Superhuman Strength?

[Ultimo]

So, I've posted about this before, I'm posting again to see if the community can come up with some ideas for Super Strength.

 

Don't get me wrong, the set works... adequately.  The thing is, not much about it suggests the character is actually STRONG.  I'm not talking about DAMAGE (at least, not only that), I'm more concerned with presentation and effect.

 

So, the first thing to do is identify what separates super strength from NORMAL strength.  It's not the act of punching people.  ANYONE can do that.  Characters with great strength perform FEATS of strength, like holding back a train, or lifting up a car.  Things that people with normal strength can't do.  As it is, there's only one or two powers that do this.  HURL is the best one, because the character rips a chunk out of the ground and throws it at enemies.  Everything about that suggests STRENGTH.  Hand Clap is one that suggests strength too.  Foot Stomp also does suggest strength, creating a shockwave in the ground is pretty strong.

 

But that's it.  All the other powers are just punching things, and not in any way that suggests STRENGTH.

 

Strong characters HOLD things firm so they can't move, or they MOVE things that shouldn't be movable.  Things like cars, trains, vault doors and so on.

Now, holding things might not be doable given the game engine, but MOVING things is easy, via knockback.  Indeed, one of the signature effects of Super Strength IS knockback.  I'll say more about this momentarily.

 

There's also the cosmetic things.  Fighters with Super Strength tend to cause a LOT of collateral damage.  This can be achieved with debris particles (dust and rubble flying around) and decals on surfaces (cracks and whatnot).  It's notable that there's not a MARK on the ground when I use Hurl.  I rip a chunk out of the ground, and it doesn't leave any mark at all.

 

So.  What can we do to make Strength seem STRONG?

 

First, I'd rearrange the powers somewhat.  Hurl should come earlier, and it should be a small AOE.

Second, RAGE should be changed.  When active damage should be increased but knockback should ALSO be increased, and made unresistable.  Note that this would allow Super Strong characters to knock around even ARCH VILLAINS.  Giant Monsters should be immune, regardless.  I'd also like to see the damage increase reduced, and the base damage increased, to reduce the reliance of the set on this one power.

Finally, we should get some damage effects on the environment, cracks and debris on the ground and nearby walls and such.

 

What say you all?  What are your thoughts?  How would you tweak Super Strength to better resemble STRENGTH?

[Biff Pow]

Super Strength gets talked about a lot but since it's such a popular set I don't think any big changes will ever be made. Even changes that seem really positive still get lots of pushback. So my suggestions are fairly minor:

 

Jab and Punch need to do more damage than Boxing and Kick. Super Strength attacks should not be weaker than power pool attacks. I'd maybe change Jab to a one-two punch like Barrage.

 

Make Hurl's knockback AoE like Propel (from Gravity Control.) I agree about leaving a mark on the ground, this is something I like about the Mighty Judgement power.

 

This one will probably be unpopular but: remove Rage's damage and defense crash and increase the Endurance crash. The forced ten second timeout feels kludgy, but if you have to stop attacking to prepare for the crash it feels more like active endurance management.

[Ultimo]

On 5/16/2025 at 1:49 AM, Biff Pow said:

Super Strength gets talked about a lot but since it's such a popular set I don't think any big changes will ever be made. Even changes that seem really positive still get lots of pushback. So my suggestions are fairly minor:

 

Jab and Punch need to do more damage than Boxing and Kick. Super Strength attacks should not be weaker than power pool attacks. I'd maybe change Jab to a one-two punch like Barrage.

 

Make Hurl's knockback AoE like Propel (from Gravity Control.) I agree about leaving a mark on the ground, this is something I like about the Mighty Judgement power.

 

This one will probably be unpopular but: remove Rage's damage and defense crash and increase the Endurance crash. The forced ten second timeout feels kludgy, but if you have to stop attacking to prepare for the crash it feels more like active endurance management.

In terms of performance, Super Strength seems... ok.  It's a bit reliant on Rage and KO Blow, but it's ok.  Middle of the pack, I think.  It would (should) be a bit better, but the performance is a secondary concern, for me.  Even if they added the cosmetic stuff (cracks, debris, etc.) and rearranged the powers a little so that Hurl, at least, comes substantially earlier, that might be enough.

 

I think I'd change Rage into to toggle, and rename it to "Gloves Off," or something like that, the idea being that the character stops holding back.  This would increase damage, endurance costs, and make knockback unresistable.

[MonteCarla]

I remember when I first played Champions Online, superstrength there felt an order of magnitude better than in CoH.

 

1) You could pick up objects like cars and throw them.
2) You did hefty knockback with many attacks, say a charged Roomsweeper, and it was OK to do so.

 

We can't do 1) in CoH because the engine doesn't support it, so impact decals and effects are probably the best we can do there.

 

2) is iffy, because knockback is unpopular in CoH. This is because the gameplay meta here revolves around herding up tens of enemies and using AoEs on them, so any scatter is bad. Champions saw you generally fighting smaller groups, and also had lunge attacks in most melee sets to make closing the distance less of an issue.

 

I think SS just needs the first three attacks (Jab, Punch, Haymaker) getting a bit of love. Instead of 2,4 and 8s recharges, make them 4, 8 and 10s and give them better animations and SFX. Less stubby little jabs and more gorilla swipe. Haymaker should do actual Knockback similar to Martial Art's Crane Kick. That would go a long way to making the set feel more super-strong.

[VPrime]

I always stick a Knockback IO in Haymaker to help make it feel more powerful.

 

Having Rage increase Knockback chance and magnitude would be good.

 

The set needs more screen shake like Stone Melee gets. That would also help make it feel more powerful.

Edited yesterday at 03:20 AM by VPrime

[Ultimo]

Knockback is an issue too, which I've mentioned in the past.  My thinking is, if it's undesirable, do something to MAKE it desirable.  My thinking is to make knockback do damage, relative to the AMOUNT of knockback done (ie. if you're knocked flying through the air, it should HURT to land, or hit a wall, or what have you).  Throw some damage decals where you land, a bit of debris, and stuff like that, for appearances' sake.

 

That way, knockback enhancers might become more popular too.

[Uncle Shags]

It would cool if kb caused collision damage and kd with targets in the flight path.