FDR's Think Tank

You know, the simple solution is to make the next Server to open a "Hardcore" mode server. Anything that people want as far as rollbacks to Convenience can be done there, you can remove the P2W Stores, you can put in limitations to your hearts content. If it's the official Hardcore Server, people understand that by going there, they are agreeing to have less convenience in game. You could even add fun little events where the Monorail might be shut down to specific areas, perhaps areas having events, for security. You'd bring back Taxi Bot characters, and how! On a different note... I am also excited by the idea of Making Perez Park a Functional traveled place again... why not sell real estate around the park? You could bring back Prestige and have it so major Super Groups could bid for physical locations at the Park so they aren't just a shared Portal. People could visit the lobby of Supergroups who have a building and get a guided tour with references to team member's backstories. It would be big with the RP community, I bet. It would be really neat to have Team Logos adorning the buildings and perhaps some sprucing up..., Although I can't think of what the Villain's version would be.... Edit idea: Would it be impossible for Arachnos to be part of the effort to rebuild around Perez Park? It could be a PvPlite Zone where Heroes and Villains can't attack each other, but they can attack the opposing Longbow/Arachnos Security Patrols... whichever applies. How many Patrols there are of each is determined by building ownership, which is determined by the market. Feel free to jack this idea.

Pair the set down to a power pool set. Think of it as 5 to 6 powers... maybe a specific power like Force of Will Jump that has a secondary power while active. It could even be one of the Prestige Power Pools, incompatible with the other planned sets. Then the numbers aren't such a crunch and anyone can use it to toughen up. Honestly, since they gave everyone the Basic Fitness Power Pool for free, there has been less ways to differentiate between builds. I wouldn't mind an advanced Fitness set... but this sounds like fun too! It could be like of the opposite of Boxing.... defensive powers that increase your melee abilities. Since many classes with defense take extra defensive powers anyway, this would simply give them different ways of reaching defensive softcaps and caps.

Do the sets have to be exactly the same, or is there room for variation as necessary between Archetypes? Defender Trick Arrow was nerfed long before it was given to Masterminds and Controllers as a Secondary. You can probably leave it alone as a secondary to the other Archetypes, I haven't seen Masterminds complaining their first Secondary power is Useless Net Arrow... they have pets that can all take advantage of situations created by the net. The Defender Doesn't. Many Controllers have similar "footlockers". Even if you were going to argue that as a Secondary, Trick Arrow is lacking... the Balance Solution for a Primary probably shouldn't be exactly the same as for a secondary.

I stand corrected.

Giving the set more synergies doesn't make it "MORE" dependent on combos. It makes it less dependent on desperately needing a BUFF. It's not particularly good right now and it doesn't even have anything beyond ONE combo. So I would rather have a set more dependent on combos that works than a set that everyone agrees is underpowered and reliant on people tolerating a person who stubbornly plays it. A team of Rad Defenders being better at every aspect than a Team of Trick Arrow Defenders simply highlights how nerfed Trick Arrow is. It doesn't prove that combos aren't the ultimate solution to making the set exciting to play. It doesn't force you to play in a specific order to give it more synergies (Unless you add the optional Fire melting Ice... which was only one suggestion.) What it DOES do is give OTHER team members opportunities to interact with what a Trick Arrow Defender is doing... meaning that combat isn't a grindy slog of just targeting the same stuff over and over. It gives players more options about how they interact with the world. That's why Oil Arrow keeps bringing people in, despite the set being really weak. It's FUN to play with. Trick Arrow could be about setting up opportunities for Teamwork that everyone enjoys... Again, I encourage them to playtest raw powerups first for the set. However, even if you ignore what is fun... I doubt a raw powerup will be a good solution. There is a reason the nerfing happened in the first place. They underestimated a pure debuff defender. Yes, yes, they haven't done anything about Radiation... but I don't think this thread is about Radiation being overpowered or needing to be nerfed. I have to ask, if repairing Trick Arrow is so simple, how come they never got around to it? What possible reason could they have had for nerfing the set to begin with?

I am surprised that anyone would disagree with what the Defender Archetype Role is... it's fairly clear. The Grey area has always been Trick Arrow, which had a short time of intense glory before the old Devs nerfed it into controversial oblivion. I don't see synergy bonuses as being at the cost of the set when most people already agree the set is too weak. Anything that increases the utility of the set is of benefit and we really don't know how it will play out until it's done. Except... don't we already know exactly how it will play out if we just give defenders more flat out power? They have plenty of other solo capable Archer builds now... So the question isn't if Trick Arrow needs improvement. The question is do they improve it so it's a blaster that gets Stamina Discounts when the team is low on health... or do they go more in depth and set it apart by highlighting the benefit of Defenders working with other players, as all other defender sets do already? I wasn't saying that the set needs to be made weaker to make room for the combos. I was saying the combos would be largely added on top of a set that seems underpowered. So the first step is to test the easy solution of changing Entanglement Arrow... If it gets the set closer to balance, then you can do a few small tweaks instead of something complex like more combo bonuses. However, if Electrified Net, or Healing Aura Net, or Some sort of rapid or mass entanglement arrow DOESN'T get Trick Arrow at least close to balanced.... What then? I don't think its worth it rebalancing the set so it's not such a slog at soloing without being absurd when used in tandem with other Trick Arrows. I don't think Trick Arrows should be given a hard limit on working with each other either, eliminating the ability to stack. If you focus on Synergies with other powersets, you are only lightly suggesting they team up with a variety of people. Maybe the real solution for long term balance of powersets needs to be tied to Unique Enhancements that are tied to specific powersets, rather than origins. What if, rather than forcing all trick arrow players into a new meta, you gently give them a variety of options they can salvage, invent, and discover for their arrows? If it worked, they could try balancing other powersets with different enhancement options too, giving players more variety in build choices.

I really really missed arguing with people in forums about how to "fix" the Trick Arrow set after the first nerfing of it from which it never really recovered. It's great to see people so passionate about Archery! I think it's core to remember Defender Archetypes are supposed to be TEAM PLAYERS. Perhaps it's easy to forget that since this game is largely cooperative... but the Defender is supposed to be an extra layer of that. Obviously people who buff others or heal others have that supportive nature built right into the playstyle. Trick Arrow is unique in the way that it doesn't Heal or Buff any team members on it's own. This is what set it apart from other Defenders and what lead to it getting nerfed. Early teams of Trick Arrow Defenders were grossly effective. We can probably all agree the intention was for Trick Arrows to work with other players... which is why I suggested each Trick Arrow having a gimmick that needs a specific element to set it off. What I proposed was not a simple solution... but it's important to remember that the powerset really challenges the very bone structure of the game. If they can sort out Trick Arrow so it relies sufficiently on other players (Not also playing identical trick arrow builds) to shine, then I think they can even explore other similar debuff/offensive tilt defenders in the future. Or realize it's too much work to try that again. Either way... For simplicity, they should definitely beta test the Electric Net Swap out for Net Arrow... but I think most Trick Arrow Defenders would trade soloing speed for more teamwork gimmicks. Soloing with Trick Arrow Defenders is a real grind and moot now that you can do full archer Blasters or Arrow Sentinels. People who want to play the solo archer type shouldn't be doing a Defender. In the end, Game Balance has long been thrown out the window for City of Heroes. NCSoft stopped trying to balance it once they stopped working on the Arenas and it's not the factor that should be playtested. You want it to be FUN to play, but no so grossly overpowered that nobody plays anything else. That's why combo effects that require different elements to interact with them to fully unlock the potential are, in my opinion, the best way to go for Trick Arrow Defenders. I personally have many obsessed ideas for a truly balanced Superhero themed MMO with minimal rebalancing ever needed while expansions are added, but I would never waste time arguing this game be rebuilt to incorporate those concepts.

You are probably right, but people might feel like having two electric arrows is unbalanced. It's curious they didn't already make the change, in some ways. You could always make it a constricting wire net that does lethal instead of electric if there is a Dev reason not to give Defenders the electrified net. Or maybe they could simply reduce the recharge at high levels so you could spam net arrows. Arrows, as a set, already use very little endurance. If High Level players were able to net individual targets rapidly, then they might start leaning on the defender endurance reduction. As it stands, Arrow Defenders rarely look at endurance. Many take high cost pool powers to take advantage of the extra stamina.

With the Epic Archetype, isn't it enough to simply expand the Primary and Secondary Power Pools So that there is at least 2 separate playstyles possible depending on power choices? The other possibility for a Speedster Archetype is to give them a larger autoproc range for their melee attacks... when they activate... say... a punch, they automatically teleport (which looks like superspeed vanishing and reappearing) next to the target and strike. With this you could sorta see two types of speedsters... One runs up and unloads melee attacks on his foe in rapid succession, then runs back to a safe distance to wait for the recharge on his strikes. The other dances around hitting one foe, then another, then another... teleporting/super speeding all over the battlefield... luring the foes into some sort of trap, be it constructed, teamwork ambush, or environmental. If the speedster is caught off guard recharging or slowed/stopped on the battlefield... their glass jaw will get them in relatively deep trouble. This somewhat solves the issue of the super speed set actually requiring the player to be able to cognitively make choices while moving super fast in game... They can still have a fast run speed travel power, but it wouldn't be necessary or even practical for actual combat. The superspeed "movement" is built into their attack powers, giving them some benefits of ranged for melee strikes, but putting them in danger as they draw aggro and try to keep dodging incoming strikes. AoE hits would be a weakness for the speedster.... if the enemy can time it well. Perhaps One Speedster build would have a certain amount of "Autododges" before they aren't able to react and dodge AoE strikes (This would then take actual resting to recharge.) The other build would focus on moving around too much to get caught in a blast. You could call these each "The Prodigy" and "The Jester" style Speedsters, respectively. Edit: On further Speculation, I thought up two different sorts of Speedsters, but they would need a different inherent from the "The Prodigy" and "The Jester" style. In a way, these are dashers and crashers. These types could use unique AoE effects that create a zone based on how or where they move. It would be sort of like the Tron Bikes... a chasing effect. The First one, the crasher or... "The Bullet" would have a Defensive/Disruptive area in a tight area around him and following him. The longer he runs, the more potent the effect until he builds up enough charge to activate an Alpha Strike "Crash" ability that zeros out the momentum and deals great damage in an AoE strike. "The Bullet" would then need to duke it out with survivors... or escape and try to get another ambush in. The Second one, the dasher... or "The Train" would be able to set different damage types that their dash aura generates... anyone they run by or that gets caught in their trail will take damage over time that scales to how long "The Train" has been dashing. If someone manages to knock "The Train" down or away, it's momentum is killed and it's damage aura vanishes. They have to rely on their basic attacks or attempt to escape and start their dash again. Both of these Archetypes generate momentum as they move, and they both would be constantly draining their endurance, needing to find places to take a breather between battles. However, The Bullet is nearly unstoppable until they choose to strike and fairs better in melee combat when out of momentum... While The Train has more consistent damage during momentum and dreads being stopped. I don't see how The Prodigy, The Jester, The Bullet, and The Train could share an Archetype, but it would be awesome if they could. Maybe the fork is when they get their inherent since there are basically two major types here. Obviously, I don't really see the point in a speedster archetype with purely long ranged attacks.... you can run a blaster with travel power speed if you want that. The Speedsters in the comics get close and personal, risking themselves while playing fast and loose. They don't have time to aim a shot.

Belaboring the point, everyone knows that beyond the early game, the entangling arrow is both critically lacking and largely redundant. People keep talking about a heal power... if you are gonna alter one power and give it heal, make it entangling arrow. The heal effect can be weaker early game, but more potent late game as you struggle to find a reason to USE entangling arrow. Also consider how tactically fun it would be to launch an arrow at an enemy that creates an AoE heal for nearby allies. It may force the Trick Arrow user to consider how to deploy the arrow on a deeper level than most heals and most binds. The Mass Entangling Arrow is a neat alternative as well, but sounds really overpowering early game. You could always scale the powers, similar to how Mastermind start off being able to summon one basic pet... and eventually are able to summon three. This would have a side effect of the recharge time also getting heavier as entangling arrow grows in obnoxious power. Trick Arrow should definitely be all about the combo/collaborative effects. These effects should be spread out so that different attack powersets have different combos they can pull off with Trick Arrows. Obviously, Any set with a fire attack for defenders allows for the oil explosion combo... but some more esoteric ideas shouldn't be impossible to create. So here is a hypothetical that factors nothing about what it would take to program these changes in.... Entangling Arrow - AoE Heal around Entangled Enemy - On it's own, this is hugely collaborative and tactical above the current Standard. Flash Arrow - Blinds Enemies - Blinded enemies should be especially vulnerable to darkness. This could be weakened defense to dark damage, or a chance to extend blindness when hit by a dark attack. (Dark Combo) Glue Arrow- Slows Enemies with Military Grade Adhesive - This could increase the effectiveness of Radiation based attacks, creating an AoE Radiation effect inside the glued area when mobs are hit with Radiation. The Glue can Glow in the dark when irradiated! (Radiation Combo) Ice Arrow- Bind and lockdown - No need to get fancy, Cold strikes could extend this lockdown, but for balance, flame based attacks would shorten the duration of the hold. This would make team communication essential, but also give entangling arrow a benefit when working with fire users. (Ice Combo/Fire anticombo) Poison Gas Arrow- Sleep effect- Any effect that creates a gale or wind will grossly expand the range of this knockout gas, while reducing the time it keeps targets asleep. This may require persistence of the gas effect to be toggled... and wind/gale effects are rather obnoxious in some ways right now but if you could target your allies poison gas cloud and get a mass sleepzone instead, it would be a load of fun. (Wind/Storm/Blowback Combo) Acid Arrow- Toxic DoT AoE - Earthen Alchemy... when combing with earth effects, this acid can grow more corrosive and deal extra DoT. Earth Strike Players can attack acid to boost acidity. (Earth Combo) Disruption Arrow- Resistance Debuff Ranged AoE - Enemies disoriented by this arrow can become especially more susceptible to confusion and psychic based attacks. (Psychic/Illusion Combo) Oil Slick Arrow - Slip Zone - Explosive ignition (Fire, flame arrow, Flamethrower Combo... and Energy too?) EMP Arrow - AoE Hold, bonus vs. Robots - Charge up! When Activated in proximity to an ally with electrical/energy powers, they will charge the arrow before it launches... The pause for this might be extended and there might be a maximum number of allies that can improve the arrow or diminishing returns. (Electric/Energy Combo)

If you are gonna give players the ability to create Arch-Foe type characters, you have to create a corresponding set of critical weaknesses/kryptonites they have to contend with. It could be a self stun after an alpha strike, it could be a glaring elemental weakness, it could be a cumulative chance to attract the ire of enemy organizations during battle, creating a critical time element. Sorta like the Nebulas for the Kheldians, but something player characters may be able exploit with the right cleverness or luck. But that's just my opinion. This game isn't especially competitive, so you can get away with broken stuff for longer than you can in other MMOS. This sounds really fun, just for the flexibility... and as I remember it, some of the Game Devs had special characters with unconventional powerset arrangements. Manticore, from what I heard, was able to use Archery as his primary and Trick Arrows as his secondary, even though he was a Defender. Some Legacy players may have remembered his battle cry when some of the major events were going on and he was playing live. I won't repeat it here. I will say, I am frightened by the idea of someone pairing a Mastermind's Pet Power with the Controller Illusion Set and flooding the screen with hordes of pets. You could be a One Man Army! However, if that's the most obnoxious result of this endeavor, I can live with that. I am not even certain if that's possible with what you outlined, since those are technically two Power Sets that are only currently available as Primary Power Sets. Most of the power sets aren't as clearly defined as "Primary Only" as those two. I saw People already addressed the issue with duplicate Secondaries functions.... no Double armor builds! As to the issue with Farming your way to level 100, you could always also require a certain amount of badges, or require the player reach level 100 and have completed a set number/selection of major story threads, It's not like you can stop the farming, but you don't have to leave in a perverse incentive to do it that way specifically. As to the issue with "Top Performing Combos" I have a different solution to rebalancing all the power sets. Phase out old NPC mob types and introduce new types that are specifically tailored to deal with overplayed combos. If you spread it out over the five Origin types with the most popular Origin Type getting the Most Popular Counter Mob, and then going round robin from there, you can keep players engaged in the game and trying different toons out. You can rotate certain mobs back in, eventually, if you get a metagame chase going. This is somewhat similar to the Kheldian hunters, but its not like they haven't changed mobs in mass before. I suppose it would need to be divided by level category as well. The amount of this that is actually done can also be balanced against how critically dire the imbalance is. No point in doing anything about it if the only people who notice are the MinMaxers. The game really is ripe for more Prestige Archetypes now that they don't have the company being hypercritical of all attempts to come up with something. It's a downside that they don't have a team working on graphics, but the special archetypes are mostly power set rearrangements and very subtle team buffs anyway. It's definitely not impossible to create new combinations of existing powers/power sets that give players a new playstyle. Special/Prestige Archetypes we dream of: -Praetorians- We need an excuse to return to and even start new characters in Rogue other than anti-social tendencies. The stories are fun and they have lots of hidden gems and split choices. You can't make Kheldians or Arachnos in Praetor for obvious reasons... ~Praetorian Loyalist- A Loyalist Elite Trooper with equipment to put him on par with Powers Division Forces. They have power lockouts, energy armor, clockwork pets, and various energy blasters... within the range of how you built it. Capture Brutes and Netgunner Captains. ~Praetorian Resistance- A Resistance Subversive who deals in blackmarket tech and homemade ordinance. They have disruptive AoE, defense that keeps them mobile/stealth, hacked clockwork pets, and various firearms. Saboteurs and Stealth Snipers. ~Praetorian Hamidonoid- An unusual Hamidon Mutant that has developed independence for the purposes of infiltration. Hamidoniods have access to a wide variety of elemental/nature powers making them each unique and difficult to predict. -Ourobos/Nemesis Soldier- Why should Arachnos get all the fun? Steampunk Hessian Soldiers? Check. Poison Gas weapons to violate International Treaties? Double Check. Strange Anagrams and other Cryptic References to Sinister Intentions? Spoiler Alert. Time Tricksters and Toxic Troopers. -Giant Size Archetype- This might be better off as a Power Pool powerset, but I will throw it out there anyway. Sure, we can have characters that are 8 Feet Tall.... but there are a HUGE number of HUGE Superheroes. I get it, these powers don't work indoors, and that cuts out about half the game. On the otherhand, even if they only go 1/2 as big or 1/4 as big indoors getting locked out of the true strength of the archetype for tight quarters missions, you can still have fun trying to USE the powers effectively in the areas where you have room to grow. It's kinda like a built in weakness... and the characters do really well in open space. Of course, this is all coming from a gushing player's perspective. It's important to acknowledge to two big problems with Super Growth powers. First, it would be difficult to balance with the game world and mission system. Secondly, It could be truly obnoxious having players run around with giant characters in game. Perhaps the difficulty of carrying a character who is only useful half the time would make the Giant Characters in a Super Group a sort of flex on what the team can pull off and the sacrifice everyone made to get there. You could also give them a negative "There's only room for one" ability that limits Giant Growth to one per team. Maybe you could have a Giant Size Archetype that can get VERY big.... and a Giant Power Pool set that is similar to concealment (Only one active) and is only tall enough to get trapped in two floor indoor spaces if they don't shrink back. In my mind, Giants would get large hitpoint bonuses, but are also much easier to hit, with a weakness for critical hits. Their attacks would have the extended range appropriate to their size and gain AoE/expand existing AoE, but would be easier to dodge, since their movements are telegraphed to everyone. There are lots of ways to explore this, but I don't know the limitations since I remember the NCSoft team being especially vague about why THEY didn't want to try to do it.