Linea
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I turn the logs and timestamps on, then use the logs.
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Somewhere, once upon a time, one of the devs mentioned that for some odd reason, BU and/or Aim were not a full 10.0 seconds, but instead it was something like 9.3 seconds. But that was years and years and years ago, so I don't remember the exact decimal.
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14 hours ago, Seed22 said:
My blaster outsurvived a sent, on several occasions.
Correlation isn't Causation. You're conflating player and build and AT. My armored blaster is more durable than 80% of the tanks I meet, ..., be careful what conclusions you draw from that.
I rate Blasters at most 4 on my durability scale, Sentinels and Scrappers both rate up to 6.
SpoilerLinea Durability Ratings
Based on Solo +4x8 AE 801.# capability. Where # is 0 to F, Hexadecimal, where F is 15.
EX: 801.2 is the standard armor test. If you can complete 801.2 then you have enough dps and durability for 95% of the game.
Anything rated 2 or above can tank the majority of official content.
Most tanks driven by most players do not even rate 2.
Defense Tanks rate 6 to 13.
Resist Tanks rate 5 to 7.
Heal-Amor Tanks rate 5 to 6. Although I have had other players report BIO on Tanks up to 7.
Defense Brutes rate 5 to 10
Resist Brutes rate 5 to 7, but tanks rate higher more easily.
Heal-Armor Brutes rate 2 to 5
Defense Scrappers, Stalkers, and Sentinels rate 2 to 6.
Resist Scrappers, Stalkers and Sentinels are unrated, but should rate 2 to 4
Heal-Armor Scrappers rate 2 to 3
Veats, Heats, Defenders rate 2 to 5 ... I ran an empath through 2, once and only once. If you want to discount that, then rate them 1 to 5.
Some truly exceptional Veats or Heats may rate 6.
Masterminds, Corruptors, Controllers and Doms are not far behind Defenders, and rate 0 to 5, but are harder to get to rate higher.
Some truly exceptional Controllers and Doms rate 6. I am NOT that player, mine rate 2 to 5.
Blasters rate 0 to 4
Regen is Unrated, in this context Heal-Armor means Willpower and Bio Armor.
If you want to account for build quality, set all low end numbers to zero.
Defenses Armors rate up to 13
Resist Armors rate up to 6
Heal-Tank Armors rate up to 5
IO Armor rates up to 2
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8 daggers will drop anything. I think it only takes 4 daggers, assuming reasonable recharge rates. Master Runs probably disable the daggers, you'd want to check that beforehand.
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and/or Katana and Broadsword.
Here's a very old alpha build I tested for the initial i25.
It works, but is very difficult to drive, and in general you'll get more out of and be easier to drive /Bio or /WP for less input in both cost and player resources.
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On 4/30/2022 at 6:15 PM, Werner said:
avoid triggering the Kheldian ambush
Stay between her and the altar.
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2 hours ago, Troo said:
Cimerorans.. do non-damage mitigations count?
I am primarily testing the armors, so the only 'active offensive mitigation I ever used was Divine Avalanche and target swapping so I didn't accidentally kill anything. I only used Divine Avalanche because I was specifically and purposefully Pairing Defensive Weapons with Heal-Armor sets. Pairing Defensive Weapons with Heal-Armor sets is a recommendation I continue to stand by. Heals, Absorbs, Regen, (almost) anything that isn't offensive. If you're running DM/TissuePaper because you want to see how the DM Heal effects the TissuePaper set, then of course using the heal is ok, but like Divine Avalanche, rotate targets so you don't accidentally kill anything. I did not use damage auras or Burn for instance. But at the same time, you'd have to decide for yourself what rules you want to follow.
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Any of those three should be fine. A Pair of Very lightly armored /RadA brutes won my ITF contest with considerably less armor than I would have ever put on a build. But also keep in mind those were two extremely high quality drivers inside those brutes, so your mileage may vary significantly.
Armor Types (Armor Recommendations):
SpoilerArmor Types (Armor Recommendations):
I recommend:
Defense Armor: EnA (Any AT), Inv/ and SD/ as the Tank Alternatives.
Resist Armor: RadA (Brutes and Tanks Only).
Heal Armor: Bio (Any AT, paired with a Defensive Weapon).
Offense Armor: SD, Bio
Defense Armors, Expanded and In Order of Durability: EnA (Any AT, Add Resists, Intermediate), SR (Advanced), SD (Intermediate), Inv (Easy). If you’re not picking EnA, I Recommend Inv. Inv is very easy to learn and drive, and very durable. Once you get your feet under you, then you can pick some of the more difficult to drive armors. My personal Favorites are EnA and SD, but I find myself driving EnA and Inv most often.
Notes:
- Stone can still be very good, I just very much dislike Stone. I would rank stone somewhere between Inv and SD for durability.
- EnA is not on tanks, if it ever is, I might be forced to move it up or down the ratings, depending on how it's ported.
- Most SR builds do not add the resists required to get it to the rating I give it. SR is also the most difficult to drive if built my way.
- Most SD builds also do not add the resists required to get to the rating I give it. I use all three SD build slots: Defense, Psi-Tank, Proc/Offense.
- Inv is more likely to be built to defensive spec, it's just kinda naturally built that way. It's also so easy to drive. It's pretty much recommends itself.
Heal: Regen
Heal/Defense/Resist: Bio, Will
MRA: Nin, SR,
MRA/Res: SD,
Resist: DA, ElA, FA, Rad,
SLE: EnA, Ice
SLE/Res: Inv, Stone
SLE/Vec: Ice,
Psionic (in order): Dark, ELA, WP, Rad
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46 minutes ago, Troo said:
Please share,
Mr G's Arc: but it kills (almost) everyone.
Cimmie Test: Grab three groups of Cimmies, make sure to maintain aggro on the 6 bosses, (no offensive powers) for 10 minutes, if you live you pass.
Standard Enemies Cave Test: Cimmies, Arachnos, Longbow, IDF, Carnies, all in a custom group in a cave map of all patrols, if you can hold and clear intersection 3 till it's empty, you pass. I removed that one after I expanded 801, but it should be easy enough to recreate on your own in just a few minutes. You can also test the various factions separately, which may or may not be more difficult depending on the RNG. I just cram them all together and call it good.
AE 801: ... or use just 801 😜. Testing armors is the primary reason it even exists, the secondary being that people asked for more. Start at 801.0, and work your way up. Use the '801 Static' versions if you just want a quick test.
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9 hours ago, SomeGuy said:
... did a thing on Brainstorm ... Either way, EA is a power house
Thanks. and yes, EnA is a beast.
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I thought I saw a 500 or 600 dps Kat/Ena recently, but now I can't find it. If anyone has a build for that, I'd like to see it.
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4 hours ago, SomeGuy said:
I'd love to head @Linea's opinion of the scrapper version in regards to NOT DYING.
It's really one of those things you just have to do to find out.
I've been running mostly 6 and higher for the last, year? so my feeling for lower difficulties and builds is a bit dated.
Assuming +4x8, Total WAG:
On a DPS build: I'd try 801.0-Static and 801.3-Static, in that order, and call it good with whatever it shakes out.
On an Armored build: I would think at least 801.2, and at most 801.5. I'd start with the 801.3-Static for a quick test to narrow it down for this one.
801.6 will eat you for breakfast. But if you want to try it anyway, try 801.6-Static.
Search '801 Static'. The Static versions are the shortest quickest tests, they aren't comprehensive, but they are predictable and you can narrow things down more quickly than running the longer versions.
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9 hours ago, Ston said:
Katana is definitely a top set when it comes to sustained ST dps. They don't know what they're talking about. The AoE clear speed is no slouch either.. my kat/rad could clear trash mobs pretty quickly.
Kat is 'tink tink tink, tink tink tink' instead of 'kthump .... Kthump ... ... ... KTHUMP!'. As a result it's misleading to many people. I generally rate Kat near the bottom of the top third, with several better performing sets, but at the same time it's right up there with the best of them. I rate it highest of the defensive and utility weapons. It's also probably my favorite melee set.
PS: 600 dps is terrific, that's very hard to beat. You should post your build, too. 8-)
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The combat teleport bind on Translocation isn't bad, I'm addicted to it now, and it's slowly getting forwarded to all the live builds. Actual combat teleport is 10x faster
I didn't even look at D-Syncs. I rarely do. I'll swap them in, but I'm not likely to actually pay for them and put them in the build when built.
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Here are a pair of alpha pass /Stone based on Angel Hornet conversions.
Angel Hornet Converted to StA
EnM StA ShadowMeld Scrapper - Angel 2J - [i25].mxd
Then Converted to Kat
Kat StA ShadowMeld Scrapper - Angel 2J - [i25].mxd
And the original source file
EnM Ena ShadowMeld Scrapper - 801 - Recharge-T9 ver 2J - [i25].mxd
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For alpha testing of generic group make up, I'd suggest older generic maps that spawn much more consistently than the newer map sets. Then once you get your group fairly well balanced, transition it to the newer more erratic mapsets, understanding further adjustments will need to be made. I tend to use smaller old warehouse maps at first, then once I'm fairly confident, I use the troll cave with 99 spawn points, and cruise around checking each spawn. If 99 +4x8 spawns look good, then you probably have the first pass of your group in good shape.
Spawn composition varies by map and spawn point type, and every spawn point will not always be used every time, even if you max out usage.
10+6+4 is 20. I'd guess Your map isn't limiting the top end to 16 like most of the older maps, but instead letting it max out randomly. The only way to know for sure is to spawn it multiple times in test mode. PLEASE do make sure to spawn it and test it +4x8 at least a few times, using test mode. Otherwise you could easily and unknowingly create an absolute horror that no team can run.
MOST of the maps, and particularly most of the older maps are very generic, similar, and boringly predictable. The newest maps are the most diverse and most likely to vary, and even use different mechanics. I can tell from the screen shot that's one of the newer maps. But it should be consistent within that map, once you learn it, understanding there is a bit of randomness tossed in. The fun part here is, the next map in the same set may have completely different spawn points and rules too.
There are a few map sets that I've never been able to use effectively due to map or spawndef odditities, so be aware, there may be a small number of mapsets that just simply won't work for what you want. This is most common in the newest mapsets.
On a similar note, each 801 spawn is intended to test something specific, meet both a maximum and minimum combat time, and some other factors. This also severely limits that number of maps that are 801 compatible, but THAT particular limitation is as much on MY end as it is the map itself. Some maps were originally designed with the intent of being extra easy, low triangle count, etc .... these don't work well for 801. This is most common in the oldest mapsets.
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MOST AE maps approximately spawn by:
{(Minion, Random Index, Linear 8 to 10), (Lt, Random Index, Linear 4 to 6), (Boss, Random Index, Linear 2 to 4), (Optional EB/AV, Random Index, Linear (probably 4)),} Loop until the spawn is full. Full at +4x8 is usually 16, with 2 to 4 bosses, 4 to 6 lts, and 8 to 10 minions.
EB/AV only spawn if there are no minions, lts, nor bosses.
If you do not have at least 1 minion, lt, and boss, XP is nerfed.
If you are missing minions, then it runs addtional loops on lts and bosses. the same for the other subgroups.
It re-random_indexs for each subset itteration
+4x8 all bosses in a group, you'll get effectively 4 linear groups of 4 bosses, but with 4 random starting indexes, so overlaps are effectively guaranteed unless you have a very high number of bosses in the group. (Random Index, 4 Linear Bosses), (Random Index, 4 Linear Bosses), (Random Index, 4 Linear Bosses), (Random Index, 4 Linear Bosses), done. This can look like (A,B,C,D), (B,C,D,E),(D,E,F,G),(G,H,I,J); and many other similar variations. Overlap is neither guaranteed, nor not guaranteed, but it will be related to the odds of a random index roll landing inside your previous linear selection(s).
This is why 801 groups typically have 120 or more entities, and those entities are carefully arranged in subsets of 4. The subsets of 4 ensure the ratio of Debuff, DPS, Support, Tank mobs within the spawn. It doesn't enfore any exact mob, but it enforces the random statistical ratios.
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On 4/9/2022 at 11:30 PM, Snarky said:
I hope it holds up that well for its intended purposes. It was seriously easy to rotate through my attacks. Pop a purple once in a while. Not even all the time and doubt I needed it.
It will for everything outside of Psionics. For the Psionics, use Dual Def/Res or a pair of (Def/Res, Res), and/or the psionic temps, I can't think of all the names, but one I think is an accolade, the other buyable from vanguard, and the rest are scattered around.
You may also need to be cautious of:
The few very high level incarnate trials/arcs if you aren't +3d (59 tohit AND psionic). Once you are +3 you might still have the rare moment, but it should be much easier.
That one mission in Mr G's arc will probably slaughter you, but it slaughters almost everyone. I struggle through it with anything that isn't full psionic armored.
Solo +4x8 801.6 and up will eat you for breakfast, but 801.2 does that for most.
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7 hours ago, ArchmageMC said:
I don't know a single defense set for a tanker that can cap Resist on a defense set.
Here's Angel Hornet, Lucy Medrano, and Skylark Walker.
Lucy's numbers will vary in differing combat states similar but to a much lesser extent than Angel's vary.
Skylark I let the resistance slip a few points when HP is up, and vice versa, so here numbers vary more widely, and are very similar to Angel's variance. Skylark's valleys get a little hairy every now and then if the timing is off badly.
Spoiler
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52 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:
Defence sets definitely seem to fair better as the content gets harder than resist sets or heal sets.
It's a game imbalance. Defense sets can cap defense, ddr, resist, and rdr. Resist sets can cap resist, rdr, lack in defense, and are severely restricted in the amount of ddr they can get.
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1 hour ago, Krimson said:
It was just your run of the mill "Sentinels Suck" people.
- Sentinels have their place. I have a sentinel player that joins almost daily and runs either Sentinels or Defenders each day. I run 801 teams up to 7 with a sentinel, and even All Sentinel 801 teams. 6 is safer, but 7 is doable as a team.
46 minutes ago, Snarky said:So.... no matter how many examples I show of this Brute can do better than that Tank you will state that as a fringe case. Interesting.
Still sticking by my rebuttal point. Tanks are not always better than Brutes.
- A Linea built defender is more durable than most tanks, and has more firepower than most blasters. That does not mean defenders are more durable than tanks, nor does it mean that defenders have more firepower than blasters.
- Mirrored builds Brute vs Tank, driven by the same player, the tank should be either easier to build, or more durable, or both. But I'm sure it's possible to create some wonky build where this is not true.
2 hours ago, Snarky said:Which (please stay with me here) proves that your original statement is incorrect.
- Below is a slightly more specific answer ... and after that I just do not have any more time to spare on the subject.
Linea Durability Ratings (Revised)
Anything rated above 2 can tank the majority of official content
Most tanks driven by most players do not even rate 2
Defense Tanks rate 6 to 13
Resist Tanks rate 5 to 7
Heal-Amor Tanks rate 5 to 6
Defense Brutes rate 5 to 10
Resist Brutes rate 5 to 7, but tanks rate higher more easily
Heal-Armor Brutes rate 2 to 5
Defense Scrappers, Stalkers, and Sentinels rate 2 to 6
Resist Scrappers, Stalkers and Sentinels are unrated, but should rate 2 to 3
Heal-Armor Scrappers rate 2 to 3
Veats, Heats, Defenders rate 2 to 5 ... I ran an empath through 2, once and only once. If you want to discount that, then rate them 1 to 5
Some truly exceptional Veats or Heats may rate 6
Masterminds, Corruptors, Controllers and Doms are not far behind Defenders, and rate 0 to 5, but are harder to get to rate higher
Some truly exceptional Controllers and Doms rate 6. I am NOT that player, mine rate 2 to 5
Blasters rate 0 to 4
Regen is Unrated, in this context Heal-Armor means Willpower and Bio Armor
If you want to account for build quality, set all low end numbers to zero
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3 minutes ago, Snarky said:
I. An tell tou for a fact I can out tank a good third of the Tank armor powersets.
- Brute defense armors built to maximum durability will in most cases rate higher than Tank Resist Armors and Tank Heal-Tank Armors. This is the nature of the game, ATs partially overlap.
- Given Tank Inv/Dark and Brute Dark/Inv both built to maximum durability, the Tank will be more durable if for no other reason than it's easier to build, has a few extra ios, is easier to drive, and has a few more HP.
13 minutes ago, Snarky said:... powersets ...
- If you want to be precise, you'd need an evaluation of every Primary and Secondary combination. I don't have time to go through every armor set, and I definitely don't have time for every primary and secondary.
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1 hour ago, zenijos10 said:
Is there an underlying mathematic model for these scores or is this just how they feel to you?
It's the difficulty number of 801 I can solo with a given AT, or that I've seen another comfortably team tank without significant buffing.
Standard content is not overly useful to me for measuring potential durability. I've soloed a +4x8 ITF with everything except a petless MM, and that lack was due to lack of offense, not durability issues.
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Linea Durability Ratings
Anything rated above 2 can tank the majority of official content.
Tanks rate up to 13.
Brutes rate up to 10.
ANY Tank or Brute can rate at least 6. ... The only possible exception would be regen, I just don't see that many regens these days.
Scrappers, Stalkers, and Sentinels up to 6.
I would rate some truly exceptional Controllers and Doms as 6, but in general these will rate lower.
Veats, Heats, Defenders rate up to 5.
Masterminds, Corruptors, Controllers and Doms are not far behind Defenders, and also rate up to 5, but are much harder to get there.
Blasters rate up to 3 or 4.
Defenses Armors rate up to 13
Resist Armors rate up to 6
Heal-Tank Armors rate up to 5
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Original CoH player here, just discovered Homecoming, have Scrapper questions...
in Scrapper
Posted
Stone Armor for scrappers, is a whole new ballgame.
EnM, EnA, DB, and other sets have many changes and improvements.
Kat/Bio is a tonne or two of fun.
Kat/Ena can be somewhat leveling friendly.
EnM/Ena is my current monster for soloing the most difficult content.