Dark x3 question

[graeberguinn]

Started a D3 defender and so far I'm really liking it. Lots of tools and lots to do. Level 30 currently. My question is:

 

What would be your choice between D3 defender or controller? What would you say are the good, bad and in between of both? Not sure if I want to stay Defender on this. Maybe I'll end up with both just for shots but just need some outside opinions and advice to help wrangle in my thoughts. So:

 

My thoughts are Defender obviously has a complete blast set along with all the -to hit and soft control. Has enough aoe with cones and can proc a couple powers plus ancillary pools AOEs. Good ST. So far it seems to be great in teams. Slower solo than other ATs / powers bit can be tanky and pretty solid so far. 

But, the controller obviously has way more control, more pets, confuse, and arguably a better dark support set with affinity offering fade and soul absorption. Downside with controller is only having 2 ST from primary with immob + hold unless you go into pools or ancillary. Plus actual AOE powers are less. So will that slow down kill speed? Seems better suited for teams.

 

Thanks in advance

[BurnTheWitch]

I've got a 50 dark/dark/ soul of both, the 'troller (Witchcraft) is my "main" but I play the 'fender (Witchipedia) quite a bit as well.  We're comparing Gala to Granny Smith, but they're apples. Both are set up rather similarly but have very different incarnate slottings.

 

As you've pointed out, the 'fender has a much better blast rotation (although I need to get someone with better mathhammering to see if I can upgrade the rotation) and the 'troller had better. . Intangibles.  Now I know that sounds like a dig, but it isn't at all.  The 'troller can tank better and get a group out of a jam with heart of darkness if fearsome stare misses.  When a group is struggling, I'd rather have the 'troller.  I also -feel- (doesn't make it true) that playing the 'troller is a little more "chill" when I'm soloing.  The svartvarg is an okay enough tank that I can relax behind him and all of my get out of jail free cards.

 

That being said, when a group is good, the 'fender is more desireable.  The AOE damage difference is quite noticable and the need for tons of control doesn't seem to be there in much of the Itrial content.  I can't think of a time I used heart of darkness as a get out of jail free card in BAF for example.  I'm also not certain how much value I get out of possess either.  That's about half of my 'troller exclusive abilities that I don't use much in Itrials.

 

In the end, they are both fun to play.  One might appeal more to some than others (I certainly log into one based on how I'm feeling at times), but I'll be the last to tell you which is better.

 

[Psyonico]

On live, I loved my D3 defender, but I much prefer my dark/dark controller in HC.  Permanent Haunt/Fade/Soul Absorption is a thing of beauty and he actually does decent AoE damage between the immob and Dark Obliteration.

 

I may just not have a good build on the defender, I don't know.

[Icono04]

On 8/12/2025 at 3:10 AM, BurnTheWitch said:

When a group is struggling, I'd rather have the 'troller.  [...] That being said, when a group is good, the 'fender is more desireable. 

That seems to be the general consensus regarding defenders vs. controllers AFAIK : Defender is more useful and/or enjoyable on a fast-moving team, whereas controller is more useful on a slow or struggling team. That is also my own experience with various controllers and defenders, albeit not with Dark on any of them.

[Jocantaro]

On 8/7/2025 at 6:32 AM, graeberguinn said:

Started a D3 defender and so far I'm really liking it. Lots of tools and lots to do. Level 30 currently. My question is:

 

What would be your choice between D3 defender or controller? What would you say are the good, bad and in between of both? Not sure if I want to stay Defender on this. Maybe I'll end up with both just for shots but just need some outside opinions and advice to help wrangle in my thoughts. So:

 

My thoughts are Defender obviously has a complete blast set along with all the -to hit and soft control. Has enough aoe with cones and can proc a couple powers plus ancillary pools AOEs. Good ST. So far it seems to be great in teams. Slower solo than other ATs / powers bit can be tanky and pretty solid so far. 

But, the controller obviously has way more control, more pets, confuse, and arguably a better dark support set with affinity offering fade and soul absorption. Downside with controller is only having 2 ST from primary with immob + hold unless you go into pools or ancillary. Plus actual AOE powers are less. So will that slow down kill speed? Seems better suited for teams.

 

Thanks in advance

Imho, Controllers are fun to lvl up but at the fast pace incarnate teams go, I find that CC is not really that useful after lvl 50. On this particular matter, I'd go for D3 Defender (D4 if you wish) hands down since the controller / dominator version has "Fade" which is great power but it's a clicky and I don't really like depending on defensice "clickie" powers.

 

Just my 2 inf

[Warshades]

On 8/7/2025 at 12:32 AM, graeberguinn said:

What would be your choice between D3 defender or controller? What would you say are the good, bad and in between of both? Not sure if I want to stay Defender on this. Maybe I'll end up with both just for shots but just need some outside opinions and advice to help wrangle in my thoughts. So:

 

My thoughts are Defender obviously has a complete blast set along with all the -to hit and soft control. Has enough aoe with cones and can proc a couple powers plus ancillary pools AOEs. Good ST. So far it seems to be great in teams. Slower solo than other ATs / powers bit can be tanky and pretty solid so far. 

But, the controller obviously has way more control, more pets, confuse, and arguably a better dark support set with affinity offering fade and soul absorption. Downside with controller is only having 2 ST from primary with immob + hold unless you go into pools or ancillary. Plus actual AOE powers are less. So will that slow down kill speed? Seems better suited for teams.

 

I've not played a D3 defender or controller, however I do have an illusion/dark controller that I love to play. I personally enjoy playing my ill/dark controller solo and like the challenge of taking on and soloing AVs and GMs with him. On teams he's a lot less fun to play, but that's also due to how poorly designed illusion is to deal with large mobs. Darkness control certainly has more AoEs and more places to proc some of them out to get some damage. 

 

I would personally say that if you want to challenge and solo AVs/GMs, take the controller. If you plan to team a lot, take the defender. You can honestly build both and switch depending on if you want to team or solo. 

 

I'll also add that darkness affinity is honestly one of the tankiest controller secondaries available. With a combination of Fade + Shadow Fall and some set bonuses and pool/patron/epic powers, you can soft cap positional defenses while also getting some solid resists across the board. Soul Absorption is excellent on large mobs and provides a lot of regen/recovery as well which will benefit any nearby teammates also when it's used. Howling Twilight is a great rez power, but it's also a fantastic -500% regen for 30 seconds power with ~45 second recharge on a high recharge build, I usually 5 slot it with Absolute Amazement set and spam it whenever it's up against AVs/GMs. 

[Lhanis]

I have and regularly play both and, in fact, they're 2 of the only 4 character's that have stayed in my regular 'roster' and never been retired since I started on HC. Dark Miasma has always been my favorite powerset, even as far back as the good ol' days of Live. That said, I do absolutely have a favorite here... and it isn't the Defender.

 

For all of my love for Dark Miasma, Dark Blast is a janky and uncomfortable set to play with most of the time (at least in my opinion). It procs wonderfully (which is important because the actual damage output is anemic at best) and it has more AoE than most blasts can get... but that AoE is the problem; You are saddled with 3 very narrow cones with differing arcs and ranges to work with. It almost requires Hover to get good use of them, and generally means you want to be as far back as Tenebrous will allow you to be and still hit the group - which conflicts with your desire to be close when dropping Blackstar or using Twilight Grasp. You eventually learn to deal with it, but that doesn't mean it isn't exhausting to constantly be managing your range and targeting on top of everything else going on in a speedy group.

 

On the other hand, we have Dark Affinity, which is just better Dark Miasma - especially on a D3, where you aren't actually losing Fearsome Stare in exchange for it's goodies. Fade and Soul Absorption are game changers, the former being relatively simple to get close to perma (14% +DefAll and some free DDR to boot!), and the latter letting even the most thirsty power combos ignore endurance altogether when saturated (+50% recovery, and an additional 10% per corpse). Dark Control is also just as proc'able as the Blast, with Heart of Darkness being a standout AoE mini-nuke and fantastic opener. Umbra and it's backup dancers help keep damage rolling while you're throwing controls and support around, making for a much more comfortable and durable experience. Even defender's scalers don't give it much of a leg up here, since the -tohit from controller is already more than enough, especially when FS gets involved - and Howling Twilight isn't effected by it either way.

 

Even before 'trollers got a free bump in damage with fear being a valid source of containment and pets being able to trigger it, I'm hard pressed to think of a scenario I'd rather have the 'fender. Dark Blast just doesn't bring anything to the table that Dark Control doesn't outshine - the 'fender might have a ST damage advantage vs AVs... but even there, a procced out Dark Control isn't far enough behind to be noticeable, especially when supplemented with Arcane Bolt from sorcery. Umbra does good work when you can get him to sit still and focus (which 'troller can actually do now thanks to the most recent update) and that closes the margin further than you'd think, especially in the odd occasion when an AV lets you have containment.

 

All of that is to say... while D3 'fender was my first character on live and will always have a special place in my heart, I will always pick D3 'troller over it in a side by side comparison. You gain so much and lose so little. Whether that's telling of the awkward state Dark Blast is in, or just how strong Dark Control is, I could not tell you. Maybe a little bit of both.