Defender Damage?

[TheOtherTed]

I was mucking around in Pine's Hero Designer, comparing Archery damage across Defenders, Blasters, Corruptors, and Sentinels.  The base line damage for each of the Defender attacks is lower than for the other ATs (no surprise there), but when I click on any attack to add it to the build, an extra 30% damage is added to the base.

 

In addition, if I "View Totals" and select "Misc Buffs," I notice that there's a generic +30% Damage buff that shows up when you first click an attack.  For most archery attacks, this bumps damage from ~58% Blaster damage to ~75% - well above Corruptor damage (~67%), but still below Sentinel (~80%).

 

My questions:  Is this real, or an artifact of the Hero Designer?  If real, is the Corruptor Scourge effect sufficient to match or surpass this flat +30%?

[_NOPE_]

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Inherent_Powers#Vigilance

 

[Adeon Hawkwood]

As PK noted Defenders get a 30% damage buff while solo.

 

Now the thing is it's erroneous to say that this makes them do more damage than Corruptors because it only makes them do more damage if there's no enhancement slotting. The reason the value of 30% was selected is that this means Defenders and Corruptors do the same damage assuming 95% damage enhancement slotting.

 

If you stick three damage SOs in the power and then compare it to the same Corruptor power with three damage SOs you'll see the damage numbers be about the same.

 

Now Scourge means that Corruptors do deal more damage overall and have a higher base damage while teaming but the basic idea is that when solo the two ATs do the same base damage.

[TheOtherTed]

Ah, thanks, that clears it up.  I didn't realize Vigilance was that powerful, but then I didn't solo much with my Defs when the damage boost was added.  This makes me feel a lot better about running my latest concept as a Defender. :)

[Ankhammon]

As PK noted Defenders get a 30% damage buff while solo.

 

Now the thing is it's erroneous to say that this makes them do more damage than Corruptors because it only makes them do more damage if there's no enhancement slotting. The reason the value of 30% was selected is that this means Defenders and Corruptors do the same damage assuming 95% damage enhancement slotting.

 

If you stick three damage SOs in the power and then compare it to the same Corruptor power with three damage SOs you'll see the damage numbers be about the same.

 

Now Scourge means that Corruptors do deal more damage overall and have a higher base damage while teaming but the basic idea is that when solo the two ATs do the same base damage.

 

Has anyone ever done a "in Total" damage comparison between a Def and a Corrupt?

I'm imagining a same set comparison including what gets added with buffs/debuffs? I'm sure there are certain sets that would come out ahead for the defender. Perhaps a Poison/Sonic Defender vs a Sonic/Poison Corrupter?

[Hjarki]

Has anyone ever done a "in Total" damage comparison between a Def and a Corrupt?

 

Not a particularly accurate one.

 

The difficulty is that the amount of damage you deal depends greatly on the build - how you slot your character and what Incarnate abilities you choose.

 

Two major factors you don't see until you're comparing actual builds:

1. Defenders soft-cap much easier. Unless you're building a pure 'glass cannon', Corruptors generally need to make an enormous investment in defense that precludes them from optimizing their offense. In contrast, Defenders can explore all sorts of options that increase their dps because they've already solved the defense problem.

2. Defenders buff/debuff much better. The builds you see really making an impact at level 50 are ones with support sets that act as damage multipliers. However, those damage multipliers are larger for Defenders than Corruptors. Note: Tar Patch (Dark) and Sleet (Cold) are the same whether primary or secondary. Fulcrum Shift (Kinetics) is better for Defenders, but since you can reach +damage cap on either, the set tends to work better for Corruptors.

 

We should also recognize that the majority of the 'conventional wisdom' you see right now hasn't adjusted to the changes (Sniper attacks, PPM and knockback) and is instead based on how people remember the game when it is Live - so you're going to see a lot of opinions that are based on not realizing what can be done now.

 

Comparing dps is also difficult. The two most common metrics - AE farm times and Pylon tests - don't work well except in very controlled circumstances for Corruptors and Defenders. With Pylon tests, the widely varying levels of -regen throw off dps calculations (which were designed with Scrappers and other non-debuffing ATs in mind). With AE farms, the inability of most Defenders to contain a spawn while AE'ing it means that clear time isn't remotely reflective of dps output.

 

That being said, the highest dps builds between the two AT tend to be Defenders. You can also follow a general rule of "Defenders for AV/GM, Corruptors for large crowds".

[vyrzeden]

The other thing Corrs have going for them is that Scourge is "always there" from an inherent standpoint. The 30% dmg buff solo on defenders is great, but when you are teaming and no one is hurt, Vigilance does absolutely nothing. Which sucks when you can softcap an entire team/league by yourself...

[Ankhammon]

Vigilance on large teams provides a very nice end discount (up to 80%) for the defender. No damage anymore but the trade off I find to be worth it.

 

if I remember right, you get some +Dam if it's 1 or 2 teammates.

 

[Obitus]

Vigilance on large teams provides a very nice end discount (up to 80%) for the defender. No damage anymore but the trade off I find to be worth it.

 

if I remember right, you get some +Dam if it's 1 or 2 teammates.

 

You do get some damage if you have fewer than 3 teammates.  This link has a handy chart.

 

The Endurance discount only kicks in when your teammates are injured though, as far as I know.

[Ankhammon]

You do get some damage if you have fewer than 3 teammates.  This link has a handy chart.

 

thx for the link. At work and trying to remember don't always work well together. :)

 

and yeah, the discount works after teammate damage. I remember with my old Sonic/Sonic the whole team would have like 5-10% damage and my end bar would never move. It was awesome.

 

The Endurance discount only kicks in when your teammates are injured though, as far as I know.