Confused by LoTG and Red Fortune

[drgantz]

I've looked at these two sets and am confused.  Both have reduced recharge, which is useless because most powers that use them are toggles.

I don't understand why they are better than a simple Def IO, since that is all Def and only needs 3 slots (or maybe 4 to include End Red), and one of these could use 6 slots.

I'm playing an SR/EA Stalker, and am confused about what to  put in the Def power slots

[Riverdusk]

The trick is to not bother with the full set. 

 

Some of my common slotting options for a toggle defense power:

 

LoTG 3 slotted - defense, defense/endurance, and the def/+7.5% recharge.  That gets you to +54% defense (which is close to "max" with ED), 26.5% endurance reduction, and the 7.5% extra global recharge.  You then get some basically free regen and hps to go with it.

 

Reactive defense 3 slotted and 1 slot for the LoTG +7.5% recharge.  That gets you the same stats as above and slightly different set bonuses and gives you the reactive defense special scaling resistance bonus.

 

Shield wall 4 slotted.  Gets you the other special resistance piece (+5% to all) and 4 shield wall gives you a nice hefty 4.5% energy/negative resistance.  On EA you might not need the energy resistance but the negative resistance is sure nice.  That's the only one you'll have to have some slight 'waste' with recharge reduction, but often worth it.

 

I'd do some of those over just putting in regular IO's unless you are just trying to put together a budget build.  Personally I rarely bother with red fortune unless you are really trying to hit a +recharge goal.

 

Don't forget to also add in a kismet +6 tohit somewhere.

[Frozen Burn]

1 hour ago, drgantz said:

I've looked at these two sets and am confused.  Both have reduced recharge, which is useless because most powers that use them are toggles.

I don't understand why they are better than a simple Def IO, since that is all Def and only needs 3 slots (or maybe 4 to include End Red), and one of these could use 6 slots.

I'm playing an SR/EA Stalker, and am confused about what to  put in the Def power slots

 

You are pretty much right in that you really do not need the End/Rech or straight up Recharge IOs in toggles or auto powers, but sometimes, recharge can be useful in toggles for those times you get sapped and toggle drop, and especially if there are slow debuffs added on top of you - every little bit can help.  Also, there are click Defense powers where those and the Def/Rech IOs benefit.  Also,

 

I will 4 slot my Def powers with a Def/End, Def, Def/End/Rech, and Def/+Global Rech (LotG) - this gets you to the ED max of Defense and an SO's worth of end reduction.  (On the first defense-based power I have, I will add a 5th and 6th slot for the Shield Wall +Resist IO, and the Reactive Defenses +Scaling Resist IO.)

 

And even more personally, I slot 3 shield Walls or Reactive Defenses (Def/End, Def, Def/End/Rech) + the LotG Def/+Global Rech in my powers.  I like the Shield Wall and Reactive Defenses set bonuses far better then LotG or Red Fortune.

[Runaway]

16 hours ago, drgantz said:

I've looked at these two sets and am confused.  Both have reduced recharge, which is useless because most powers that use them are toggles.

I don't understand why they are better than a simple Def IO, since that is all Def and only needs 3 slots (or maybe 4 to include End Red), and one of these could use 6 slots.

 

I suspect that the confusion comes from a misunderstanding about set bonuses: Set bonuses are shared by all your powers (unless those powers explicitly state that they aren't affected by the modifier). You can stack up to 5 of the same set bonus, so you can slot 5x lotg7.5 in 5 different defence powers and that will apply an additional 37.5% recharge to all your powers. That 37.5 isn't affected by the diminishing returns that affects normal recharge IOs above ~85%. In attack powers, that 37.5 also won't lower proc chance per hit, which recharge IOs can do.

[JediDave]

1 hour ago, Runaway said:

 

I suspect that the confusion comes from a misunderstanding about set bonuses: Set bonuses are shared by all your powers (unless those powers explicitly state that they aren't affected by the modifier). You can stack up to 5 of the same set bonus, so you can slot 5x lotg7.5 in 5 different defence powers and that will apply an additional 37.5% recharge to all your powers. That 37.5 isn't affected by the diminishing returns that affects normal recharge IOs above ~85%. In attack powers, that 37.5 also won't lower proc chance per hit, which recharge IOs can do.

I think they are referring to a def/rech enhancement being wasted rech aspect on a toggle, not the 5% and 7.5% recharge set bonuses. They are (from my interpretation) not thinking about things like Fade, Farsight, Fortitude, etc that all need recharge and defense, and the OP is more focusing on armor sets having defense toggles. Unless they just think the set bonuses apply only to the power they're in, which would be odd with the HP/regen bonuses on LotG

[Runaway]

It was the only reason that I could think off, set bonuses is the reason that we slot enhancements with wasted modifiers. It's almost always going to be subtoptimal for that particular power, but better for the overall build.

[drgantz]

Thank you everyone for your advice.  It was all very helpful

[tidge]

Nothing improves character performance as much as +Recharge (especially Global Recharge), and since the LotG set includes a single piece that grants +7.5% Global Recharge, and be used 5 times) that is a common set choice. When I want the global recharge bonus, I will typically 2-slot (with Defense) or 3-slot (with Defense/---).  I have a small number of characters where I have slotted the +Recharge and boosted 50+5 pieces, but that is only because the base Defense value of a power is really high so the extra defense is slightly noticeable. Personally: I am not a huge fan of the set bonuses from either LotG or Red Fortune (never slot it), 3-pieces of Shield Wall is superior to LotG (modulo Global Recharge), and the PVP pieces can be boosted while preserving the set bonuses.

 

For click powers, I often consider 6xReactive Defenses. Extra recharge (from pieces) isn't usually wasted, and there are several set bonuses I like in it, including the scaling resistance piece.

 

I think it is fair to say: for many Defensive powers, it isn't always a bad choice to minimize slotting and use IOs or HOs in them, giving up set bonuses completely, as long as those slots are being used to provide something else.