[Is it a shame that I have never played....]

On 9/3/2022 at 10:21 AM, Infinitum said:

It's good on Brute's but IMO better on Scrappers and Stalkers.  There again that all depends on the pairing with it.

I'd say DB on scrapper. At least moderate recharge 130-ish for the second best chain, or high-recharge perma-hasten for the best chain.  I had good results with DB/Bio on moderate recharge and heavy armor.

[How to Drive an Angel Hornet – EnM/EnA Hardmode Scrapper]

It varies.  Usually Carnies.  Ageless +ddr, but sometimes barrier radial Resurrect x 2, if the team has +recovery to cover my crashes.  Probably Agility, but I have a few more crafted that I use as needed.  Degen usually, but I probably have reactive too.  Almost always Void -damage, but sometimes I'll have pyronic or ionic.   Almost always Hybrid Melee Core, but I so sometimes use Incandescent or others.

[Softcap for new ITF?]

14 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

 I think at that point we were going on about 2 hours if not 3.

The average 4-star random team run is about 3 hours and 150 deaths.   That will improve with time, but for now you should always assume at least 3 hours.

[If you had to choose 1 Defender to run all the TFs, what defender would you choose ??]

I don't have an updated /Dark.  You'll have to translate one of the other builds to /Dark.

FF DP Scorpion Def - STF SLE 1c - [i25].mxdFF Water Dark - Soul Drain - Overwatch 1 - [i25].mxdFF Water Soul - Heavy Support 57-74 - Overwatch 1 - [i25].mxd

[Softcap for new ITF?]

I would say +50 minimum over the standard soft-cap.  Most of the random runs I've joined have said "Use Barrier if your defense drops below 100".  That's probably good general advice for random teams.  It'll still get you killed if you over-pull, but if you want to keep instructions as simple as possible, that's probably the answer.

 

Assuming 4-star

Most groups have an EB backing them, or at least something like a 1/3.  It's not at all uncommon: Base 45 + ceiling(25,(10 *  floor(0,4 - 1)))) + ( Tactics Stacking 25 * 1)  = 95 Defense.

Several times per mission it will not be unusual to face 2 EBs or the equivalent: Base 45 + ceiling(25,(10 *  floor(0,4 - 1)))) + ( Tactics Stacking 25 * 2)  = 120 defense

Most of the AVs have a least a single version of tactics themselves, something in the range of: Base 64 + ceiling(25,(10 *  floor(0,4 - 1)))) + ( Tactics Stacking 25 * 1) = 139 Defense.

And it will not be unusual to see AVs with a double powered tactics and one EB nearby:  Base 64 + ceiling(25,(10 *  floor(0,4 - 1)))) + ( Tactics Stacking 25 * (2+1))  = 189 Defense.

 

[Softcap for new ITF?]

4 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

It's not negligible when you're built for 53.75% defense to MRA.

That would be an exception to the rule, where the last 5% cumulative is much more valuable than the first 5% in isolation, when applied to standard Incarnate Arcs, and would not be very helpful vs 4-Star Rommy and his 138.75 defense soft-cap. 

[Softcap for new ITF?]

4 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

at 175 and eating a ton of incoming.

The other side of this coin is, 'Don't Pull a Leroy Jenkins'.  No one said you have to Speed Run a 4-Star.   If you slow down and use a little strategy, you can keep the stacking tactics to 1 copy most of the time, with only the rare 2 stacks.  Then you can subtract 50 from all the above numbers, just by playing smart, then even the squishies can be defense capped vs even Rommy.

[Softcap for new ITF?]

Most people are under the impression that Barrier is godmode for 2 minutes ... it's not.  It's about 20 seconds, maybe 30, then negligible.   But rotate it with some barrier teammates and .... then it IS godmode.

[Katana/Energy Brute build]

Dampeners are 15-ish SL (probably 12 or 13 for scrapper), you use alternate sets for the other things, you end up with SL around 45 defense, as well as whatever other stuff.   Divine Avalanche can stack, up to 3 times, but probably only twice at that level.   Before the defense changes of Page 4, that SL was skewed into other defense types.  And you have good M defense as well to help with the other types, and at that level M/SL is really the only 'dangerous' type.

 

You would also likely want to use a different build for low level.   That's the 801 build, end-game, revised many times for specific end-game stuff.   Leveling up it would be considerably beneficial to shake it up a bit, aimed more toward your level.   I do all that kind of adjustment on the fly as I go, usually don't even write it down as I level, just do it.

[Softcap for new ITF?]

4 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

either way you're at 175 and eating a ton of incoming.

The only thing overcapping does is compensate for debuffs some of the incoming debuffs.  175 is the HARD cap.

Barriers are only at full strength for a few seconds, then drop in half exponentially over time.   Combat Monitor only updates every 10 seconds, your barrier could have expired 9 seconds ago and you just don't realize it.

 

2 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Sigh. Alright. Challenge accepted.

2-Star is very soloable, should be 10-ish hours or less.   I've not re-soloed it since it was made easier by converting 5 GMs to mere AVs.

If you want a real challenge, solo a 3-star.  First two missions aren't bad, about an hour each.   The next ones will likely take you more than a day's worth of play each, which is why I say 3-star is not 'practically' solo-able.  (3-Star I did in test-mode so If I ran out of time, lost connection, or needed to otherwise logout, I could quickly pick up where I left off with out burning hours of investment.  I also used a constant supply of small yellows, and an additional 50 small inspirations in email per AV and up to 13 tries per AV.  13 tries at 15m each ~= 3 hours per AV kill.  I reported on Rommy #4 in the test discord one afternoon, I think that was 5 or 6 hours total)

 

[Softcap for new ITF?]

 

Non-AV: Base 45 + ceiling(25,(10 *  floor(0,$Star - 1)))) + ( Tactics Stacking 25 * $Star)

*Base might be 59, here, but I'm pretty sure it's only 45.  (at least some of) the AVs are definitely 64 and that's intentional.

AV: Base 64 + ceiling(25,(10 *  floor(0,$Star - 1)))) + ( Tactics Stacking 25 * ($Star+1))

*There's some funny math with the scaling or tables.  65 intended in the tables translates in-game to 63.75.   the +30 intended translates in-game to only 25.  I don't know the exact translations so I just say !@#$ It and used Ceiling (25, ...), and rounded 63.75 to 64.  I could go pull in-game numbers from each variation, but it's not worth the hassle, it's close enough as

 

4-Star

tldr - 200 defense is the 4-star ITF defense soft-cap

NOTE: If you Leroy, Squishies will have a minimum chance to be hit of 50% even if they are HARD CAPPED at the AT CAPS. ... 4-star has a 2x acc modifer.   That means if you have hard capped squishy defense of 175 and are facing a fully Leroy Room for 200 defense softcap, you will be hit (200 - 175) * 2 = 50% of the time.

• n/a defense - The minimum defense soft cap, assuming you pull, assuming you NEVER get an EB, ... is unreasonable, as EBs back almost every spawn, so just skip this one, It'll get you killed.
• 100 defense - The Average Softcap Assuming you pull and never get 2 spawns and never get any Adds. 
• 139 defense - Rommy's Softcap.
• 200 defense - The soft cap if you decide to use Leroy Jenkins Tactics. 

 

 

 

[If you had to choose 1 Defender to run all the TFs, what defender would you choose ??]

Time/ - Just because it's my favorite, and you can build it like a tank.

FF/ - Same as above.  FF/Water, or FF/Dark is recommended, but even though those are optimal, I actually tend to play the FF/DP instead.

Huntsman - It's half defender half sentinel and there are very few builds that can malfactor as well.

[What would help more on the new ITFs, a Stone Tank or a Illusion/Rad Troller ???]

On 8/28/2022 at 4:43 AM, Hyperstrike said:

It depends entirely on team makeup.

Yeap.  Both.

• Illusion and Plant are both good for covering the Hostless.
• Illusion helps cover tanking as well, but will not substitute completely for an actual tank.   However, there have been successful (if painful) Tank-less 4-star runs.  A Tank is not required.
• Tanks are equally invaluable for providing a solid frame to stack buffs on top of, as well as being superior at taunting.  However, NO TANK will be able to solo a 4-star end to end without support, even if that support is only Incarnates and 7 blasters doing massive damage.  A 4-star with 1 tank and 7 blasters had been done now, it's likely coordinated destinies had a significant influence in that outcome.

 

 

[Scrapper Tier Lists]

@SomeGuy

1600 dps Crab -  Long long ago in a galaxy far far away, crabs could run 1000+ .... now 1600.   If you can, I'd like to see the new build?

[Page 4 experiences so far...]

5 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

Note, this was a 1-star. Most of the players commenting in the MM thread I linked are on 2-4 star and dying heavily even before the last mission.

4-Star everything is 1-shot fodder except the Tank.  The Tank is 2-shot fodder.

 

If even one of your pets pulls a Leroy, you are dead.  This is as much a MM AI issue as a MM Player issue.  Melee MMs are going to get it exponentially worse, they're going to pull aggro no matter what, and the pet is gonna one-shot die transferring that aggro to the MM.   If the MM isn't heavily armored, and buffed, they're gonna one-shot die.  I don't see a good answer here.   My only suggestion would be to remove the pet levels shifts based on stars and then see how well bodyguard compensates when the level shifts are removed.  Remove one level shift per star, so 3 is no level shifts, and 4 star the pets are +1 IF you are +1.

 

[Page 4 experiences so far...]

5 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

I did complete a 1 star ITF, but the Rom fight was frustrating. 

The Barriers?  I could definitely see that.  ...  I'll have to dig up one of my old MMs and test this when I get a chance.

[Page 4 experiences so far...]

6 hours ago, PLVRIZR said:

ran out of real life time after 2.5 hours.

You should plan on the average 4-star PuG ITF running 3 hours and 150 deaths.

[Time vs Force Field]

In general I do not advise trying to build offensive Proc builds for hardmode.  The average proc build will squish like a grape. 

[Time vs Force Field]

Either will work.   Clarion * PBU * FF can pump out 70 defense.

Meanwhile Time can similar with Defense and Tohit, probably something in the 50 defense and 40 to-hit range.   This covers two things you'll need for 4-star.

 

There's a thread already on both Time/ and FF/ .... just look around.

here are two quick builds I have handy.  But you may or may not need to update your mids.

 

 

Time DP Defender - Dahkness 4-Star ITF v4 - [i27].mxd FF Water Soul - Heavy Support 57-74 - Overwatch 1 - [i25].mxd

[The TANKIEST Tank Possible]

11 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

do you have an 801 Rated List?

It's probably in the 801 tank thread:  SR, SD, Inv, Stone, Rad, Bio all rate well in different ways.

It's also complicated, because the list constantly varies depending on what buffs are on the team, and how much strategy you use vs Leroy Jenkins.

It gets even more complicated if you're talking 4-star ITF where the defense softcap can vary from 100 to 200 defense.

• If you're defense armor: Cap your Defense, Resist, and DDR.
• If you're Resist or Heal armor: Cap your resists, Recharge, Healing, Absorb, and Active Mitigations.  Assume without outside buffs your defense will be stripped, so you need to figure out how to stay alive at perma -50 defense.
• 4-star ITF you want to cap your Defense, Resist, Recharge, Healing, Absorb, and Active Mitigations regardless of armor type.  So make friends with a defender, and try to run at least 2 copies of Ageless Radial T4 +ddr on the team.

Quote

Armor Types (Armor Recommendations):

I recommend:  

Defense Armor: EnA (Any AT), Inv/ and SD/ as the Tank Alternatives.    

Resist Armor: RadA (Brutes and Tanks Only).  

Heal Armor: Bio (Any AT, paired with a Defensive Weapon).  

Offense Armor: SD, Bio

 

 

Defense Armors, Expanded and In Order of Durability: EnA (Any AT, Add Resists, Intermediate), SR (Advanced), SD (Intermediate), Inv (Easy). If you’re not picking EnA, I Recommend Inv. Inv is very easy to learn and drive, and very durable. Once you get your feet under you, then you can pick some of the more difficult to drive armors. My personal Favorites are EnA and SD, but I find myself driving EnA and Inv most often.

 

Notes:

• Stone can still be very good, I just very much dislike Stone. I would rank stone somewhere between Inv and SD for durability.
• EnA is not on tanks, if it ever is, I might be forced to move it up or down the ratings, depending on how it's ported.
• Most SR builds do not add the resists required to get it to the rating I give it. SR is also the most difficult to drive if built my way.
• Most SD builds also do not add the resists required to get to the rating I give it. I use all three SD build slots: Defense, Psi-Tank, Proc/Offense.
• Inv is more likely to be built to defensive spec, it's just kinda naturally built that way. It's also so easy to drive. It's pretty much recommends itself.

 

[ITF Hard Mode recommendations]

 

2 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

1 tank 1 Corr (a Kin) and 6 Blasters

I will not be surprised if at some point someone does a 4-star all-blaster team just for the hell of it.  8x Full Tier-4 Incarnates on Full Tier-4 IO builds coordinating and rolling the incarnate powers is an insanely powerful thing.

 

 

 

[I Need A Top-Level FF/Dark build.]

Here's a FF/DP designed for 801 ... you can translate that to /Dark

Then I'll dig up a PBU FF, that you'll also have to translate.

The third variant is an offensive build

 

All these are old builds, but you should be able to translate and fix them up.

 

For the Hardmode ITF You can go either Support or Armor, the STF SLE build will keep YOU very safe, while the PBU build will keep the TEAM very safe.

 

 

FF DP Scorpion Def - STF SLE 1c - [i25].mxd FF Water Soul - Heavy Support 57-74 - Overwatch 1 - [i25].mxd FF Water Dark - Soul Drain - Overwatch 1 - [i25].mxd

[Hmm.. Have you ever tried to solo a Defender???]

Here is a very old, armored build.   It's armored, end-game, non-proc, standard offense.  Intended to be more of a tank than a blaster.

You'll have to adjust it for leveling, I just do that kind of thing on the fly.  swapping sets around and using catalyzed beginner sets, and temp powers or even swapping powers too.

I'd say pickup Kinetic Dampeners they are cheap-ish, and the Status Protection Amps if you can afford them but amps are expensive.

 

 

Rad Rad Scorpion Defender - Alpha 1 - [i25].mxd

[Hmm.. Have you ever tried to solo a Defender???]

Go for it.  I solo a +4x8 ITF with all my characters (except the petless mm).

 

[The TANKIEST Tank Possible]

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Would you please describe in detail what you mean in regards to driving difficulty? I'm not disagreeing at all, but I think a lot of folks, including myself, would greatly enjoy reading about this in much higher detail.

Pretend the character is a Mech, and you're the pilot.   I trip over my own feet 12 out of 13 times when I'm driving an SR model Mech.   On the other hand, I'm a top 1% driver of the EnA Model Mech.   Some guys drive dune buggies, some guys drive Formula 1.  That Formula 1 driver might must end upside down in a creek when you put him in a dune buggy in the mountains.

 

Quote

unless you're diving face first into 801.6+ solo without a plan.

@Pizzamurai I was driving that particular SR into 801.D (difficulty 13).  It was absolutely beautiful on test #13 ... and we are not going to discuss the first 12 test runs.