WindDemon21 Posted Thursday at 09:42 PM Posted Thursday at 09:42 PM (edited) So this should go without saying, but since the power is split between half stun and half fear, which honestly just make it all stun at this point since it's incredibly annoying to use as is, but if its going to stay split then it should have a shorter recharge. Aoe fears have a 40s rech, aoe stuns have 90, so it would make sense for it to be 60 second recharge. Or split for it to hit full mob with both the stun and the fear, but lower duration on both so the stun still helps immediately and then the fear lasts longer (similarly suggested this for the aoe stun in arse and dominator illusion to be both stun AND immobilize but slightly lower duration on them). It also doesn't seem to differentiate between only casting the fear or stun on an enemy, so casts both on some, and then some in the mob get absolutely zero control of the 16 targets. This power is an absolute mess and unreliable as all gettup, especially for dominators who rely on that big mob control it really hurts them too. Though in all honestly, if the fear was just an ADDED bonus, sure, but the power should really just be an aoe stun. Even for those who might say to proc it out, for one, who knows what the future holds for that still, but in testing even, even with the ATO damage proc for controllers the damage seems to only be working on the stun portion of it anyway so you're even then still only getting half of the procs versus if it was just a regular aoe stun at least for that proc, and so far in testing with positrons blast proc, it works on both, but won't seem to trigger twice on an enemy getting hit with both the stun and the fear, so it's still not any extra proccing, it's only less. Please fix this power asap Edited Friday at 07:26 PM by WindDemon21 1
Championess Posted Thursday at 10:54 PM Posted Thursday at 10:54 PM I slotted mine with 2 dommie ATO's for control/acc so it enhances both controls and I excluded the ones with recharge so it doesn't go mucking up the 4 procs I have in it. We are having different experiences. Besides some clunkyness with having to have a target and placing this target location power I'm finding it does a great job of adding lots of extra aoe damage. Having gotten used to Pyro it is outclearing mobs faster than my Mind dom. Barrage is a real nice power I like how it came out. 1
WindDemon21 Posted Thursday at 10:56 PM Author Posted Thursday at 10:56 PM 1 minute ago, Championess said: I slotted mine with 2 dommie ATO's for control/acc so it enhances both controls and I excluded the ones with recharge so it doesn't go mucking up the 4 procs I have in it. We are having different experiences. Besides some clunkyness with having to have a target and placing this target location power I'm finding it does a great job of adding lots of extra aoe damage. Having gotten used to Pyro it is outclearing mobs faster than my Mind dom. Barrage is a real nice power I like how it came out. Your slotting would still provide the same amount of damage if it was just an aoe stun too though. It's gaining absolutely nothing by splitting it between half fear and half stun. All that does is make it's stun control less effective, Hence why i suggested make the stun hit all 16 targets, and as with the fear, but make it like, 75% duration of a normal stun, and same with the fear. Or just make it a normal aoe stun, it's awful how it currently is.
Championess Posted Thursday at 10:57 PM Posted Thursday at 10:57 PM Just now, WindDemon21 said: Your slotting would still provide the same amount of damage if it was just an aoe stun too though. It's gaining absolutely nothing by splitting it between half fear and half stun. All that does is make it's stun control less effective, Hence why i suggested make the stun hit all 16 targets, and as with the fear, but make it like, 75% duration of a normal stun, and same with the fear. Or just make it a normal aoe stun, it's awful how it currently is. Fear sets get a damage proc u can slot in it. Stun sets do not.
WindDemon21 Posted Thursday at 11:07 PM Author Posted Thursday at 11:07 PM 2 minutes ago, Championess said: Fear sets get a damage proc u can slot in it. Stun sets do not. Right, so for half the targets it may hit the proc, but since the max targets hit between both the stun and the fear is still only 16 targets, that's only going to end up with a very minimal increase in proc damage. Even if the code was put in weird where the damage proc from the fear set hit the 8 targets of the stun too, that's still adding not a ton more damage, for the whole power being gutted as far as actually being reliable for what it should be doing, especially on dominators. It's just nowhere near worth it for an extra half a proc. Which again, just make it hit both the stun and fear for 16 targets, but smaller durations on both, or just make it a full aoe stun and ignore the fear part (or have the fear as an added bonus, without factoring into the balance of the power). But currently, the power is just awful compared to a regular aoe stun and needs fixed. And even remaining currently how it is, the power should still have a 60s recharge (which yes hurts procs some, but should still be that recharge based on what the power does). But again, just make it a regular aoe stun, ignore the fear, or make both hit all 16 targets with a slightly shorter duration.
Championess Posted Thursday at 11:20 PM Posted Thursday at 11:20 PM Reducing recharge also kneecaps the proc rate. You're wanting to wholesale remove one proc and the 3 others you can slot in it still will have their proc rates more than halved. The powerset already has the necessary control you'll want with the cone confuse/sleep and the aoe hold with adaptive recharge. Maybe you should look at it as a power to let you do damage that by the way also does some control. 1
WindDemon21 Posted Friday at 12:19 AM Author Posted Friday at 12:19 AM 46 minutes ago, Championess said: Reducing recharge also kneecaps the proc rate. You're wanting to wholesale remove one proc and the 3 others you can slot in it still will have their proc rates more than halved. The powerset already has the necessary control you'll want with the cone confuse/sleep and the aoe hold with adaptive recharge. Maybe you should look at it as a power to let you do damage that by the way also does some control. Actually especially for dominator it doesn't. Losing that every mob stun is a big hurt. The adaptive rech on the holds means nothing when hitting a full mob since they didn't lower the max recharge to 120s. 4 minutes is still too long to be up every mob. And while the deep sleep is a nice addition, it still gets broken and the confuse Is so minor in only a 20ft radius of the cone and only hitting 5 targets its hard to consider it for THAT much. Again, as a full stun the amount of proc damage loss would be almost negligible, but the loss of the guaranteed control is FAR more of an issue, especially for dominator. As to the recharge, yes it would hurt procs some, but that doesn't mean that the power shouldn't be balanced for itself first. If half is going to be fear, it should have a shorter recharge than a full aoe stun. Again, if fear is going to be a bonus, make both the fear and stun hit the full mob, but lower the duration of the stun so it still does its initial job of making it so they can't attack you, and then the fear lasts longer if that is needed. At the lowest rate, the fear wouldn't come into play anyway, at best it'll still help it control in the longer run while still allowing the stun to do its initial alpha purpose. You're GRAVELY overestimating the amount that one more basic damage proc is doing versus the power actually working properly for its initial reason for being. The best option for everyone seems to be having both fear and stun hit for the full 16 targets (can be in the same taoe too just get rid if the annoying location half of it) and make the stun last 10 seconds instead of 15, and then have the fear last the longer duration after it wears off. Same probability, better use. It's basically the same issue that Seeds had at 10 targets, and the same reason why they need to make it 16 targets as I just suggested.
skoryy Posted Friday at 11:29 AM Posted Friday at 11:29 AM 13 hours ago, WindDemon21 said: So this should go without saying, but since the power is split between half stun and half fear, which honestly just make it all stun at this point since it's incredibly annoying to use as is, but if its going to stay split then it should have a shorter recharge. Aoe fears have a 40s rech, aoe stuns have 90, so it would make sense for it to be 60 second recharge. Or split for it to hit full mob with both the stun and the fear, but lower duration on both so the stun still helps immediately and then the fear lasts longer (similarly suggested this for the aoe stun in arse and dominator illusion to be both stun AND immobilize but slightly lower duration on them). It also doesn't seem to differentiate between only casting the fear or stun on an enemy, so casts both on some, and then some in the mob get absolutely zero control of the 16 targets. This power is an absolute mess and unreliable as all gettup, especially for dominators who rely on that big mob control it really hurts them too. Though in all honestly, if the fear was just an ADDED bonus, sure, but the power should really just be an aoe stun. Even for those who might say to proc it out, for one, who knows what the future holds for that still, but in testing even, even with the ATO damage proc for controllers the damage seems to only be working on the stun portion of it anyway so you're even then still only getting half of the procs versus if it was just a regular aoe stun at least for that proc, and so far in testing with positrons blast proc, it works on both, but won't seem to trigger twice on an enemy getting hit with both the stun and the fear, so it's still not any extra proccing, it's only less. Please fix this power asap Brilliant Barrage is fine. Learn how to use Hypnotizing Lights and Explosive Bouquet for your hard controls. 1 1 Everlasting's Actionette, Guardian Echo Five, Sunflare, and Officer Foxfire! Also Starwave, Nightlight, and many more!
tidge Posted Friday at 11:35 AM Posted Friday at 11:35 AM My initial testing with Brilliant Barrage left me unimpressed with it as a source of %proc damage. My initial thinking is that the poor performance was somewhat related to the reasons you don't get %proc damage in a power like Seeker Drones... that delayed effects and the lack of a pseudopet 'body' left behind work against "on cast' %damage (like you can reliably get in the cast of something like Caltrops, whereas teh 'tick' chances aren't good at all) I'm still leveling up my Pyro Controller, and I'm soon to have some extra slots again to try testing Brilliant Barrage with %damage... but for now it is looking like I will lean into it to hold a control set (probably stun, possibly ATO) rather than trying to leverage it as a source of damage.
WindDemon21 Posted Friday at 12:09 PM Author Posted Friday at 12:09 PM 25 minutes ago, tidge said: My initial testing with Brilliant Barrage left me unimpressed with it as a source of %proc damage. My initial thinking is that the poor performance was somewhat related to the reasons you don't get %proc damage in a power like Seeker Drones... that delayed effects and the lack of a pseudopet 'body' left behind work against "on cast' %damage (like you can reliably get in the cast of something like Caltrops, whereas teh 'tick' chances aren't good at all) I'm still leveling up my Pyro Controller, and I'm soon to have some extra slots again to try testing Brilliant Barrage with %damage... but for now it is looking like I will lean into it to hold a control set (probably stun, possibly ATO) rather than trying to leverage it as a source of damage. That's exactly the issue. Since the stun only his 8 targets but still only 8 for the fear too is it's an extremely unreliable control, and proving out a power has been explained that it should never be the sole intent/reason for a power's use. 33 minutes ago, skoryy said: Brilliant Barrage is fine. Learn how to use Hypnotizing Lights and Explosive Bouquet for your hard controls. It's not actually for the reasons I've gone into detail explaining. The deep sleep still will break out, and the recharge on explosive isn't up enough to use every mob either. Adaptive recharge is interesting to help hold a single foe or when you don't need it in the first place, but without lowering the max recharge when it hits a full mob (its main use) it literally does nothing to help it be up more often and is just a cop out ploy to actually fixing the aoe holds which should have just been made 120s from the get go (or 120 max with adaptive recharge) There is zero reason or (enough) benefit to having this power split between fear and stun. Just make it a full stun already (or dual 16 target mix as I described above) 1 1
tidge Posted Friday at 12:20 PM Posted Friday at 12:20 PM As noted, I have more testing to do... but if a power has multiple controls types, for me that usually makes it a good candidate for (Control) ATOs and/or Hami-Os, since the 'control' boosts in those enhancement sets boost each type of control. I don't have strong opinions about AoE holds because the Live devs beat them out of me.
WindDemon21 Posted Friday at 12:26 PM Author Posted Friday at 12:26 PM 5 minutes ago, tidge said: As noted, I have more testing to do... but if a power has multiple controls types, for me that usually makes it a good candidate for (Control) ATOs and/or Hami-Os, since the 'control' boosts in those enhancement sets boost each type of control. I don't have strong opinions about AoE holds because the Live devs beat them out of me. Generally that should be a BENEFIT, but only when the extra control is in fact EXTRA. But since the control is instead split, it just makes it weaker and less reliable. It's bad.
WindDemon21 Posted yesterday at 07:16 PM Author Posted yesterday at 07:16 PM It honestly gets worse and worse the higher up you get too, since the deep sleep still breaks after a few seconds with any hits, you get a couple seconds of that, a couple off the column, but without having an every mob full control it really hurts
laudwic Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago I've got a 50 pyro/marine controller with around 15 vet levels, while Brilliant Barrage is not my go to AoE control power, I am very happy with how it works. It is my, oh crap, a ton of stuff is coming that I need to stop, emergency control power. Is it harder to use, sure. Does it have a great amount of utility being able to select two different locations for AoEs? Heck yeah! That is why I love it. Others have posted Macros to have both aspects of the power hit the same target. This is a very different power, and one of the things that makes the set different. Keep it as it is. 1
WindDemon21 Posted 5 hours ago Author Posted 5 hours ago 1 minute ago, laudwic said: I've got a 50 pyro/marine controller with around 15 vet levels, while Brilliant Barrage is not my go to AoE control power, I am very happy with how it works. It is my, oh crap, a ton of stuff is coming that I need to stop, emergency control power. Is it harder to use, sure. Does it have a great amount of utility being able to select two different locations for AoEs? Heck yeah! That is why I love it. Others have posted Macros to have both aspects of the power hit the same target. This is a very different power, and one of the things that makes the set different. Keep it as it is. You're missing the point. While still annoying sure, I'm not even saying to change HOW it works. The issue is the target cap having the amount of targets split between stun and fear making it insanely unreliable. You can keep it how it works but make the target cap for at least the stun hit the full 16 targets still. No macro can change how it chooses what enemies are affected by what (macro can only be to set location at the target or self) so it's impossible to designate which gets which effect. The power is atrociously bad because of the split nature being only valued as a half stun, while the other half, or rather less than half that isn't applying on the same enemies anyway wasting it, being a fear means they're still attacking which is especially bad on doms. Again this all goes to part of the original statement too? That if it remains unchanged, it's recharge should absolutely be at 60s not 90 since its half fear only. You can NOT say "but that hurts procs" without directly saying that it HAS to be a proc bomb only power, without saying that it shouldn't be balanced FOR THE POWER ITSELF for stats first. Which in either rate, still makes the power terrible. The only way this power works properly is to have at least the stun still hit 16 targets, with the fear being the extra bonus. (Which still helps procs out too anyway) You being happy with it as is with its current stats, shows nothing except that you're not fully understanding the power and balance. Again, the issue isn't that it has two areas of field that youre saying you like, the issue is the target cap for the stun and its reliability and fact that it's currently halved, and if it's halved(which is still god awful), it's recharge should not be 90s like other FULL aoe stuns, but then it should be at 60s since half of it is only a fear.
laudwic Posted 4 hours ago Posted 4 hours ago 57 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said: You're missing the point. While still annoying sure, I'm not even saying to change HOW it works. The issue is the target cap having the amount of targets split between stun and fear making it insanely unreliable. You can keep it how it works but make the target cap for at least the stun hit the full 16 targets still. No macro can change how it chooses what enemies are affected by what (macro can only be to set location at the target or self) so it's impossible to designate which gets which effect. The power is atrociously bad because of the split nature being only valued as a half stun, while the other half, or rather less than half that isn't applying on the same enemies anyway wasting it, being a fear means they're still attacking which is especially bad on doms. Again this all goes to part of the original statement too? That if it remains unchanged, it's recharge should absolutely be at 60s not 90 since its half fear only. You can NOT say "but that hurts procs" without directly saying that it HAS to be a proc bomb only power, without saying that it shouldn't be balanced FOR THE POWER ITSELF for stats first. Which in either rate, still makes the power terrible. The only way this power works properly is to have at least the stun still hit 16 targets, with the fear being the extra bonus. (Which still helps procs out too anyway) You being happy with it as is with its current stats, shows nothing except that you're not fully understanding the power and balance. Again, the issue isn't that it has two areas of field that youre saying you like, the issue is the target cap for the stun and its reliability and fact that it's currently halved, and if it's halved(which is still god awful), it's recharge should not be 90s like other FULL aoe stuns, but then it should be at 60s since half of it is only a fear. I've used the power, generally, solo to generate a 50 plus over 15 vet levels. I use it differently than you do. If both effects went to the same group, I would respec out of this power. They only go to the same group if you want them to. I target different groups with different effects. I play at +1/4 as I solo and this is my relaxation. If I agro an entire room rather than just one spawn (happens pretty often as I do a lot of repeatable missions in the KW and my alpha gives a range bonus which causes me to grab more spawns than one) or an ambush attacks my character while I'm otherwise engaged, when that happens, then Brilliant Barrage shines for me. I can target to groups that are separated by a decent distance and drop a stun on one and a fear on the other one. I don't drop it in the same area and I don't care which is which. The power is a secondary, emergency, control for me, so I am not worried about the recharge time, and it works very well. There is nothing else like it in the controller sets. I have one proc in it, but I didn't proc load it like I have with other powers. (Shoal Rush & Whitecap - looking at you). I don't care if one group is feared (and will attack back if I attack them) because I just need to stop then for now while I concentrate on the other groups. When I finally turn my attention to them, I can just drop another AoE on them and finish them off. Just because I use a power differently than you, that doesn't me I don't know how to use it or how to effectively use it. The stun is mag 3 the fear is mag 4, each one has the possibility of +1 mag for a controller. Then again, the AoE control power that I use is Hypnotizing Lights so you'll probably think I'm crazy anyways. Generally: Tidal Pool, Glittering Column, Shoal Rush (highly proced), Hypnotizing Lights, Fireball (Containment Bonus), Whitecap (highly proced) Dazzle, Sparking Cage, and Arcane blast what ever is left. What is left has - to hit from Column and Incendiary Aura. Works really really well. I'm having a lot of fun street sweeping Elite Bosses in KW. Incendiary Aura running, Catherine Wheel has Shifting Tides on it, barrier Reef for free absorb points. Skipped Sparkling Chain Explosive Bouquet - barely slotted but to stack holds with Dazzle Brilliant Barrage for emergencies Glittering Column as a starter, or use later to take aggro off for fun. 1
WindDemon21 Posted 4 hours ago Author Posted 4 hours ago 5 minutes ago, laudwic said: I've used the power, generally, solo to generate a 50 plus over 15 vet levels. I use it differently than you do. If both effects went to the same group, I would respec out of this power. They only go to the same group if you want them to. I target different groups with different effects. I play at +1/4 as I solo and this is my relaxation. If I agro an entire room rather than just one spawn (happens pretty often as I do a lot of repeatable missions in the KW and my alpha gives a range bonus which causes me to grab more spawns than one) or an ambush attacks my character while I'm otherwise engaged, when that happens, then Brilliant Barrage shines for me. I can target to groups that are separated by a decent distance and drop a stun on one and a fear on the other one. I don't drop it in the same area and I don't care which is which. The power is a secondary, emergency, control for me, so I am not worried about the recharge time, and it works very well. There is nothing else like it in the controller sets. I have one proc in it, but I didn't proc load it like I have with other powers. (Shoal Rush & Whitecap - looking at you). I don't care if one group is feared (and will attack back if I attack them) because I just need to stop then for now while I concentrate on the other groups. When I finally turn my attention to them, I can just drop another AoE on them and finish them off. Just because I use a power differently than you, that doesn't me I don't know how to use it or how to effectively use it. The stun is mag 3 the fear is mag 4, each one has the possibility of +1 mag for a controller. Then again, the AoE control power that I use is Hypnotizing Lights so you'll probably think I'm crazy anyways. Generally: Tidal Pool, Glittering Column, Shoal Rush (highly proced), Hypnotizing Lights, Fireball (Containment Bonus), Whitecap (highly proced) Dazzle, Sparking Cage, and Arcane blast what ever is left. What is left has - to hit from Column and Incendiary Aura. Works really really well. I'm having a lot of fun street sweeping Elite Bosses in KW. Incendiary Aura running, Catherine Wheel has Shifting Tides on it, barrier Reef for free absorb points. Skipped Sparkling Chain Explosive Bouquet - barely slotted but to stack holds with Dazzle Brilliant Barrage for emergencies Glittering Column as a starter, or use later to take aggro off for fun. This whole thing is invalidated though because you're strictly ignoring the target cap issue at 1/4. Balance wise, the power is still a major fail not doing what it's supposed to do unless they either lower the recharge, or more aptly, increase the target cap for the stun to 16 targets. What you are basically saying, is you're not fighting enough enemies to begin with for it to matter, but that doesn't change thst the power is still ill-performing what it's supposed to do in normal large sized mobs which is the whole issue.
laudwic Posted 3 hours ago Posted 3 hours ago 25 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said: This whole thing is invalidated though because you're strictly ignoring the target cap issue at 1/4. Balance wise, the power is still a major fail not doing what it's supposed to do unless they either lower the recharge, or more aptly, increase the target cap for the stun to 16 targets. What you are basically saying, is you're not fighting enough enemies to begin with for it to matter, but that doesn't change thst the power is still ill-performing what it's supposed to do in normal large sized mobs which is the whole issue. In your opinion. The power is performing wonderfully for me for the purpose I'm using it for. Ie: when I am fighting 3+ spawns in a 1/4 set up or when I have an ambush. I'm fighting spawns for 4x my party size and I'm using the power to deal with overpulls and ambushes so only when I am dealing with multiple spawns that one is designed for 4x my actual party size. When I play, I fight the entire spawn at once, I don't pull from a spawn. I am very aware that each segment of Brilliant Barrage is only going to target 8. It is part of what I enjoy of the tactics of which power to use and when. Pyrotechnic has 5 AoE control powers (I include Glittering Column and sparkling chain - the only one I skipped) One chain, one cone, one placeable AoE taunt, one placeable AoE hold, and targeted AoE Stun with a placeable AoE fear. Every single one of these powers has a 16 target cap. The crust of your argument seems to be that the two different portions of Brilliant Barrage each have a target cap of 8 and that is somehow wrong. Together, the two effects have a target cap of 16, just like every other power in the set. The utility is you can split up the two segments or drop it in one section. Utility comes at a cost, and part of the cost is the recharge time. Your welcome to dislike or want a change to a power. Because it doesn't work for you, or work how you would like it, doesn't mean that it is not working for others or that they are using it wrong.
WindDemon21 Posted 2 hours ago Author Posted 2 hours ago (edited) 48 minutes ago, laudwic said: Pyrotechnic has 5 AoE control powers (I include Glittering Column and sparkling chain - the only one I skipped) One chain, one cone, one placeable AoE taunt, one placeable AoE hold, and targeted AoE Stun with a placeable AoE fear. Every single one of these powers has a 16 target cap. The crust of your argument seems to be that the two different portions of Brilliant Barrage each have a target cap of 8 and that is somehow wrong. Together, the two effects have a target cap of 16, just like every other power in the set. The utility is you can split up the two segments or drop it in one section. Utility comes at a cost, and part of the cost is the recharge time. Except this is wholly wrong in actual practice. Glittering, the taunt/ku only lasts a few seconds and doesn't stop attacking besides the short ku and some -to hit (dont get me wrong i love the power but it's far from a full control), meaning vulnerabilities to aoe attacks or If your teammate has their own taunt aura that will supercede it they'll still be attacked. The cone sleep only lasts a few seconds of deep sleep before they wake up (edit and it's confuse you can't use if you want to hit the whole mob with the sleep really due to the cone size/shape so that is a nice addition but only really matters when the mob is down to just a few enemies). The aoe hold (that fyi is target based not location based) isn't up often enough and THAT should be the power you're reserving for those "oh sh!t" moments, aoe immobilize is standard and useful but doesn't prevent retaliation and takes longer to work because of the chain nature versus a regular taoe. And then there's brilliant barrage. You can NEVER guarantee that it will control a whole mob, since you can't control what gets the stun and what gets the fear, which still doesn't change that it's stats are off in it's current form where it's recharge should be 60s being half fear, but anyway, at BEST you can do is target one side of the mob, and *try* to place the fear portion on the other side, and just HOPE that rng lucks out so that every one of the 16 targets gets either stunned or feared with no overlap, but in reality that's still impossible (and would still mean a 60s rech). And at every single instance, it still goes far into how wholly unreliable the power is even at that. Again, I'm not saying to take away it's usefulness of having the dual stun and fear in two areas, the issue again, is as it currently is, it's recharge should be 60 seconds since half of it is fear. But even more appropriately, the stun should still be 16 targets, even if the duration was only 2/3 it's current duration and then the fear should really be 16 targets as well, turning it into a "stun full mob now but shorter duration, that turns into a longer lasting fear," or "stun one mob and fear another, but focus first on the stunned mob because the stun won't last as long" but as it currently is, no, the power needs fixed without question in some fashion, even if at thr very least it's just making the recharge 60s which would be proper given its only a half stun, where only full stuns should have the 90s recharge. Fears have 40s recharges. And again, procs don't factor in to a powers base use and stats so that argument is also moot. Edited 2 hours ago by WindDemon21
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