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Galaxy Brain

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Everything posted by Galaxy Brain

  1. That is a big concern for Tankers, tho with the changes in the pipeline who knows how behaviors will change... If you swing first though, or just hit any target in an area even in a team setting you should still be fighting with Momentum up more often than its down when it comes to combat time unless your team is just shredding through everything in it's path then its the buff/debuff scenario or Incarnates more than likely.
  2. Missing due to other players killing the enemy isn't unique to TW though. Just play any PUG where people spam Judgements, or earlier where nukes or strong AoEs are whipped around. This may be coming from a biased perspective, but it seems in that example you are pulling first and swinging second where I generally play with Brutes or Scrappers that swing first. That said, that is a very big concern for Tankers using the set who may not be swinging first to get momentum rolling outside of Build Momentum. What did you run your test on for EM vs TW? Also, the sheets I have presented show what is possible outside of even secondary sets, and muliple posts in this thread have also given their in-game experiences with TW outside of Pylons that back up the feeling that it is performing very highly.
  3. This is what I was saying earlier as well. TW *by itself* outperforms other sets when looked at by themselves as well. When paired with the same secondaries, the TW should come out on top in most cases outside specific pairings / situations. What was your exact attack chains on both?
  4. I havent brought up /Bio as a point other than to say it accentuates TW's strengths, but then it does so with every other melee pairing and even blast pairing with Sentinels. Bio should also be looked at for sure, but in the same vein TW outperforms other primaries in most circumstances but not to the same degree that Bio boosts essentially any set it is paired with. When it comes to farming specific content this becomes a question of efficiency as opposed to potential. Spines has another damage aura and easier to use AoEs that lend it well to farming content made for that combo, and has no resource via Momentum to take into account when doing mission after mission after mission that makes it friendlier to use. If you're gonna be farming day in and day out, you'll gravitate to the easier option that also gets great output. TW requires more skill to use, but its not like you are inputting a frame-perfect Shakunetsu Hadoken to start it up every 5 seconds. Its also just one measuring stick much like how in your EM example it was able to output more ST dps when the TW by your omission was not built to lean into ST as much, but even still it came within 10% of a set that's entire identity is ST damage. Lets use that even, TW can come within 10% of the raw DPS of EM's ST dps while unquestionably having far more AoE capability and other perks, that alone is an issue for both sets.
  5. This is going into outside meta, but Spine/Fire is much easier to play and *farm* with given specific content catered to it. When you can easily mop up a farm catered to your set with less effort, people will gravitate to that even if other sets can crank out more DPS that takes more attention. TW/Fire will be able to do much more content than Spines/Fire will, but Spine/Fire is what is advertised as the AE farming build to use to make bank and people will flock to it. I dont think I have actually seen one in the wild outside of the AE lobby lol.
  6. Because spines/fire is ez pz farming in hyper specific content. Take a spines/fire to anywhere else and it's not nearly as good.
  7. Hopeling beat me to it, but @Morgrum those stats reflect popularity and not raw effectiveness. That's why you see a million inv/ss tankers and claw/regens, or theme/theme pairings.
  8. That's the idea. It over performs when played well and its weak points in my experience are not that detracting when you play around it. At high lvl it performs even better, and cutting that back a smidge without effecting the feel or low level (in all senses) play would be best to keep it in line with other sets. Edit: It is amazing for ST, but when arguing for general play that will always have multiple targets for the majority of combat. Given multiple targets, the risk of missing an opener and thus delaying momentum is mitigated greatly. On a Single Target the chance is higher, but assuming that 1/5 attacks is a slow one, and you have a 5% chance to miss per swing... the odds that you miss the opener is somewhere around 1% over time?
  9. It isnt, but it is far easier to get momentum going in a crowd as you just need to hit 1 target with an AoE opener, and then go to town. It was brought up that it sucks to miss getting momentum going, but the set has a couple of AoE attacks to mitigate not getting momentum + a self buff to give it again. So in average gameplay where you are usually fighting more than 1 target, I have found it trivial to get momentum started. Against a single target it can suck if you whiff for sure, but its rare that I have found myself out of momentum for long in any fight.
  10. I play it too. I had a 50 tw/fire on live, and a tw/rad and tw/wp here in HC. Managing momentum if you have a few targets is not hard to do.
  11. TW does not have as big a weakness as you think, aside from needing to pay a bit more attention to what attacks you queue up. As pointed out throughout the thread it has much more positive than negative and the built in weakness is only sometimes relevant. This is without IOs.
  12. Which is why the title, again, is "slap on the wrist" to curb the high end performance which is a big gap compared to other high performance sets. As for herding and missing targets, that is the same issue most any melee set faces if they run away / etc. Opening with an AoE (say, defensive sweep) against more than 1 target in range greatly increases your odds of getting momentum as the odds of missing more than 1 target at once are much slimmer than missing an ST attack. If its nerfed but still the best, it would still be used. All I am asking is that it be tuned down a smidge to curb the higher end performance where it feels way better than any other set.
  13. We have brought up that TW itself has higher performance than other sets across ATs, not just brutes and not just with Bio, though bio does accentuate its strengths in a massive way.
  14. I think this will need to be it's own thread, but it sounds like a worthwhile effort if we can gather a set of data points that would be gathered. It happened for me that way lol. I can solo x3 at that lvl on my TW/Rad, and my TW/WP as well. Several sets have an endurance mitigation tool in them that I admit can overly help with TW downtime, but fight to fight you can often have good results even early on. Note I said "good", not amazing/OP/etc. But the traits TW has makes it already very good with little true weaknesses, and as you add outside effects (via teams, IOs, secondary sets, etc) the effectiveness of the set goes up and up.
  15. TW becomes "good" once you get to lvl 15~16ish (Brute/Scrap). By then you have a few slots in the TW powers, and have 2 cones, 2 st attacks, probably Build Momentum as well as some armor. The slotting can net you the basics for Acc / End early on, and you have two cones to handle riff raff which either give bonus Smashing and melee def (great vs most content) or have a great chance to knock down multiple foes. Given these are AoEs, it is fare more forgiving than most other Parries or Knockdown powers for self defense as the odds of missing all targets in range are slimmer than when you swing for 1 target and roll the dice early on, the only exception is with Staff Fighting which gets Guarded Spin, as well as Eye of the Storm early on. You also have a way to lower def on a single target, and another ST knockdown with hefty damage, but locked behind momentum. In most fights, you can swing your cone attacks in a group and damage everything in front of you, smack an LT or Boss with the STs, and swing the cones again while being relatively safe, and dealing good damage to a group. This is a nice spot early on, and only gets better as you get more slots and powers. On its own, it is fine overall. It is the best damaging melee set, but comes with the drawback of higher end costs / periods of sluggishness. Though as brought up in this thread the "slow" times are not actually that slow compared to other such heavy hitters, and by swinging cones your odds of hitting just 1 target to gain momentum is very high as each target in the area has its own hit chance and the odds of missing multiple people at once are slimmer than ST. Once you get momentum up, you become very fluid and can deal big damage quickly on top of the other benefits TW enjoys from an AoE parry, Knockdowns, and so on. It is easy to gain momentum on average if you open with an AoE on different targets, which means you are slow much less often than you are fast which leaves End as the only issue with the set that can be supplemented by slotting early on, blues, or simply by killing fast / keeping enemies bounced off the ground and living through to rest up a bit. In my experience, the drawbacks of the set don't really play out as intended and you get much more positive in the trade, on top of side effects which other high-damage sets don't usually get on many powers.
  16. I'd rather pet melee attacks at least be good. The AI tweaks out if they dont have a melee attack it seems, so maybe just make them all have a rifle butt that can cause a solid stun over a generic brawl
  17. My in game experience with TW has it outperform other primaries while leveling and at max level, and this is without /bio or heavy IO use outside of the standard common slotting / performance shifter that *everyone* takes. When I said that it takes away from other sets, this is more a personal anecdote but others have mentioned it in the thread as well, going as far as getting tells that they are not fun to team with. When I play my TW and then try another weapon set... even with needing to set up momentum it just feels better. You get more reach, hit harder with generally more AoEs that hit wide areas, and have more reliable crowd control and buff/debuff due to wide area hits / etc. In general combat you usually only throw out a slow attack every 5th swing or so, which matches up with other sets imo where you usually rotate in a big hitter that is slow while your fast attacks recharge. The difference with TW is that it's all big hitters. As for soloing TFs and AVs, melee ATs can do this as well as others. Itd be interesting to get numbers on what builds can do it and if any are possible without heavy slotting.... Though GM hunting is still a function of game mechanics stacking up vs those specific targets more often than not. Buff / Debuff is broken in this game via stacking between support sets, but that is a titanic can of worms that goes far beyond any one set or AT. On a seperate but relevant note: @GM Sijin, I wonder if it's possible to datamine what IOs are commonly taken and slotted and compared to power combos? I know the game is *not* balanced around IO slotting, but looking into what % of X builds use certain IOs, such as the ever popular +end/recovery procs, or LotG, etc, could be interesting to see how prevalent the slotting of them really are when it comes to performance.
  18. All solid ideas, but I think brawl cannot be removed. 😞
  19. It's cool, but it is such a gimmick that comparing that to a set that performs above where it should is apples and oranges. GM soloing does not net great rewards over time, and is mechanically not very transferable to other facets of gameplay due to how they get taken down vs normal mobbing. TW on the other hand had great performance across the board compared to other melee sets. I do think other sets do need buffs, but as somebody else said earlier we do need some sort of "line" to balance around and currently TW feels above where that should be by an inch, while most other top tier sets are about at the line.
  20. Soloing GMs is out of intended balance but it is such an outlier due to game mechanics, and it also is overall inefficient to leveling/ rewards / general gameflow to be considered a gimmick.
  21. This one from the scrapper forums has more notes about that: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1av2vWL9UVgGw183BbjFNweJze7N5P3Tn8tYSppdFQgE/edit?usp=drivesdk
  22. Not bringing down to match, just bringing the gap down. It's ok of it's still the best but the gap is noticable thus the title of "slap on the wrist". I have other threads detailing how I'd like to see sets brought up of modernized where needed, as well as a thread dedicated to discussing ways to add difficulty options. The latter I feel is important as the game is very easy to get into and play at a basic level, but then it doesnt get much harder as the ability to become better far outpaces what content throws at you outside of specific circumstance, especially while teamed. I would rather have well designed sets and challenges than just bigger numbers on sets + bigger hp to chew through.
  23. I mean sorta, though they would still have non-combat regen and even faster out of combat. Either way, this is not feasible due to how combat is tracked in game 😕
  24. I havent been able to reply to this for quite some time, but what had originally stood out was this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19VuZ9zJ_8eKN11JytgaK9mt9Fy-8pjANopb-FGh68Uw/edit?usp=drivesdk This spreadsheet attempts to detail DPS at maximum recharge as a sort of baseline of "max potential" where you can have the most optimal attack chains. TW is between 15-30% better than any other ST set per AT when optimized, and always in the top half for AoE. No other set on that list has such a massive jump in a category except for Plant Control's AoE which has a bunch of odds and ends weirdness with AoE confuse and creepers. As for feeling, you can tell that TW hits very very hard and has a ton of perks even early on compared to other melee sets. You start with a cone that gives +def, a cone that reliably knocks crowds of enemies down and both have extended range, and hard hitting ST attacks that can debuff res and def, or just bonk a guy incredibly hard and fast with momentum. Yeah, it sucks if you miss and have to get momentum going again but the pause is not *that* long and in combat I'd say you are in your momentum state for well over half the time. In a perfect scenario, not even perfect as in the 500% rech and infinite endurance model, having 1 slow attack and 4 fast attacks sounds about right to where you get more uptime of being boosted than being slow. The immediate burst of DPA and dps you get is one thing, but the secondary effects of TW are another with debuffs, self buffs, and soft control on top of boosted melee range. You can see that there are other sets in that sheet per AT that are top tier across ST and AoE, but usually they do not sit so far above the pack on average while also having a ton of side effects to boot. It feels great to play and only gets more fun and smash as you go... but the performance of it takes away from the enjoyment of other sets. As mentioned, why play BS over TW other than you can pair it with shield? You get your parry in a cone, and single attacks outperform the best attack chain in that set. Bringing it down a notch at the higher end while not affecting the average game experience for it would not be like the gutting EM got, but more just keep the power level in check a bit instead of creeping everything else to match it.
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