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Dark Current
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Dark Current last won the day on October 28 2024
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DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
DEFCON 2 is here and it's time to compare Kinetics! DEFCON Level 2 has a Kinetics / Radiation / Psychic Defender squaring off with an Earth / Kinetics / Earth Controller in a winner-take-all matchup. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the Blue Corner, we have Chakra a mental guru whose decades of meditative training have exposed the universal strings connecting all matter in the universe, which he plays to move objects outside the timestream causing them to accelerate and decelerate, as well as snap the connections to unleash bursts of cosmic energy against his foes. MIDS Build: Chakra - Defender (Kinetics).mbd Build Discussion and Solo Showcase Video: COMING SOON TM -------------------------------------------------------------------------- And in the Red Corner, we have Deimos, a Controller of Tech Origin whose power suit is fitted with rare tectonite crystals that redirect seismic forces and telluric currents in a localized area, giving him the ability to warp stone and alter its magnetic fields. MIDS Build: Deimos - Controller (Earth Control).mbd Build Discussion and Solo Showcase Video: -
DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
Matchup was very close, but Defender gets the nod for more offensive contribution. He had a statistically significant higher number of foe defeats and damage output over his 5 missions compared to the Controller. The two were virtually identical in defensive measures - self defeats, ally defeats, damage taken. Defenders were my original go-to on live, followed by dominators when CoV launched. However, I've grown to enjoy controllers with HC launch a few years ago. For me, the combinations are what matters. I can make either AT work effectively and enjoy their contributions. I have favorite builds of both ATs and wouldn't necessarily pick one over the other. -
DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
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DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
What happened? What do Bhootakash's stats mean? My stat breakdown and telestrated reaction to the Bhootakhash team trials. -
DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
What happened? What do Marquis's stats mean? My stat breakdown and telestrated reaction to the Marquis's team trials -
DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
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DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
For comparison, I present Marquis du Temps stats with Time Manipulation vs. the previous 2 defenders (Ampere Avenger and Skreaming Tree) with Electrical and Nature Affinity. From this data, it seems that this build with Time is superior in multiple ways to the previous 2 defender builds. How much of that is due to Time Manipulation itself vs the defensive strategy of the build (massive -SPD and -RCH debuffery) remains to be seen. The controller data with the same sets could give insight into the answer if Bhootakash likewise shows the best results with her Time build. -
DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
DEFCON 3 Time Manipulation Controller - Team Trials Bhootakash (Gravity / Time / Energy) gathers a force 5 worthy guardians to restore order to the streets of Peregrine Isle. Mission Retrospective Mission 1 (Arachnos rescue, Hollow Point) = 25 minutes with 4 teammates Mission 2 (Carnies boss) = 28 minutes with 4 teammates Mission 3 (5th Column boss, Maelstrom) = 22 minutes with 4 teammates Mission 4 (Council boss) = 15 minutes with 4 teammates Safeguard (Carnies, Malta, Arachnos, Critical Mass) = 41 minutes with 4 teammates Total Time = 131 minutes DEFCON 3 Stats: 1. Survivability Mission Personal Defeats Time Teammate Survivability Rate Survivability Index 1 1 25 4 0.04 0.25 2 0 28 4 0.00 0.00 3 0 22 4 0.00 0.00 4 0 15 4 0.00 0.00 Safeguard 0 41 4 0.00 0.00 Total à 1 131 0.01 0.05 ß AVG 2. Risk Mission Ally Defeats Time Teammate Risk Rate Risk Index 1 2 25 4 0.08 0.50 2 1 28 4 0.04 0.25 3 1 22 4 0.05 0.25 4 1 15 4 0.07 0.25 Safeguard 4 41 4 0.10 1.00 Total à 9 131 0.07 0.45 ß AVG 3. Lethality Mission Kills Time Teammate Lethality Rate Lethality Index 1 91 25 4 3.64 22.75 2 101 28 4 3.61 25.25 3 45 22 4 2.05 11.25 4 45 15 4 3.00 11.25 Safeguard 87 41 4 2.12 21.75 Total à 369 131 2.88 18.45 ß AVG 4. Threat Personal Damage Output Mission: 1 2 3 4 Safeguard Attack Total: Crushing Field 4034 3342 1351 1475 2731 12934 Impeded Swiftness 1831 1258 481 658 745 4973 Positron's Blast 1431 1051 726 340 1018 4565 Superior Will of the Controller 3160 2097 891 1641 2096 9884 Trap of the Hunter 1347 1527 522 513 1007 4917 Energy Torrent 6706 8680 3384 1863 7580 28213 Gravity Distortion 3344 4311 3057 1948 6309 18970 Apocalypse 1317 2130 1280 757 2987 8471 Lift 3362 5877 3664 2948 7254 23105 Power Blast 812 1315 1268 813 2580 6789 Propel 5699 8097 5635 4311 8286 32028 Time's Juncture (Ice Mistral's Torment) 2160 3123 1429 1059 2931 10701 Weaken Resolve (Shield Breaker) 641 224 203 30 382 1480 Cryonic Total Radial Judgement 15109 15015 11365 6474 21655 69618 Mission Total: 50952 58046 35256 24830 67562 236647 Pet Damage Output Pet 1 2 3 4 Safeguard Pet Total: Energy Font (Distortion Field) 2720 4761 1095 746 2881 12204 Singularity 19792 16844 7758 9530 11322 65245 Storm Elemental 5843 6932 1880 3206 9616 27477 Tempest Elemental 14773 16540 2769 12726 19044 65852 Mission Total: 43129 45077 13501 26208 42863 170778 Combined Damage Output Mission DMG out Time Teammate Threat Rate Threat Index 1 94081 25 4 3763 23520 2 103122 28 4 3683 25781 3 48758 22 4 2216 12189 4 51038 15 4 3403 12760 Safeguard 110426 41 4 2693 27606 Total à 407425 131 3152 20371 ß AVG 5. Resilience Type of Damage Taken Mission: 1 2 3 4 Mayhem Type Total Cold 0 0 510 69 1575 2154 Energy 4083 342 261 101 791 5578 Fire 176 383 4278 1310 3113 9259 Lethal 306 33 1896 156 1832 4223 Negative Energy 0 187 232 3277 389 4084 Psionic 4655 5016 0 0 8450 18122 Smashing 318 151 490 74 1016 2048 Toxic 1972 0 327 0 0 2299 Mission Total: 11511 6112 7993 4986 17166 47768 Overall Damage Taken Mission DMG in Time Teammate Resilience Rate Resilience Index 1 11511 25 4 460 2878 2 6112 28 4 218 1528 3 7993 22 4 363 1998 4 4986 15 4 332 1247 Safeguard 17166 41 4 419 4291 Total à 47768 131 359 2388 ß AVG -
DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
DEFCON 3 Time Manipulation Defender - Team Trials Marquis du Temps (Time / DP / Ice) winds up a steady team of 5 for 5 straight missions, ending in a 30-minute romp through the streets of Peregrine Isle in defense of the citizenry: Stats: Rates = per minute calculations; Indexes = per teammate calculations 1. Survivability Mission Personal Defeats Time Teammate Survivability Rate Survivability Index 1 0 8 5 0.00 0.00 2 0 12 5 0.00 0.00 3 0 6 5 0.00 0.00 4 0 16 5 0.00 0.00 safeguard 0 30 4 0.00 0.00 Total à 0 72 0.00 0.00 ß AVG 2. Risk Mission Ally Defeats Time Teammate Risk Rate Risk Index 1 1 8 5 0.13 0.20 2 0 12 5 0.00 0.00 3 0 6 5 0.00 0.00 4 0 16 5 0.00 0.00 safeguard 3 30 4 0.10 0.75 Total à 4 72 0.05 0.19 ß AVG 3. Lethality Mission Kills Time Teammate Lethality Rate Lethality Index 1 42 8 5 5.25 8.40 2 53 12 5 4.42 10.60 3 26 6 5 4.33 5.20 4 31 16 5 1.94 6.20 safeguard 127 30 4 4.23 31.75 Total à 279 72 4.03 12.43 ß AVG 4. Threat Mission: 1 2 3 4 safeguard Attack total: Bullet Rain 4993 6468 2959 4179 12845 31444 Dual Wield 372 647 105 2211 5877 9211 Empty Clips 3324 4102 3222 1177 25104 36929 Executioner's Shot 374 587 449 832 3636 5879 Hail of Bullets 6302 10451 1032 6121 2806 26711 Piercing Rounds 681 2480 992 1714 7934 13801 Pistols 130 462 294 314 4624 5824 Suppressive Fire 238 272 271 175 131 1086 Distortion Field: Impeded. Swiftness 865 2043 465 1032 3226 7631 Slowed Response: Shield Break 1597 474 206 1781 2798 6856 Time Stop: GW’s Embrace 30 161 84 112 320 706 Time Stop: Gladiator's Net 54 322 93 1363 799 2632 Time Stop: Unbreakable Constraint 251 1142 93 261 224 1972 Doublehit (Hybrid: Assault) 727 1054 1778 488 1795 5842 Ion Radial (Judgement) 14360 10095 3428 13734 25791 67408 Ion Total Radial (Judgement) 1197 2687 738 1768 1615 8006 Mission Total: 35493 43446 16207 37263 99526 231935 Pet Damage Output Mission: 1 2 3 4 Safeguard Pet Total: Ice Elemental (Ice Mistral Torment) 293 4778 1178 1334 10262 17844 Laser Drone Essence 4637 4628 2945 3482 8833 24524 Shield Drone Essence 2081 3328 1496 2555 5948 15407 Mission Total: 7010 12733 5618 7370 25043 57774 Combined Damage Output Mission DMG out Time Teammate Threat Rate Threat Index 1 42504 8 5 5313 8501 2 56179 12 5 4682 11236 3 21825 6 5 3638 4365 4 44633 16 5 2790 8927 safeguard 124568 30 4 4152 31142 Total à 289709 72 4115 12834 ß AVG 5. Resilience Damage Type Taken Type: 1 2 3 4 Safeguard Type Total Cold 0 0 0 0 335 335 Energy 0 1517 0 0 794 2310 Fire 2307 0 0 624 2148 5079 Lethal 1476 77 13 1037 5280 7882 Negative Energy 0 0 0 154 531 685 Psionic 0 788 0 0 3576 4364 Smashing 891 120 0 534 1042 2587 Toxic 2601 123 519 262 0 3505 Mission Total: 7274 2624 532 2611 13706 26747 Overall Damage Taken Mission DMG in Time Teammate Resilience Rate Resilience Index 1 7274 8 5 909 1455 2 2624 12 5 219 525 3 532 6 5 89 106 4 2611 16 5 163 522 safeguard 13706 30 4 457 3426 Total à 26747 72 367 1207 ß AVG -
DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
Bhootakash demonstrates why she is known as the Crushing Death! -
DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
Marquis du Temps unwinds with his build and solo showcase: Time is luxury he can afford! -
DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
Appreciate the support and you seeing the value of the combined data here. It's not just on-paper evaluation, which marks most comparisons of this type of question. And it's not just a one-time mission or taskforce observation. It's a sum of multiple missions and multiple builds with multiple teams and maps and foes. It's a combination of quantitative measurements combined with qualitative experiences and supported by the videos and posted stats that anybody else can comb through and come to their own conclusions. I know the initial response was critical, but it was based on a single presentation of the first data set, which I think ignores what's been added since and the overall scope of the study. With that said, I present DEFCON 3... Time Manipulation! DEFCON Level 3 pits a Dual Pistols / Time Manipulation / Ice Mastery Defender against a Gravity / Time / Energy Controller in a battle for supremacy over the timestream. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Starting in the Blue Corner... the Tycoon of Time, Marquis du Temps! MIDS Build: Marquis du Temps 2 - Defender (Time Manipulation).mbd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ And in the Red Corner, the Queen of Crushing Death, Mistress of Time and Space... Bhootakash MIDS Build: Bhootakash - Controller (Gravity Control).mbd -
DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
DEFCON 4 Nature Affinity Verdict Is In! caveat - all stats, results and conclusions are based on this one test of 2 builds on 5 missions and is not meant to conclude anything beyond that framework. Analyses were based on the following 5 stats collected from /logchat: 1. Survivability = personal defeats 2. Risk = ally defeats 3. Lethality = foe defeats 4. Threat = damage output 5. Resilience = damage input *Liability Ratio derived stat was determined by comparing the Threat : Resilience values Calculations performed: Means = Average Stat over span of 5 (6) missions Rates = Stat / Minute calculation Indexes = Stat / Teammate calculation Composites = Rate / Teammate* *likely replacing Indexes in future analyses Statistics performed: Correlation = R-square of line of 'best fit' to identify 'real' relationships between Time (x) and Stat (y). True Relationship established with 0.90 or greater. Distribution = Box n Whisker Plot of Indexes to determine if Stat distribution is related to teammate number. Narrow distributions indicate consistent 'per teammate' data, which is expected with consistent teammate number and identity between missions. Broad distributions indicate inconsistent 'per teammate' data, which is expected if teammate number and identity are variable. Overlapping Box Plot indicates no significant difference between compared DEF v CON. Standard Error = Bar Graph of Average Stat Rates with Error Bars. Overlap between Error Bars indicates no significant difference between compared DEF v CON. Results (posting only graphs showing statistically useful values - watch video for full breakdown): Defender demonstrates significant correlation Defender demonstrates significant correlation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Controller shows slightly significant Lethality Rate advantage Controller shows significant Resilience Rate advantage Controller shows very significant Liability Ratio advantage ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Controller composite indicates damage output is slightly superior Conclusions While the slight advantage in damage output by the controller (Fey Wode) can be explained by in-game observations (see the previously posted Team videos), it is clear there is a significant difference in the amount of Damage Input (taken) by the controller vs the defender (Skreaming Tree). Fey Wode took significantly less damage than Skreaming Tree and this cannot be fully explained by team, mission or tactic variables. Her per minute rate of incoming damage was LESS THAN HALF that taken by her defender counterpart despite having run one extra mission and spending nearly 20 minutes longer on the test with smaller teams. Further demonstrating her superior performance is the Liability Ratio Standard Error comparison. Her Liability Ratio takes into account both her statistically significant Resilience difference along with her slightly significant difference in Threat (damage out). This Standard Error graph clearly indicates a dramatic difference between controller and defender in these tests, wherein Fey Wode produced nearly 4x the Damage out : Damage in. Most of this difference can be attributed to her much lower Resilience rate. From my observations and review of the character Builds, Solo missions and Team missions, I attribute her far superior Resilience values to the -To Hit Debuff secondary effects of Dark Control. So while the defender build was producing faster results (likely from greater team damage due to stacking -RES debuffs), the controller was avoiding being hit and taking damage altogether. The combination of controls and -to hit debuffs that Fey Wode was able to combine created a superior support character despite Skreaming Tree having much stronger buff numbers (for example, he produced double the Absorb numbers when using Wild Bastion). This difference may, however, be inconsequential as although the Defender (and likely his teammates) were being hit more often and thus taking more damage, his superior Buff numbers from Heal, Absorb, and Regen may simply make the extra incoming damage moot. That said, I think the advantage this controller brings is in the direct application of damage mitigation from controls and debuffs to the enemy, which will benefit the entire team, whereas the defender's superior buffs require allies willing and able to remain within range of support clicks like the above-mentioned Wild Bastion. One area that is difficult to measure is the effect of the -RES debuffs of sonic attack. The shorter mission times and Skreaming Tree's relatively lower damage output are signs that the enemies are being defeated faster likely because allies' damage output was higher. However, without those ally stats to analyze directly, it's impossible to say for certain. A final thing that can't be overlooked is the sheer damage output of the pets, mostly in the controller's column, in these tests. Fey Wode's pets collectively out damaged her throughout all 6 of her test missions. Skreaming Tree's lore pets, meanwhile, contributed substantially to his Threat numbers as well, but he lacks the additional pets available to a Dark Control controller from Shades and Umbral Beast. I surmise that if a defender can acquire an additional damaging pet through the Patron Pools, that would significantly increase their offensive output and combined with their blast allow them to out damage many controller combinations routinely. -
DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
Thanks for joining up for the test in part 2. That was a solid team. I thought we were going to steamroll all 3 missions, but then things got a little too loose on the Mayhem. Good stuff. -
DEFCON 5: Defender vs Controller - Which is the Better Support AT?
Dark Current replied to Dark Current's topic in Archetypes
Here are the links to the Reaction Vids where I discuss some of the above DEF-DEF and CON-CON comparisons. DEFENDER - Nature / Sonic / Energy CONTROLLER - Dark / Nature / Dark The DEFCON 4 Verdict video is releasing tomorrow.