whatsoever and it’s obvious to everyone else here that it’s a completely bullshit claim. The fact that you think +4x8 radios are even relevant to measuring pure offensive capability makes me revisit my past assumption that Mez is an intelligent player/person. Cut the bad faith “sky is red” trash, jesus.

[Championess]

5 minutes ago, arcane said:

You claimed that you can make room for substantial defense bonuses without making any offensive sacrifices whatsoever and it’s obvious to everyone else here that it’s a completely bullshit claim. The fact that you think +4x8 radios are even relevant to measuring pure offensive capability makes me revisit my past assumption that Mez is an intelligent player/person. Cut the bad faith “sky is red” trash, jesus.

 

Look I was content leaving it where it was earlier please stop cluttering the thread.  Its put up or shut up time.

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Championess said:

Its put up or shut up time.

I completely agree. Build screenshot with both soft capped defense and optimized offenses or gtfo.

[Snarky]

Ich Hooorb das gesprachsthema.  

[Championess]

39 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

And whilst 42s is certainly a reasonable Pylon time... the sheet says there are 7 other Illusion Dominator builds ahead of you within the same Division.

 

Yes I set the bar then others enhanced their build off of the Mace epic pool.  I stopped to that Ill/Martial.  It was neat to learn envenomed blades allows for proccing onto their pets.

[Maelwys]

OK... I finally got the Build Chunk in the Sheet to import and after plugging in your stated Incarnate picks I get this:

Mezmera - Dominator (Illusion Control - Energy Assault).mbd



That's a fair Pylon basher, although even a quick glance over it shows that many of the powers are overslotted for accuracy aspect (none of them need two Acc/Dam HOs to cap your Hit chance vs +3 mobs; let alone vs an even-level Pylon!) and so a good few of the IOs (and even an entire slot in Bonesmasher!) could be shuffled around to pull a few more percentage points of Damage. The Snipe and the Tarantula pet and Spectral Terror are also missing some Damage Proc opportunities.
Also; no Fiery Orb!! (yes it's crap for most gameplay; but the DoT ticks sometimes help a smidge on a Pylon run if you can fit it into an attack you're using anyway...)


Anyways; I didn't intend to segue into a critique of what indeed looks like a perfectly acceptable Pylon whomping build.

My issue is not with your Pylon hunting build; but with these comments:
  

On 5/15/2025 at 6:44 PM, Championess said:

 

Who says I'd sacrifice offense, control or recharge?  Cover those bases then scoop up some defenses since good ones are typically one more set bonus away.

  

23 hours ago, Championess said:

Seeing first hand how well I can do offensively/control wise while maintaining tippytop defenses its hard for me not to come to the conclusion of why not having your cake and eating it too?

Because they are implying that you have a permadom that has maximum damage output and maximum control AND softcapped (or at least close to it) defenses.
And I don't believe it's possible to hit all those bullseyes simultaneously.

Efficiently balancing a Dom is a tricky endeavor.
Getting "good enough" in all categories? Sure.
Getting "rather impressive" in all categories; sure; I'll buy that too - your Pylon build shows you understand how to push at least one aspect towards maximum. 
But having ALL THE CAKE? Not needing to make any performance compromises at all? Nah.
So I suspect that best case you'll be giving up a good bit of potential damage output.

This isn't an attempt to berate you; so apologies if I'm coming across that way. I'm honestly just interested in build theory + finding out how far you've managed to push the toon in question's defence + how much you've managed to minimize the negative tradeoffs given what you're claiming here.
 

Edited yesterday at 10:21 PM by Maelwys

[Latex]

All my chars have softcap on one or two positonal DEF's, had far more mileage with Ranged DEF, even as non-hover Blasters who prefer being in the thick of it.

People saying 'wait for the Scrapper or Tank to get aggro'
I prefer to nuke a cluster of 16 mobs as a Blaster before anyone gets aggro and often times to survive the 'Alpha Strike' my DEF is the first layer of... defense.

Nothing worse in this game than being a Blaster and your nuke hitting nothing because someone killed the mobs before you. 'I hit my nuke, where big numbers... oh...' I hate it, so I build to survive and build for Rech to do it every other mob pack.

[Championess]

2 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

OK... I finally got the Build Chunk in the Sheet to import and after plugging in your stated Incarnate picks I get this:

Mezmera - Dominator (Illusion Control - Energy Assault).mbd



That's a fair Pylon basher, although even a quick glance over it shows that many of the powers are overslotted for accuracy aspect (none of them need two Acc/Dam HOs to cap your Hit chance vs +3 mobs; let alone vs an even-level Pylon!) and so a good few of the IOs (and even an entire slot in Bonesmasher!) could be shuffled around to pull a few more percentage points of Damage. The Snipe and the Tarantula pet and Spectral Terror are also missing some Damage Proc opportunities.
Also; no Fiery Orb!! (yes it's crap for most gameplay; but the DoT ticks sometimes help a smidge on a Pylon run if you can fit it into an attack you're using anyway...)


Anyways; I didn't intend to segue into a critique of what indeed looks like a perfectly acceptable Pylon whomping build.

My issue is not with your Pylon hunting build; but with these comments:
  

  

Because they are implying that you have a permadom that has maximum damage output and maximum control AND softcapped (or at least close to it) defenses.
And I don't believe it's possible to hit all those bullseyes simultaneously.

Efficiently balancing a Dom is a tricky endeavor.
Getting "good enough" in all categories? Sure.
Getting "rather impressive" in all categories; sure; I'll buy that too - your Pylon build shows you understand how to push at least one aspect towards maximum. 
But having ALL THE CAKE? Not needing to make any performance compromises at all? Nah.
So I suspect that best case you'll be giving up a good bit of potential damage output.

This isn't an attempt to berate you; so apologies if I'm coming across that way. I'm honestly just interested in build theory + finding out how far you've managed to push the toon in question's defence + how much you've managed to minimize the negative tradeoffs given what you're claiming here.
 

 

That was a quickie I threw together to show others surely doms can get sub 50s pylons.  Its a show pony build JUST for pylons as stated here and in that thread.  Less typing, more reading.

[arcane]

1 minute ago, Championess said:

 

That was a quickie I threw together to show others surely doms can get sub 50s pylons.  Its a show pony build JUST for pylons as stated here and in that thread.  Less typing, more reading.

You are free to post the screenshot of the real deal any time now.
 

Not that any of us doubt that your perfect-at-everything unicorn build exists just because you flat out refuse to provide evidence or anything like that.

 

Not like every post you make providing *everything and the kitchen sink besides evidence* further undermines your claim or anything like that.

 

I get that you know you made a completely false claim and are afraid to admit it, but this is ridiculous af.

[Championess]

Just now, arcane said:

You are free to post the screenshot of the real deal any time now.
 

Not that any of us doubt that your perfect-at-everything unicorn build exists just because you flat out refuse to provide evidence or anything like that.

 

Not like every post you make providing *everything and the kitchen sink besides evidence* further undermines your claim or anything like that.

 

I get that you know you made a completely false claim and are afraid to admit it, but this is ridiculous af.

 

Hmm I've linked you sub 50s pylon builds to show I know a little bit about building in offense on a dom.  Dont see u posted. I even offered to race your defenseless dommie in real game content but its crickets.

 

Someone lacks courage of which they speak and I'm not sure its me.  

 

You like to chatter so I'll leave you to it.  Anytime you wanna setup a playdate hit me up.